Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-12-04 09:31, Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: > After mastering OOP and Object Persistence, the next thing > developers need to conquer is how to present their business objects > in the GUI ... Quoted out of context. That article was part of a series on Design Patterns published in a

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-12-05 07:06, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: This also is your opinion, I don't think you are so absolutely right as your statements allways sound.:-) At least I sound good. ;-) In MSEgui the DB-components work very well, are convenient and fast and I'll have to take your word

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Tuesday 05 December 2017 13:01:43 Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: > On 05.12.2017 12:16, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: > > What is wrong with TDBGrid??? > > As I quoted, Graeme claims it's slow. > I doubt it. At least the MSEgui DB-grids are not slow. DB-grids get the data from

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 05.12.2017 12:16, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: What is wrong with TDBGrid??? As I quoted, Graeme claims it's slow. -Michael -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Tuesday 05 December 2017 09:41:30 Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: > > While for perfect performance / clearness / portability / ... , DBGrid > supposedly should not be used in a production release, it might be very > helpful when designing an application. > What is wrong with TDBGrid???

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 05.12.2017 00:50, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: DBGrid behaves slightly different to TStringGrid, and is slow. While for perfect performance / clearness / portability / ... , DBGrid supposedly should not be used in a production release, it might be very helpful when designing an

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Tuesday 05 December 2017 00:50:19 Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: > On 2017-12-02 14:48, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote: > > I think you misunderstand me. I said "RAD is the best way to code a > > GUI", the visual part, not the business rules. > > For that you just need a

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-12-02 14:48, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote: I think you misunderstand me. I said "RAD is the best way to code a GUI", the visual part, not the business rules. For that you just need a visual form designer. RAD normally entails a whole lot else like hooking into events (in

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 01.12.2017 20:43, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: On 2017-12-01 13:33, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote: I believe RAD is the best way to code a GUI I'll even disagree with that - somewhat. :)    http://geldenhuys.co.uk/articles/model-gui-mediator.pdf The article

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: > On 2017-12-01 13:33, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote: >> >> I believe RAD is the best way to code a GUI > > > I'll even disagree with that - somewhat. :) > >

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

In my personal experience the "RAD" approach used by Delphi, Lazarus and old VB (i'm not sure if proper RAD really was about what you see in those products and not something Borland and Microsoft's marketing departments decided to use because it was cool at the time) is the fastest and often best

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-12-01 13:33, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus wrote: I believe RAD is the best way to code a GUI I'll even disagree with that - somewhat. :) http://geldenhuys.co.uk/articles/model-gui-mediator.pdf With Model-GUI-Mediator (think MVC or MVP design patterns but for modern

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 6:49 AM, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus wrote: > > I don't believe you can give a general rule. The tool must be appropriate > for the application. The word "programming" includes an universe of non > compatible things. Something like "mechanical

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Friday 01 December 2017 09:47:04 Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: > On 01.12.2017 08:22, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: > > For me Delphi is not the best RAD environment and therefore > > developments made with Delphi should not be used to disqualify RAD as > > a whole. > > Which are

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 5:22 AM, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: > On Friday 01 December 2017 08:01:06 Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: >> On 2017-12-01 06:42, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: >> > That is your opinion, my opinion is that RAD is the most

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 5:01 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: > On 2017-12-01 06:42, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: >> >> That is your opinion, my opinion is that RAD is the most productive >> development technology for most of the projects if done

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

Il 01/12/2017 08:01, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus ha scritto: And your last 3 words is the most important part - "if done right". In my 20+ years of using Delphi, I can count of one hand how many company products I've seen "done right" using the RAD style approach. And I've worked at plenty

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 01.12.2017 08:22, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: For me Delphi is not the best RAD environment and therefore developments made with Delphi should not be used to disqualify RAD as a whole. Which are there other than Delphi and its siblings ? -Michael --

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 01.12.2017 07:42, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: separating of GUI and business logic is perfectly possible with RAD. Yep. But you need to apply this discipline to yourself right from start of the project, as doing this afterwards is tedious. Unfortunately many projects arise from

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Friday 01 December 2017 08:01:06 Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: > On 2017-12-01 06:42, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: > > That is your opinion, my opinion is that RAD is the most productive > > development technology for most of the projects if done right, > > And your last 3 words

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-12-01 06:42, Martin Schreiber via Lazarus wrote: That is your opinion, my opinion is that RAD is the most productive development technology for most of the projects if done right, And your last 3 words is the most important part - "if done right". In my 20+ years of using Delphi, I

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Friday 01 December 2017 00:30:05 Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: > On 2017-11-30 11:46, Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: > > Nonetheless, IMHO RAD is a great way to start programming, as you > > immediately and painlessly can see (visualize) what your "business > > RAD should only be

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-11-30 11:46, Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: Nonetheless, IMHO RAD is a great way to start programming, as you immediately and painlessly can see (visualize) what your "business RAD should only be used for prototyping. ie: once the prototype is done and not needed, bin the code.

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 30.11.2017 12:09, el es via Lazarus wrote: It is not easy to break free from old, ... programming practices Nonetheless, IMHO RAD is a great way to start programming, as you immediately and painlessly can see (visualize) what your "business logic" software does and easily set parameters

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 29/11/17 23:02, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: > On 2017-11-28 09:02, Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: >> and support for Delphi-typical RAD-style development. > > RAD style development is highly overrated - I wish you can see the > mess I'm looking at (not my code). Each form are

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 30.11.2017 10:04, Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: e.g. a small embedded device or to allow running them as a service.. Of course another important "headless environment" is server applications with built-in Web server or sitting behind a standard WebServer. -Michael --

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 30.11.2017 00:02, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: RAD style development is highly overrated... I do know that very exactly, been there often enough. RAD is great to create "small" applications, but with huge projects, you will very likely hit a limit where you wish you would not have

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-11-29 13:27, José Mejuto via Lazarus wrote: I can spend some time, again, improving LCL-fpGUI but I need the help of somebody expert in fpGUI, as I'm not a fpGUI user at all, and one with good skills in the LCL widget bindings internals, because the last I'll gladly help where I can,

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-11-28 09:11, Michael Schnell wrote: Is implementing TLabel really that hard ? In LCL yes, because it isn't a widget in the normal sense (unlike in fpGUI). Instead LCL uses Windows-like API calls to render what TLabel represents. The LCL-fpGUI widgetset doesn't have all those

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-11-29 10:08, Sven Barth via Lazarus wrote: Correct (though GTK and Qt are also rather OS independent). The plus point of fpGUI is that when you compile LCL-fpGUI, you compile (or could recompile) the underlying toolkit too. So bug fixes or improvements can be applied instantly (to

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-11-28 09:02, Michael Schnell via Lazarus wrote: and support for Delphi-typical RAD-style development. RAD style development is highly overrated - I wish you can see the mess I'm looking at (not my code). Each form are 1000's of lines long with tons of database logic hard-coded,

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

El 27/11/2017 a las 19:59, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus escribió: Then my I suggest you take a look at the LCL-fpGUI widgetset. It has all the basic components working (except for TLabel), and many of the other Windows like API's and dialogs etc. It desperately needs a maintainer - I don't

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

Am 29.11.2017 09:41 schrieb "Michael Schnell via Lazarus" < lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>: On 28.11.2017 11:28, Sven Barth via Lazarus wrote: Why should they? They are two completely different projects. From the LCL's point of view fpGui is a black box like GTK, Qt or the Windows API. OK, so

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 28.11.2017 11:28, Sven Barth via Lazarus wrote: Why should they? They are two completely different projects. From the LCL's point of view fpGui is a black box like GTK, Qt or the Windows API. OK, so in the end fpGUI *is* an external Widget set, only that it comes more independent of the OS

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

Am 28.11.2017 10:02 schrieb "Michael Schnell via Lazarus" < lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>: On 27.11.2017 20:07, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: > > Either way, it would be nice to see LCL-CustomDrawn and LCL-fpGUI > widgetsets get some more attention. > Is there any chance to unify them

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 27.11.2017 19:59, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:  (except for TLabel) To me TLable seems like very important to allow easy "porting" of applications from an other widget Type to fpGUI/LCL. Is implementing TLabel really that hard ? -Michael --

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 27.11.2017 20:07, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote:  Either way, it would be nice to see LCL-CustomDrawn and LCL-fpGUI widgetsets get some more attention. Is there any chance to unify them to a single Widget Type implementation that uses a low level graphics API (without an external

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-11-27 19:04, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus wrote: Just so inform everybody. fpGUI has the ability to switch between "alien windows" (only a top level window handle) or "each widget has a handle" during compile time. I forgot to mention, the latest stable release of fpGUI Toolkit

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-11-26 17:32, Kostas Michalopoulos via Lazarus wrote: Also AFAIK fpGUI doesn't use the native window system beyond the toplevel windows, which i think would make OpenGL support and interfacing with external stuff (e.g. calling an external library where you pass a HWND/X11 Window directly)

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 2017-11-23 02:23, Kostas Michalopoulos via Lazarus wrote: My main motivation is wanting to get away from the modern madness of GTK3+/Qt5+/Wayland and all that stuff and their dependencies Then my I suggest you take a look at the LCL-fpGUI widgetset. It has all the basic components working

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:45:42 +0200 Kostas Michalopoulos via Lazarus wrote: >[...] > Thanks for the information. So in theory i could write a shell script that > creates a symbolic link lcl/interfaces/wsfoo that points to some external > (from Lazarus' source code

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

@Sven: Ah, i thought the custom drawn was built on top of LCL. Hm, regardless, it doesn't solve my concern, since what i want is to reuse my widget toolkit. Otherwise i'd probably work on fpGUI's Lazarus bindings since fpGUI seems to be more mature. @Martin: No, it is tied to LCL :-P a lot of

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On 26.11.2017 17:13, Sven Barth via Lazarus wrote: Lazarus already contains a custom drawn widgetset that supports X11. I don't know its current state, but maybe it would be best to bring that up to speed and form instead of starting a new one. Some time ago I did play with the custom drawn

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

Am 26.11.2017 14:23 schrieb "Kostas Michalopoulos via Lazarus" < lazarus@lists.lazarus-ide.org>: Is there a way to have an LCL widgetset outside of the Lazarus tree? I'm considering writing one for my Little Forms C toolkit at some point but i don't think it would be very useful to others so i

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

On Sunday 26 November 2017 14:53:54 Stéphane Aulery via Lazarus wrote: > Hello, > > On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 04:23:19AM +0200, Kostas Michalopoulos via Lazarus wrote: > > My main motivation is wanting to get away from the modern madness of > > GTK3+/Qt5+/Wayland and all that stuff and their

Re: [Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

Hello, On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 04:23:19AM +0200, Kostas Michalopoulos via Lazarus wrote: > > My main motivation is wanting to get away from the modern madness of > GTK3+/Qt5+/Wayland and all that stuff and their dependencies but i'd rather > not rewrite in C all the tools and library code i

[Lazarus] External/out-of-tree LCL widgetset

Is there a way to have an LCL widgetset outside of the Lazarus tree? I'm considering writing one for my Little Forms C toolkit at some point but i don't think it would be very useful to others so i don't think there is much of a value in having it as part of the Lazarus codebase (and TBH i cannot