Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Bart]

On 1/18/16, Lukasz Sokol  wrote:

> I'm with Howard here (and Matthias). It should be a default No if a change
> can not be reversed by just Ctrl-Z or Undo.

Obey widgetset behaviour.

> if a change
> can not be reversed by just Ctrl-Z or Undo.

Implement Undo for the menu-desgner will be on the wish list then.

Bart

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Re: [Lazarus] Testing Unicode and Windows system codepage in Lazarus 1.6

[Bart]

On 1/18/16, Jürgen Hestermann  wrote:

> Now that is cynical!

No it is not.
Lazarus has taken the direction of using the new UTF8 system.
Most of us do not use the DisableUtf8 feature at all, since we don't need it.
Hence we have no experience.

Users who want that feature should test it.
Failures will most likely be in cases we cannot think of (or else we
would have fixed it already)

Your testing will give valuable info about bugs, workarounds, caveats etc.
All of which you can add to the wiki, by you, since the wiki belongs
to the community, and you have the proper information.

> For whom is the documentation meant at all?
> Why not drop it and everything is fine?
> The code is there, just read it!

Please stop this kind of ranting.
The only thing you accomplish is that you alienate yourself from us.

Report bugs.
We will try to fix them, which may involve you having to do more tests
(as it has always been).
Provide patches if you can.
Stop complaining about things that are already fixed.
We will work with you, as long as you don't work against us.

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Re: [Lazarus] Opening non existing files and (not) adding them to the project

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:
> It works here on GTK2/Ubuntu. I can choose a non existing file.

I guess you mean you can type a name of a non existing file.
You cannot choose it because by definition it does not exist.

I have Xubuntu 15.10 with XFCE now. Can it make a difference? The
window manager of XFCE behaves strangely sometimes. I can test with
another distro later.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Lukasz Sokol]

On 18/01/16 10:36, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
> On 18.01.2016 10:42, Lukasz Sokol wrote:
>> Then maybe make the 'No' answer default here?
> 
> No. If I hit delete, I want to delete the button. The prompt is OK
> there but the default action should always be what you want to do ->
> "yes". Don't assume that people are dumb :)
> 
I am not...

However seeing that I am perfectly able to slip a finger off my Enter key
on MY keyboard and/or hit 'del' key and then Enter in one move,puts some 
perspective here ;)
(https://www.google.com/search?q=dell+rt7D50+keyboard)
(that actually happened to me, I do not always look at my keyboard while typing 
fast ;) )

Also, no, people are not dumb, their ability to invent new ways to cut corners 
is a fast moving target ;)
(especially if they think software is slowing them down)


> Btw. Howard had the "No" button default but I changed it.
> 
I'm with Howard here (and Matthias). It should be a default No if a change can 
not be reversed by just Ctrl-Z or Undo.

> Ondrej



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Re: [Lazarus] Opening non existing files and (not) adding them to the project

[Sven Barth]

Am 18.01.2016 12:11 schrieb "Juha Manninen" :
> Can you find what revision caused the original problem you described?

I'll try to.

Regards,
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Re: [Lazarus] Opening non existing files and (not) adding them to the project

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 14:58:35 +0200
Juha Manninen  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Mattias Gaertner
>  wrote:
> > It works here on GTK2/Ubuntu. I can choose a non existing file.
> 
> I guess you mean you can type a name of a non existing file.
> You cannot choose it because by definition it does not exist.

Yes.

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 18.01.2016 14:03, Lukasz Sokol wrote:

Btw. Howard had the "No" button default but I changed it.


I'm with Howard here (and Matthias


As far as I understood Mattias' email, he did not say the dialog should 
default to "Yes".


Btw. I checked when deleting files in the default file manager (with DEL 
and also with SHIFT+DEL for permanent delete) and the results are the 
following:


Windows 10: default is "Yes" for both actions.
Kubuntu: DEL - no prompt by default, you can enamble the prompt, then it 
defaults to "Yes".

SHIFT+DEL - default is "Yes".
--
Mac OSX 10.8 (a little bit different): no prompt for move to trash.
When permanently deleting the files from trash, the prompt dialog also 
defaults to "Empty Trash"/"Yes".


So all OS I tested are pretty consistent, the default action is always 
the destructive one.



). It should be a default No if a change can not be reversed by just Ctrl-Z or 
Undo.


What if you accidetially hit delete then right-arrow and then enter? 
It's the same problem. You can play this all the time :(


Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] Testing Unicode and Windows system codepage in Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 8:20 AM, Jürgen Hestermann
 wrote:
> Now that is cynical!
> Telling those who do not know anything about what
> has been developed over the last years
> to write the documentation theirselfs.

No, my point is that I will not continue doing it. Somebody else must
take charge. If nobody wants to do it, then bad luck for you.
I have done my share for a feature I don't even use myself. I added
the define + basic documentation for it and applied some patches from
Michl to fix its bugs.
Are you saying that I should feel guilty now for not maintaining it further.
This is how voluntary open source works. Basically people scratch
their own itches. If somebody feels this DisableUTF8RTL feature is
important then he improves it. If nobody feels so then it will not be
improved. Simple as that.


> Not the developers who know what they changed
> and what they had in mind when doing so should
> document their work but those who just use it.

Yes, it is already documented here:
  http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_with_FPC3.0_without_UTF-8_mode
However the future maintainer should add more examples and explain how
to solve problems that come up.


> For whom is the documentation meant at all?
> Why not drop it and everything is fine?
> The code is there, just read it!

Exactly! Why don't you do so?
You and me are in the same position. Neither of us gets paid for
improving Lazarus. Both of us can improve things we feel important.
Tell me, why don't you improve the feature you apparently consider important?

> I think with this attitude the whole project is doomed to fail.

Right. What about your attitude?
Why do you attack people who actually created some substance for this project?
Why don't you attack the people who did not create any substance? It
would be more logical IMO.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Michael Schnell]

On 01/18/2016 11:26 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:


The bad idea was that HTML became the standard for remote GUI. HTML = 
HyperText Markup Language

And a web GUI is anything but text these days.

... requiring a decently statefull (instead of connection-less) protocol

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:36:57 +0100
Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:

> On 18.01.2016 10:42, Lukasz Sokol wrote:
> > Then maybe make the 'No' answer default here?
> 
> No. If I hit delete, I want to delete the button. The prompt is OK there 
> but the default action should always be what you want to do -> "yes".

Actually the default button depends on the OS/widgetset. For example on
OS X the default for a destructive action should be "No".
On Windows the default is typically Yes/Ok.
Same for button order.

> Don't assume that people are dumb :)

People are creatures of habit.

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Docking search results

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:
> No, it is not. It is opened if you saved your desktop with search result
> dialog opened. If you saved your desktop with search result dialog closed,
> it won't be opened.
> If you have enabled "auto save desktop" option and you close the IDE with
> search result dialog opened, of course it is opened the next time.
>
> This is correct behaviour. Do not change it!!! E.g. some people want the
> search result dialog have docked or opened by default.

Yes, actually I have the "auto save desktop" option on.
I will keep it off and the problem is solved.

> Why do you want a special treatment for the search result dialog?

I thought nobody wants to see search results before he actually
searches something. Maybe I was wrong.
It was about undocked IDE as I wrote. Docked layout changes things of course.
Anyway, problem solved, no changes needed.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Michael Schnell]

On 01/18/2016 01:41 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

  1. Most websites are unusable without Javascript


The HTTP protocol cripples TCT/IP disallowing the server to 
spontaneously send anything .


So without scrip the browser is dead by design.

-Michael (IMHO, http was the worst idea ever...)


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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 18.01.2016 10:42, Lukasz Sokol wrote:

Then maybe make the 'No' answer default here?


No. If I hit delete, I want to delete the button. The prompt is OK there 
but the default action should always be what you want to do -> "yes".

Don't assume that people are dumb :)

Btw. Howard had the "No" button default but I changed it.

Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-01-18 10:22, Dariusz Mazur wrote:
> on web much less data ar drawn from serwer

That is debatable. Back in the day (circa 1994) loading a web page with
stacks of content was in the region of 100-200KB max. Now you load a
page with hardly any content and it is a 5-8MB download!! When last did
you actually measure web traffic in your browser?

You might find this link interesting:

   http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm


Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Lukasz Sokol]

On 16/01/16 23:11, Howard wrote:
[...]
> In this particular instance of deleting a submenu (not just a single
> item) my motivation was not to make it overly complicated (though I
> appreciate it may seem so). It is quite possible a user may have
> spent 10 minutes designing a submenu with half a dozen items, and
> then hits the delete key accidentally. With a simple Yes/No dialog
> (especially if the the default button is Yes) it is all to easy to
> hit the wrong button and lose the last few minutes' work; [...]

Then maybe make the 'No' answer default here?

Long sentences are not always a good enough incentive to stop people
from accidentally pressing ENTER ...

But if someone actively pressed TAB to change to yes, then enter,
or used their mouse to click Yes, you can safely assume, that yes they meant it 
;)


> 
> Howard
> 
el es


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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Michael Schnell]

On 01/15/2016 06:29 PM, Anthony Walter wrote:

On a programming web forum someone said regarding Lazarus:

On just cursory review, looks compelling. However, I get so little 
call these days for native/desktop applications. Seems everyone wants 
web now.
Of course it would be great if Lazarus would offer support for designing 
the GUI of a "Rich Web Application" (e.g. by providing the appropriate 
components and a Browser based WISYWig preview). But this of course is a 
completely new project and lots of work to do.


-Michael


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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Dariusz Mazur]

On 2016-01-15 19:01, Dmitry Boyarintsev wrote:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Anthony Walter > wrote:


For businesses web development is probably a better fit for their
software needs.

For people who are computer enthusiasts that use their computers
to process tasks or solve problems, desktop development is
probably better.

What are your opinions on the subject title ?


I think you're missing security considerations as well.

When a desktop application is compromised, it's likely that only a 
particular user would a victim.

For web-applications, all users might be compromised as well.

Thats only one side. On desktop when one application is compomised, all 
others may be also. And much of attacs are done throught acrobat  and 
others plugin or semi desktop application.


Many of client-server (desktop) application have poorer sercurity than 
web application. VPN only protect link machine-machine , but https 
protect application-application
And last but not least: on web much less data ar drawn from serwer,and 
the same when stolen local computer is not equal data stolen


--
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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Santiago A.]

El 15/01/2016 a las 18:29, Anthony Walter escribió:
> On a programming web forum someone said regarding Lazarus:
>
> On just cursory review, looks compelling. However, I get so little
> call these days for native/desktop applications. Seems everyone wants
> web now.

I posted a message time ago in this forum "The future of desktop".

It is a problem of portable GUI. Years ago GUI = Windows GUI, now it's
not true any more. Even in windows there are incompatibilities with
previous versions (i.e. fonts size make w95 forms not fitting in W10).
GUI has become a moving target.

Do you want to make an application portable everywhere? You can't rely
in anything. Your best bet is web. Every device/SO IOs, Android, QT 3,
QT 4, Gtk 1,Gtk 2,  Windows 95, Windows 10, Mac all have a browser
with a standard protocol.

Web is not what I like, but it has become the standard GUI "de facto".
Web was a displaying document protocol, it has been patched (cookies,
javascript, websockets) to make a GUI of it. We needed so
desperately remote GUI, that we created such Frankenstein from the
pieces we had.

But, as a patched GUI protocol, is a nightmare programming for it.
Nevertheless, until someone comes with something better, here we are. It
is not difficult to make something better than Web, the problem is
getting it accepted as a standard.

-- 
Saludos

Santi
s...@ciberpiula.net


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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Sven Barth]

Am 18.01.2016 11:05 schrieb "Michael Schnell" :
>
> On 01/18/2016 01:41 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
>>
>>   1. Most websites are unusable without Javascript
>
>
> The HTTP protocol cripples TCT/IP disallowing the server to spontaneously
send anything .
>
> So without scrip the browser is dead by design.
>
> -Michael (IMHO, http was the worst idea ever...)

The requirements back then were different. You didn't have highly
interactive code running in the browser like you have today and for that
HTTP was perfect.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Michael Schnell]

On 01/18/2016 11:13 AM, Sven Barth wrote:


The requirements back then were different. You didn't have highly 
interactive code running in the browser like you have today and for 
that HTTP was perfect.



Of course you are right.

The consequence being that a new protocol (not connection-less) for 
browsers should be invented and made the next standard


But IT departments are too lazy and insist o keeping their restrictive 
firewalls and http proxies, hence preventing any such development .


-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-01-18 09:48, Santiago A. wrote:
> not true any more. Even in windows there are incompatibilities with
> previous versions (i.e. fonts size make w95 forms not fitting in W10).

I have no such problem with true fpGUI based applications (no LCL involved).

> Do you want to make an application portable everywhere? You can't rely
> in anything. Your best bet is web. Every device/SO IOs, Android, QT 3,
> QT 4, Gtk 1,Gtk 2,  Windows 95, Windows 10, Mac all have a browser
> with a standard protocol.

It might be a standard protocol, but as every web browser vendor has
shown to date... they all love standards, so each web browser has their
own set of standards. :-( Using HTTP+CSS to develop consistent user
interfaces is a nightmare. Not all web browsers are equal. Not even
different versions of the same web browser.

I found consistency much easier to reach with desktop applications. The
secret is "custom drawn toolkits". I know this is a Lazarus form, but
LCL consistency is a joke. It is a problem between platforms (eg: Win32
vs Linux vs OSX etc) and a problem between LCL widgetsets (eg: lcl-win32
vs lcl-qt vs lcl-gtk2).

With custom drawn toolkits, the toolkit is in 100% control. fpGUI runs
on Linux, Windows, Solaris, FreeBSD, OSX, Embedded Windows and Embedded
Linux devices (and two more platforms to be added soon). The rendering
is pixel perfect and 100% consistent across all platforms. I develop new
toolkit features or complete widgets under my primary OS, FreeBSD, for
months on end without testing on other platforms. Then eventually I
switch to my Windows or Linux VM's and build the same applications and
without fail they look and behave exactly the same. [ok, this did take a
few years to achieve, but the result is bliss]

I also *never* have any IFDEF's in my application code either. This is
true consistency and unfortunately not something LCL will ever be able
to reach. Saying that, I fully understand LCL was by design to wrap
existing toolkits for the sake of being "native" (a very over hyped
thing in todays web age). That in itself, I think, was a bad choice in
the long run, but in the short term it made it possible for LCL to move
forward much faster.

> Web was a displaying document protocol, it has been patched (cookies,
> javascript, websockets) to make a GUI of it. We needed so
> desperately remote GUI,

We had that alread... It was called Java Applets. I thought that was a
brilliant idea and it actually worked extremely well. Yes, there was
security issues and performance issues in the beginning, but what brand
new technology doesn't have such problems. Yes, SUN should have sorted
those issues out faster, then the term "web application" might have
meant something totally different today.

But then time and time again it has been shown that the best technology
is not always the one that survives or becomes a consumer success
(betamax, firewire, java applets, Object Pascal just to name a few).


Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

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Re: [Lazarus] Can I build a Lazarus GUI program only with fpc installed?

[Michael Schnell]

On 01/17/2016 09:09 AM, Bo Berglund wrote:

If I install only fpc is it then possible to build a GUI program from
sources without also installing Lazarus (on Linux target)?


Of course: if you create  your of GUI.

Alternatively you can also use MSE instead of Lazarus (I suppose there 
are some more fpc aware GUI libraries out there).


-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016, Sven Barth wrote:


Am 18.01.2016 11:05 schrieb "Michael Schnell" :


On 01/18/2016 01:41 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:


  1. Most websites are unusable without Javascript



The HTTP protocol cripples TCT/IP disallowing the server to spontaneously

send anything .


So without scrip the browser is dead by design.

-Michael (IMHO, http was the worst idea ever...)


The requirements back then were different. You didn't have highly
interactive code running in the browser like you have today and for that
HTTP was perfect.


The nice thing of HTTP is that it is very simple: Message, response. Stop.
That alone is enough to explain its success. And in this sense, it was a
brilliant idea.

The bad idea was that HTML became the standard for remote GUI. 
HTML = HyperText Markup Language

And a web GUI is anything but text these days.

Michael.

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Lukasz Sokol]

On 18/01/16 15:20, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
> On 18.01.2016 14:03, Lukasz Sokol wrote:
>>> Btw. Howard had the "No" button default but I changed it.
>>> 
>> I'm with Howard here (and Matthias
> 
> As far as I understood Mattias' email, he did not say the dialog
> should default to "Yes".

Heh you're right, he did not.

[...]

> So all OS I tested are pretty consistent, the default action is
> always the destructive one.
> 
OK. 

>> ). It should be a default No if a change can not be reversed by
>> just Ctrl-Z or Undo.
> 
> What if you accidetially hit delete then right-arrow and then enter?
> It's the same problem. You can play this all the time :(
> 
> Ondrej
> 

In development, maybe you're right. All is fair in software development ;)

I just happen to have a system here, where I have to log users actions.
But no amount of 'breadcrumbs' (action logging) is going to stop people
from complaining about default actions taken by just pressing 'yes' or enter 
all the time... that they
perceive as 'wrong answer'.

Their supervisors tend to tell us then, 'you should have stopped them from 
blindly selecting the wrong answer by default'...

We (still) get complaints that it's slowing them down, but then, it's now 'by 
design'.

At some point we resorted to disabling the default button mappings to keyboard,
so they HAVE to click buttons by mouse.

And they aren't 'dumb' people, oh no.

el es


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[Lazarus] fpc trunk fails "make all"

[Anthony Walter]

While trying to "make all" of fpc on Window I am receiving and error on:

make -C packages clean

The error message is:

make[2]: *** No rule to make target `clean'.  Stop.

Here is the more output in context:

C:/Development/build/fpc.3.0.0/bin/i386-win32/rm.exe -f fpcmade.i386-win32
Package.fpc ppas.bat script.res link.res
C:/Development/build/fpc.3.0.0/bin/i386-win32/rm.exe -f *.s *_ppas.bat
make[3]: Leaving directory `C:/Development/build/fpc/rtl/win32'
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/Development/build/fpc/rtl'
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/Development/build/fpc'
make packages_clean FPC=C:/Development/build/fpc/compiler/ppc386.exe
make[1]: Entering directory `C:/Development/build/fpc'
make -C packages clean
make[2]: *** No rule to make target `clean'.  Stop.
make[2]: Entering directory `C:/Development/build/fpc/packages'
make[2]: Leaving directory `C:/Development/build/fpc/packages'
make[1]: *** [packages_clean] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `C:/Development/build/fpc'
make: *** [build-stamp.i386-win32] Error 2
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[Lazarus] Debugging in Libraries.

[Donald Ziesig]

Hi All:

I have encountered a problem doing things that used to work.  (Using 
Lazarus 1.4.4 on Linux and 1.4.2 on Raspbian)


Specifically, I can no longer step into subprograms in library units, 
and when I set a breakpoint in the library code it is colored dull green 
as opposed to bright red in the main program.  Some, but not all, of the 
library code is implemented using generics.


I can't see anything I am doing differently than before (except that I 
copied the entire source for the program and library from a Raspberry 
PI, including the configurations.  The PI also had this problem).


Can anyone give me a hint as to where I should start looking to fix this?

Thanks,

Don Ziesig

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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Michael Schnell]

On 01/18/2016 12:00 PM, Dariusz Mazur wrote:
We write our business application as web from several years. Its the 
same as desktop version, and development are done parallel as 90% of 
both version have the same source code.  And i have some others 
consideration:


In a perfect world, the LCL would allow for defining a web GUI so that 
the code and GUI define files are 100 % identical, simply choosing a 
different Widget type (just dreaming...)


-Michael


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Re: [Lazarus] Opening non existing files and (not) adding them to the project

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Sven Barth  wrote:
> Don't shock me like that, Juha.
>
> The IDE actively asks me whether I want to create a new file if I open a non
> existing one and it should definitely stay that way.

Ok, you and Mattias are right.
The OpenDialog in TMainIDE.mnuOpenClicked has no ofFileMustExist flag.
I got confused with changes I made for Delphi converter dialogs.

Anyway the file open dialogs in GTK2 and QT don't respect the omitted
ofFileMustExist flag. They behave like it was set. That is another bug
clearly.
I got the question about creating a new file only using Windows
version of Lazarus.

Can you find what revision caused the original problem you described?

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Dariusz Mazur]

On 2016-01-17 02:10, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

On 2016-01-15 17:29, Anthony Walter wrote:

For businesses web development is probably a better fit for their software
needs.

Yes in a way I see that, but having worked in the past (2014) in a 100%
web based company developing online banking and mortgages software, I
have seen first hand it is not all sunshine and roses - although
everybody on the web wants you to believe it is.
We write our business application as web from several years. Its the 
same as desktop version, and development are done parallel as 90% of 
both version have the same source code.  And i have some others 
consideration:





* Browser incompatibility plagued us every other day. Even different
versions of the same browser caused problems (eg: Chrome being a big
culprit).
Current browsers on base task are behave near equals. Of course new 
features discover new problems, but after some time there are gone also.




* There seems to be a million and one web technologies. So you start
your project using this and that. Six months later they all go... Oh
that is so old school, or component A is now the coolest toy on the web,
so we should rather use X and Y instead. This cycle never ends. Web
technologies or components come and go WAY to quick.

This is main problem. But we choice ... VCL.
Some of assumptions:
on application forms and widgets have the same architecture as VCL: 
forms, windows, controls, fonts, near the same API


server build only HTML , each frame and widgets and data, but all look 
are done by CSS+JS on browser side.
Application has one page form, all  changes are transfer thought AJAX or 
websockets (similar as http://www.webtoolkit.eu/wt)




each user action (click, touch) are transfer to application  and browser 
receive new content, this sound time bottleneck, but only seemingly,

this take less than 80ms , painting go longer.





* Security was a major concern





* Most web code look absolutely horrible! Desktop software is not
immune, but they seem to have more practise in good design.
JS/CSS/HTML are hard to make good design, thus only smart part we write 
on it, most are in Pascal


* Update Deployments were a nightmare - not nearly as easy as they make
you believe.

why?



* Testing and Quality assurance is really hard.
we don't notice difference from desktop, but theoretically its easier to 
imitate browser and testing behaving click by click.




--
Darek



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Re: [Lazarus] Web vs desktop development

[Dariusz Mazur]

On 2016-01-18 11:52, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

On 2016-01-18 10:22, Dariusz Mazur wrote:

on web much less data ar drawn from serwer

That is debatable. Back in the day (circa 1994) loading a web page with
stacks of content was in the region of 100-200KB max. Now you load a
page with hardly any content and it is a 5-8MB download!! When last did
you actually measure web traffic in your browser?

I've not talk about webside only  about (my) webapp.
And not about data throughput  only storage information (sorry for 
imprecise)

Of course you have to load bitmaps/js/css but only one time.

I've measure web traffic on my application very often:
 most of request are shorter than 1 Ethernet frame,
full page reload  take 100kb.

It is on line demo on which everybody cane try, but in polish.


--
Darek





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Re: [Lazarus] Opening non existing files and (not) adding them to the project

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 13:11:08 +0200
Juha Manninen  wrote:

>[...]
> Anyway the file open dialogs in GTK2 and QT don't respect the omitted
> ofFileMustExist flag. They behave like it was set. That is another bug
> clearly.

It works here on GTK2/Ubuntu. I can choose a non existing file.

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 18.01.2016 15:51, Bart wrote:

Implement Undo for the menu-desgner will be on the wish list then.


+1. Changing properties in OI and deleting components already are 
supported by the Undo function. The menu editor should support it as well.


Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] Opening non existing files and (not) adding them to the project

[Sven Barth]

Am 18.01.2016 12:11 schrieb "Juha Manninen" :
> Can you find what revision caused the original problem you described?

Seems like it was more PEBKAC than anything else.
The thing is I normally use this when I work with the compiler and there I
add my tests to a directory parallel to the project directory.
However when I found this "problem" I had a different project in this test
directory open (cause I needed to debug it), but I added a test in the same
directory.
Now while looking for the changed revision I found out that Lazarus applies
a heuristic when to add a file to the project. Part of the decisions is the
above mentioned difference and it seems to have been like that at least
since 1.3 times (that's what I had accessible right now).
So there was nothing changed at all and I merely stumbled upon my own
stupidity -.-

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [Lazarus] fpc trunk fails "make all"

[Sven Barth]

Am 18.01.2016 18:52 schrieb "Anthony Walter" :
>
> While trying to "make all" of fpc on Window I am receiving and error on:
>
> make -C packages clean
>
> The error message is:
>
> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `clean'.  Stop.

Such questions are better asked on fpc-pascal.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [Lazarus] Testing Unicode and Windows system codepage in Lazarus 1.6

[Gabor Boros]

2016.01.17. 12:34 keltezéssel, Juha Manninen írta:


Feedback please.


Hi,

A complicated example:

Label1.Caption:=WideChar($25BD);

With fixes_1_4(and FPC 3.0.0) I see a question mark on the screen, with 
fixes_1_6 I see the wanted "WHITE DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE".

I am happy with fixes_1_6! :-)

Gabor

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Re: [Lazarus] Testing Unicode and Windows system codepage in Lazarus 1.6

[Gabor Boros]

2016.01.18. 23:20 keltezéssel, Bart írta:

With or without -dDisableUTF8RTL ?


Checkout, make bigide. I did not change anything.

Gabor

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Re: [Lazarus] Debugging in Libraries.

[Martin Frb]

On 18/01/2016 18:34, Donald Ziesig wrote:

Hi All:

I have encountered a problem doing things that used to work. (Using 
Lazarus 1.4.4 on Linux and 1.4.2 on Raspbian)


Specifically, I can no longer step into subprograms in library units, 
and when I set a breakpoint in the library code it is colored dull 
green as opposed to bright red in the main program. Some, but not all, 
of the library code is implemented using generics.


I can't see anything I am doing differently than before (except that I 
copied the entire source for the program and library from a Raspberry 
PI, including the configurations.  The PI also had this problem).


Dull green, usually (check debug output window) means that gdb returned, 
that there is on code on the requested line/number.


With generics, usually the oposite is the case, there are several blocks 
of code containing the location (and on windows, I have seen gdb 
handling that, at least in some cases).


The question then is, if fpc did generate sufficient debug info or if 
gdb has an issue.  (try stabs and dwarf)


ensure you disable "inlining"

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Re: [Lazarus] Debugging in Libraries.

[Donald Ziesig]

On 01/18/2016 03:13 PM, Martin Frb wrote:

On 18/01/2016 18:34, Donald Ziesig wrote:

Hi All:

I have encountered a problem doing things that used to work. (Using 
Lazarus 1.4.4 on Linux and 1.4.2 on Raspbian)


Specifically, I can no longer step into subprograms in library units, 
and when I set a breakpoint in the library code it is colored dull 
green as opposed to bright red in the main program. Some, but not 
all, of the library code is implemented using generics.


I can't see anything I am doing differently than before (except that 
I copied the entire source for the program and library from a 
Raspberry PI, including the configurations.  The PI also had this 
problem).


Dull green, usually (check debug output window) means that gdb 
returned, that there is on code on the requested line/number.

will do.


With generics, usually the oposite is the case, there are several 
blocks of code containing the location (and on windows, I have seen 
gdb handling that, at least in some cases).


come to think of it, IIRC gdb handled generics in windows, but that was 
back on Lazarus 1.0.  I have been working exclusively on Linux and 
Raspbian for the past 2 years.


The question then is, if fpc did generate sufficient debug info or if 
gdb has an issue.  (try stabs and dwarf)


will do.
Forgot to mention that gdb itself occasionally crashes when working 
around this code!




ensure you disable "inlining"


where?


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Martin,

Thanks for the pointers.

 I discovered something since I wrote the last email:  gdb works 
(except for occasional failures in generics) if I compile the whole 
thing (Run | Cleanup and Build ...) in Linux.  Lazarus itself is 
protected so I have to skip the errors.   (I just upgraded this laptop 
to an SSD so the Cleanup and Build runs faster than just-plain Compile 
on the original HDD ... Yippy!!!).  I haven't tried it on Raspbian yet.


Don

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Re: [Lazarus] Debugging in Libraries.

[Martin Frb]

On 18/01/2016 20:51, Donald Ziesig wrote:




ensure you disable "inlining"


where?

there may be an option to fpc

I place {$INLINE OFF}(IIRC) in units that need it

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Re: [Lazarus] Testing Unicode and Windows system codepage in Lazarus 1.6

[Bart]

On 1/18/16, Gabor Boros  wrote:

> A complicated example:
>
> Label1.Caption:=WideChar($25BD);
>
> With fixes_1_4(and FPC 3.0.0) I see a question mark on the screen, with
> fixes_1_6 I see the wanted "WHITE DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE".
> I am happy with fixes_1_6! :-)

With or without -dDisableUTF8RTL ?

Bart

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