Re: [Lazarus] German umlauts in component names

[Vincent Snijders]

2016-04-08 14:13 GMT+02:00 Vojtěch Čihák :

> IMO it is not my local problem, those mails can be found in archive too:
> http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/2016-April/thread.html
>
>
>
> Vojtech
>
>
>
> On 04/08/2016 12:24 PM, Vojtěch Čihák wrote:
> > Why sometimes come these empty mails from jel...@misticnabica.hr?
> >
> > Is it regular member or some bot?
>
> I think it's hacked machine...I'll inform that ppl that they are sending
> spam. btw. I don't see such empty emails. Where do they come ? To your
> email or to list ?
>
>
I set the moderation bit on jel...@misticnabica.hr, so those mail won't
reach the list antmore.

Vincent
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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Jürgen Hestermann
 wrote:
> Of course, nobody here wants to miss any of the current state of Free
> Pascal/Lazarus.
> So anybody who was/is involved in coding here can be thanked very much.
> But does that mean that any discussions about improvements is forbidden?

I overreacted and used stronger words than necessary. Sorry about that!
The issue itself was valid though. Your emphasis was that current
developers should do more and better work.
It is a little sensitive issue in a purely volunteer based project. If
you had some idea of improving things yourself, things would be
different.

See, a commercial product works differently. Its developers are
filtered and isolated from user feedback more. Feedback and bug
reports come from support channels and personnel. Requirements come
from marketing through development managers. And developers get salary
which compensates any possible negative feedback.
It means people can write ugly things about for example Delphi in
public programming forums as a funny "small talk".
It is not personified to anybody (much anyway) and the developers can
continue undisturbed.

Open source is more ... open!
Voluntary people work because they want to. They are not pushed by
anybody else to it.
How can it work? It is something very subtle and fragile. The
motivation comes exactly from the freedom.
Between developers there are never demands like "you must do that
feature because I say so". The freedom to do or not to do is a "holy
ground".
Even projects that have a dictator (Lazarus project has none) do not
impose such demands. Otherwise the project would be forked very
quickly.
The highly open and transparent development model + the fragile
motivation based on freedom makes an open source project vulnerable to
attacks.
Communication in mailing list goes directly to developers without
buffering or filtering or middle-men.

One more thing:
I wrote earlier "arguments were pure lies meant to agitate people"
which was out of context.
The context were some forum flames, especially the pro-/contra-CodeTyphon war.
If somebody does not know what happened, send me a personal mail and I
give a recap.
I will NOT return to that topic more in a public list.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] 1 keypress gives multiple letters ONLY in program written in Lazarus in raspbian jessie Pi 2

[Michael Thompson]

On 12 April 2016 at 02:51, Giuliano Colla 
wrote:
>
> I took the liberty of editing the Wiki entry, using all the information I
> have.
>
> Please feel free to adjust as you deem proper.
>
>
Nice work.  More technical than I was capable of :-)

Mike
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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Marco van de Voort]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 01:00:46PM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 12:30 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> > What's so hard about this:
> 
> Maybe you do remember that (with your help) I once tried to contribute 
> to the fpc help.

Sorry, can't remember any patches, so it can't have been too serious!

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Marco van de Voort]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 01:28:40PM +0200, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> > 
> > Uh? I don't believe that anybody takes a patch from Mantis and applies
> > it blindly without actually looking at the patch. If they do, that is
> > very sad news for the Lazarus project.
> 
> No one is applying blindly patches and no one adds stuff blindly to the
> wiki.  I meant that the developers are humans.  They are not experts on
> all topics.  Buggy patches has been applied.  The more people look over it
> the better.

True.

>  This is true for both fpdoc and wiki.

No. Wiki has patches applied without any kind of post-commit filter. So
fpdoc is first order (at worst), and wiki 0th order (at best).

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Marco van de Voort]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 11:59:39AM +0200, Michael Schnell wrote:
> On 04/11/2016 11:26 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> > Wiki's are only good for knowledge base - adding random thoughts as 
> > pages - loosely linked together by cross-links. It is terrible as a 
> > help format/medium.
> 
> While I do see your point I can't think of any other authoring system 
> that might be able to allow for possible volunteers to do contributions 
> (as has been the wish of some previous posters).

Nobody disputes that. If you want to sacrifice content to easy access on
principle, then that would definitely be the way to go.

It is the conjecture that the content will actually improve because of it
that I find highly doubtful.

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Re: [Lazarus] 1 keypress gives multiple letters ONLY in program written in Lazarus in raspbian jessie Pi 2

[Giuliano Colla]

Il 10/04/2016 21:16, Michael Thompson ha scritto:

I know this issue is resolved, but I've just stumbled across this:

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_Faq#Typing_under_Ubuntu_in_edit_fields_generate_duplicate_letters

We'll need to change Ubuntu now to Linux in general, but before I do 
that: Giuliano: Do you know if any of the steps listed here would have 
helped?  If not, can you let me know how you disabled the Input 
Manager, and I'll update the wiki accordinly.


I took the liberty of editing the Wiki entry, using all the information 
I have.


Please feel free to adjust as you deem proper.

Giuliano


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Re: [Lazarus] Is it an error to have mutiple help viewers enabled?

[Michael Thompson]

On 12 April 2016 at 02:12, Alan Corey  wrote:

> Just what everybody should carry in their phone as an epub. :-)


Ooh!   Now I want a copy :-)
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[Lazarus] Is it an error to have mutiple help viewers enabled?

[Alan Corey]

One of my copies of Lazarus shows that ChmHelpPkg 0.2 is installed.
If I hit F1 in a field in ObjectInspector I see what looks like a chm
viewer for a fraction of a second then I get an Access Violation and
it goes away.  Meanwhile if I look at Firefox it's trying to open a
chm file.  There are plugins for that, I'm downloading one, hopefully.

Figured how to change web browsers, just type in the path to one
beside where it says BrowserPath.

fpdoc looks good, but why is fpcdoc.chm in the Lazarus 1.0.14 tarball
yet gone by 1.6.0?  It seems to be the generator of most of your
documentation, whether in chm, inf or html.  It would probably not be
hard to add epub as a format since that's zipped html.  I'm trying to
manually construct the whole tree from toc.chm down as one file.  Just
what everybody should carry in their phone as an epub. :)  PDF or
dejavu wouldn't be bad as long as you can generate the internal
hyperlinks under program control.

FPC and Lazarus look like a giant project that's gone on for many
years.  I remember trying FPC in about 1998 and sticking with Borland.
Now that they're mostly gone and Lazarus has gone multiplatform it
surpasses anything Borland did.

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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Jürgen Hestermann]

Am 2016-04-11 um 17:38 schrieb Dennis:
> That is so rude of you (Jürgen) to say that. By your reasoning, let us all 
attack you (Jürgen) and your attitude and you should just ignore it or filter your 
mails.

I don't know why I am the bad guy now.
I did not start these personal attacks.
I just reacted on them.
Please read the whole thread(s) to see how this all started.
What did I write that justifies such a personal attack on me and request a "public 
apology"?


> We should all thank the developers for their selfless contribution to this 
open source project. They work for free and deserve our respect at the very least.
> I, myself, am very thankful to Lazarus and FPC. Without them, I had to pay a 
lot of money to upgrade to Delphi, which I hate after version 7, for my work to 
make a living. I make money from a FREE open source project which developers work 
without reward.  I want to say loudly here, THANK YOU ALL!

Of course, nobody here wants to miss any of the current state of Free 
Pascal/Lazarus.
So anybody who was/is involved in coding here can be thanked very much.
But does that mean that any discussions about improvements is forbidden?


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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Aradeonas]

> I, myself, am very thankful to Lazarus and FPC. Without them, I had to
> pay a lot of money to upgrade to Delphi, which I hate after version 7,
> for my work to make a living. I make money from a FREE open source
> project which developers work without reward.  I want to say loudly
> here, THANK YOU ALL!
Money is just a point, Major point for me is quality. I like FPC and
Lazarus more than many programming tools I ever used, thanks to its
developers all over the world.
 
Regards,
Ara
 
 

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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Dennis]

Jürgen Hestermann wrote:

Am 2016-04-09 um 15:57 schrieb Juha Manninen:
> Regarding posts from Jürgen Hestermann.

> Thus, I want Jürgen Hestermann to make a public apology for the
> developers he has attacked here.
> Further attacks should go to a personal blog somewhere. I promise to 
ignore it.

>
> For future needs, do we a have a mechanism to ban people from this 
list?

> In forum the threads can be locked, posts deleted and accounts banned.
> Those tools were used at least during the CodeTyphon episode.

Oh my god!! What a histerical tirade!
Why do you answer to all these posts if it brings you near to a heart 
attack?

Just ignore them if it you don't want to discuss them.
If you cannot live with any converse meanings then filter your mails
from all these evil people like me.

That is so rude of you (Jürgen) to say that. By your reasoning, let us 
all attack you (Jürgen) and your attitude and you should just ignore it 
or filter your mails.


We should all thank the developers for their selfless contribution to 
this open source project. They work for free and deserve our respect at 
the very least.
I, myself, am very thankful to Lazarus and FPC. Without them, I had to 
pay a lot of money to upgrade to Delphi, which I hate after version 7, 
for my work to make a living. I make money from a FREE open source 
project which developers work without reward.  I want to say loudly 
here, THANK YOU ALL!


Dennis


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[Lazarus] Adding TListView.GetHeaderHeight

[Denis Kozlov]

Hi,

Is it possible to add a TListView.GetHeaderHeight method?

My implementation for Windows as a standalone function is attached.

Can this can be done on other platforms? I don't have the expertise in
other widgets.

Regards,
Denis


uListViewHeader.pas
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Lazarus] [solved] Re: Filtering shown files in TShellListView

[Marc Santhoff]

On Mo, 2016-04-11 at 11:38 +0200, Bart wrote:
> On 4/11/16, Marc Santhoff  wrote:
> 
> >> I didn't see it in OI, was too lazy to look it up in the source.
> >> Looks like a property that should be published?
> >
> > I think so. I only found it when I wanted to start implmenting it myself
> > while looking at the list population code. ;)
> 
> Done in r52165 (trunk).

Thank you.

> Since this is not a bug, it will not be merged to 1.6 fixes branch I think.

I can live with that, now that I know. ;)

-- 
Marc Santhoff 


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Re: [Lazarus] Pretty neat stuff Lazarus

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 07:25, hfiandor wrote:
> Really, this is my problem. I have the Delphi5´discs, but I lost the
> opportunity of the D´help when I moved to W8.1.

Download the WinHelp32.exe binary from here:
  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=91

If the WinHlp32.exe doesn't run on Win8.1 then take the issue up with
Microsoft.

If it does run, then find out what command line parameters it supports.
Google is your friend. Set up a Lazarus "external tools" item via the
"Tools -> Configure external tools" dialog.

For details on how it was done using DocView and INF help, take a look here:
  http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/docview_ide_integration.shtml


Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Pretty neat stuff Lazarus

[hfiandor]

Dear Mr. Graeme:
Really, this is my problem. I have the Delphi5´discs, but I lost the
opportunity of the D´help when I moved to W8.1.

I don´t´know how to do it. If you can, let me know where to learn.

Tanks very much

Regards
Ing. Héctor F. Fiandor Rosario



-Mensaje original-
De: Graeme Geldenhuys [mailto:mailingli...@geldenhuys.co.uk] 
Enviado el: lunes, 11 de abril de 2016 12:42
Para: lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org
Asunto: Re: [Lazarus] Pretty neat stuff Lazarus

On 2016-04-11 05:30, hfiandor wrote:
> I am using the Window8.1.

For a start, have you actually downloaded and installed the HLP help
viewer? As far as I know the HLP viewer does not ship with Win7 and
later any more. It is now an extra download from Microsoft.

Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 12:49, Michael Schnell wrote:
> OSX is based on BSD,
> 
> So maybe this is not really  Volunteer driven :-)

Apple had nothing to do with it. FreeBSD's documentation existed long
before OSX saw the light of day.

Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Michael Schnell]

On 04/11/2016 01:37 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

FreeBSD has.

OSX is based on BSD,

So maybe this is not really  Volunteer driven :-)

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 12:19, Michael Schnell wrote:
> Anyway: just dreaming. Volunteer driven systems never get there.

FreeBSD has. So there is hope for others. ;-)
FreeBSD's documentation is impressive and complete. Not only do they
have very extensive "handbook" documentation in different languages,
they have published books detailing the intricate details of the OS
kernel, file system, boot process etc.

Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:56:38 +0100
Graeme Geldenhuys  wrote:

> On 2016-04-11 11:50, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
> >> > Currently with the wiki, rubbish can be added and no review is done! 
> > You could say the same for the fpdoc files.
> 
> Uh? I don't believe that anybody takes a patch from Mantis and applies
> it blindly without actually looking at the patch. If they do, that is
> very sad news for the Lazarus project.

No one is applying blindly patches and no one adds stuff blindly to the
wiki. 
I meant that the developers are humans. They are not experts on all
topics. Buggy patches has been applied.
The more people look over it the better. This is true for both fpdoc
and wiki.
 
> Patches via Mantis has infinitely more chance of being reviewed (at
> minimum glanced over once by a trusted expert) than the 10's or 100's of
> changes made in the Wiki every day.

I doubt these numbers. Especially since infinitely is not a number. ;)

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Michael Schnell]

On 04/11/2016 01:12 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

... and we are talking about Lazarus documentation here


Of course at this location we are.

But a documentation decently usable by the Lazarus "customer" needs to 
cover  (at least) IDE, LCL, the language, the compiler, RTL, and the 
most common packages.


Anyway: just dreaming. Volunteer driven systems never get there.

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 12:00, Michael Schnell wrote:
> 
> Maybe you do remember that (with your help) I once tried to contribute 
> to the fpc help.

1) If you can type, you can contribute.

2) The other thing you need to know:
 http://wiki.freepascal.org/Creating_A_Patch

That's it!


> mail, maybe it had been included in the next release of the fpc help (at 
> least a year later).

FPC documentation is timed with FPC releases. So that only happens one a
year at best. So obviously you will not see updates sooner. The Lazarus
project releases much more often, and we are talking about Lazarus
documentation here.



Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Michael Schnell]

On 04/11/2016 12:30 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

What's so hard about this:


Maybe you do remember that (with your help) I once tried to contribute 
to the fpc help.


I failed to do this in a decent way (I finally sent in the text per 
mail, maybe it had been included in the next release of the fpc help (at 
least a year later). I id not dare to check.


I'm not going to try to contribute to the help until I'm retired (which 
is not that far away ;-) ).


-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 11:50, Mattias Gaertner wrote:
>> > Currently with the wiki, rubbish can be added and no review is done! 
> You could say the same for the fpdoc files.

Uh? I don't believe that anybody takes a patch from Mantis and applies
it blindly without actually looking at the patch. If they do, that is
very sad news for the Lazarus project.

Patches via Mantis has infinitely more chance of being reviewed (at
minimum glanced over once by a trusted expert) than the 10's or 100's of
changes made in the Wiki every day.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Michael Schnell]

On 04/11/2016 12:18 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

Currently with the wiki, rubbish can be added and no review is done! The
wiki is the best of the worst.
Of course (and as I said) the wiki for the help needs to be managed. The 
writer needs to see what he did (at best integrated in the help view of 
his local IDE), but for others to see (i.e. a release) one of the 
"powers" need to review it .


Of course the standard Wiki software does not provide the necessary 
features (such as only "personal" update until review/release, enforcing 
certain rules for providing decent conversion to the target help text 
formats.


That is why I said: a lot of work.

No it does not make much sense to discuss this here, unless somebody 
with a lot of spare time stands up and says "I'll take it on" ;-) .


- Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:18:25 +0100
Graeme Geldenhuys  wrote:

>[...]
> Currently with the wiki, rubbish can be added and no review is done! 

You could say the same for the fpdoc files.

IMO review means someone else reads it and reports/fixes errors. This is
done for both though in different form.
The Wiki has a problem with spammers though.

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Pretty neat stuff Lazarus

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 05:30, hfiandor wrote:
> I am using the Window8.1.

For a start, have you actually downloaded and installed the HLP help
viewer? As far as I know the HLP viewer does not ship with Win7 and
later any more. It is now an extra download from Microsoft.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] Pretty neat stuff Lazarus

[hfiandor]

Dear Graeme:

I have the same problems to install the Delphi5.hlp an consults when
require. Please, let me know how to do exactly. I am using the Window8.1.

Thanks
Ing. Héctor F. Fiandor Rosario

> New questions:  Can I use my Deplhi 3 help files?  These are old-style
> .hlp files, not .chm.

I'm sure you can, but then you need to have a Linux or FreeBSD .hlp help
viewer. WINE includes such a viewer, but not everybody wants to install
WINE.  Also take a look at DocView and INF help. It will take you 2
minutes to set up, and it doesn't matter which version of Lazarus you
use. Also no rebuilding of Lazarus is required. DocView is set up using
the External Tools functionality of Lazarus IDE.



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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 11:04, Michael Schnell wrote:
> Unless 
> you go a very hard way to be able to compile the complete help system

What's so hard about this:

  fpdoc --project=lcl-docs-project.xml --format=html
or
  fpdoc --project=lcl-docs-project.xml --format=chm
or
  fpdoc --project=lcl-docs-project.xml --format=ipf
or
  fpdoc --project=lcl-docs-project.xml --format=rtf


You don't need all those *.sh or *.bat scripts, makefiles or custom
console tools any more. FPDoc has made it dead simple to generate
documentation with the help of a fpdoc project file. Project file
support has been around since FPC 2.6.2 or 2.6.4 - not sure which.

[...few seconds later...]

To my surprise, it seems Lazarus doesn't include a fpdoc project file
for LCL. I'm happy to contribute mine. I'll submit it to Mantis now. In
fact I see the http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 10:59, Michael Schnell wrote:
> that might be able to allow for possible volunteers to do contributions 

As Mattias mentioned, Lazarus IDE even includes a fpdoc editor built-in.
You can't get easier than that! You don't even have to leave the IDE.
Then simply generated a patch and post it to Mantis (like all other
contributions).

Somebody will review the patch and apply it as soon as possible. At
least that way the documentation gets a review and can be rejected if
there are mistakes.

Currently with the wiki, rubbish can be added and no review is done! The
wiki is the best of the worst.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

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Re: [Lazarus] help writing help [was: Re: Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation]

[Lukasz Sokol]

Hi Jürgen,

On 09/04/16 13:38, Jürgen Hestermann wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 2016-04-09 um 13:26 schrieb Michael Thompson:
>> What?  How's that going to work?  I prefer my open source projects
>> alive and kicking :-( I'm not interested in theoretical "wouldn't
>> it be nice".  I agree that it would be nice if we have
>> documentation, and I like putting a plan in place to forward this.
>> But the proposal above is insane.
> 
> It highly depends:
> 
> If you think that open source projects are *exclusivley* for those
> people who contribute on it and who are so involved that they don't
> need any documentation because they already know everything and have
> the time to keep track on all changes then, yes, there is no need for
> documentation.
> 
Hmm, try putting out proposal like this on lkml...

On a more serious note:

Unless what you're doing with Open Source/Free Software is fairly trivial,
and a general-purpose solution exists that fits your needs, 
then you don't really need to contribute to anything, 
because the problem has already been solved.
You can use binary stable releases and be the happy receiver at the end of the 
chain.
You can settle on just configuring it, writing a script or two in 
$favorite_scripting_language sometimes, etc.

A programmer/developer of anything based on Open Source solutions, isn't 
ANYTHING of the above, IMO.


> But if you want to attract a wider audience of people who just use it
> then documentation is essential. Otherwise you have to answer the
> same questions here over and over again (or ignore them and let
> people use other, better documented tools for programming).
> 

People involved, whether only as users, or as contributors, in
projects based on c-like languages of similar size to FPC/Lazarus, 
they ALL DO THAT. Go read some lkml or kernel-newbies for examples
how a MUCH LARGER community handles this...
(Luckily FPC and Lazarus aren't so big that a fpc/lazarus -newbies mailing list 
would be needed...)

Coders choose to code and do minimal documentation (e.g. comments),
others choose to document what the coders wrote. That creates movement
and discussion, helps coders correct themselves if need be, keeps the project 
alive.
But it needs input and contribution.

And (Object) Pascal is infinitely MORE readable than any c-like lang.
We should be able to do the same so much easier, just by looking at code.


That's facts, as I see them.

-L.


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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Michael Schnell]

On 04/11/2016 11:26 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:


Yes, it's called "fpdoc" and have been around for years!


Of course I do know this.

I did play with it.

Its a kind of "Write only memory": you don't see what you did. (Unless 
you go a very hard way to be able to compile the complete help system on 
your local PC.)


It's a perfect means to shy away any volunteers.

-Michael



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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Michael Schnell]

On 04/11/2016 11:26 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
Wiki's are only good for knowledge base - adding random thoughts as 
pages - loosely linked together by cross-links. It is terrible as a 
help format/medium.


While I do see your point I can't think of any other authoring system 
that might be able to allow for possible volunteers to do contributions 
(as has been the wish of some previous posters).


Of course strict rules would be needed to be defined and (at best 
automatically) be enforces to allow Wiki pages to (automatically) be 
converted to help content. That is why it's obvious that setting up such 
a system would be a lot of work and would bind a lot of manpower for a 
decent amount of time. So supposedly no chance. :-( .


-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 10:26:40 +0100
Graeme Geldenhuys  wrote:

>[...]
> Yes, it's called "fpdoc" and have been around for years! It takes a
> minute or two to generate your own help in whatever format you prefer -
> HTML, CHM, INF, TXT etc. Users can contribute by supplying documentation
> patches. It also solves all the above mentioned wiki problems.

There is a simple fpdoc editor built-in the IDE for identifiers
(View / FPDoc Editor). It allows even lazy programmers to easily add
a sentence about an identifier. Just place the source editor cursor on
an identifier, write a short explanation in the fpdoc editor - done.
It also allows to create fpdoc entries for your own projects/packages
with a simple click.

For topics and examples you can use LazDE.

See here:

http://wiki.freepascal.org/FPDoc_Editor

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Lukasz Sokol]

On 09/04/16 18:14, Juha Manninen wrote:
[...]
> So, here are the rules:

> 1. You can ask technical questions to help you solve your programming 
> problems.
> 2. If you start to contibute yourself (very unlikely) then you have
> right to criticise the development process, although a decent person
> would not do it much even then.

>From my own perspective, of a casual user (that did not contribute anything 
>meaningful so far)
this seems a bit overboard: you'll end up having only 'pats on the back' around,
and no more of a bit more critical input. 

Yes critics can be tiring and I can see your point that they are... 
(aside from, whether they know, what they are talking about, or not)
but without them, or if you ignore them by default, you'll never get 'the 
bigger picture' input.
You will only get the view of the convinced ones. 

Such is the nature of this trade, that when lots of people are required to 
focus hard on what they are doing,
to get decent results in their chosen part of the field, switching contexts is 
hard. 
For people less trained, it is even harder.
(obligatory xkcd : https://xkcd.com/309/ [there likely was another one, more 
fitting, that I can't find quickly now])

> 3. Attacks against FPC/Lazarus developers must go to your personal
> blog somewhere. There already is an infamous blog against CodeTyphon.
> You can write something similar against Lazarus.
> 

Hmmm... 
I read this mailing list / newsgroup (through gmane) daily.
I do not appreciate having to go to some obscure web space blog, where the 
author of a post has omnipotent
powers to shut discussion on a topic [as is the case with blogs] when he 
wouldn't like the comments
he would (inevitably) get if he did that. 
At least here, there is not just you who can, and want to, rebuke the likes of 
J.H.

> Juha
> 

-L.


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Re: [Lazarus] [solved] Re: Filtering shown files in TShellListView

[Bart]

On 4/11/16, Marc Santhoff  wrote:

>> I didn't see it in OI, was too lazy to look it up in the source.
>> Looks like a property that should be published?
>
> I think so. I only found it when I wanted to start implmenting it myself
> while looking at the list population code. ;)

Done in r52165 (trunk).
Since this is not a bug, it will not be merged to 1.6 fixes branch I think.

Bart

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 09:11, Michael Schnell wrote:
> (e.g. by using a single managed Wiki exclusively as the root 
> of the articles)

Wiki's are only good for knowledge base - adding random thoughts as
pages - loosely linked together by cross-links. It is terrible as a help
format/medium.

The other problem with the wiki. Too many hands in the pot and no
control of who edits what. So somebody could add rubbish or inaccurate
information, and the next person will read that thinking it is correct.

Also there is no wiki help per Lazarus release. eg: Can I see the wiki
help for when Lazarus v1.0 was released? NO!


> is open for volunteers to provide fixes and additions 
> and actually see "live" what they did without waiting for the next 
> Lazarus release.

Yes, it's called "fpdoc" and have been around for years! It takes a
minute or two to generate your own help in whatever format you prefer -
HTML, CHM, INF, TXT etc. Users can contribute by supplying documentation
patches. It also solves all the above mentioned wiki problems.



Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
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My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

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Re: [Lazarus] Pretty neat stuff Lazarus

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 02:10, Alan Corey wrote:
> It was 20 megs until I turned optimization on and debugging off, then
> it went down to a little over 4.

LCL pulls in a lot of baggage. With other toolkits, and based on your
application, that can be reduced to a third of that size, yet still have
all the same functionality. ;-)

> that when I rebuild the IDE it doesn't write the new version to
> /root/.lazarus/lazarus, it stays in /usr/local/bin.  I'll figure it

As Sven said, never run Lazarus (or anything really) as root. I've
suggested this many times before... Install FPC from the official FPC
installed available on SourceForge. Install it to your home directory
(eg: /home/alan/devel/fpc-3.0.0/). Then use Git or SVN to get the
Lazarus source code (eg: /home/alan/devel/lazarus/). The do a 'make
bigide' and you are done!

No issues with write access or other permissions, no scattered files all
over your system etc. This method has worked for me for years under
Windows, Linux and FreeBSD.


> New questions:  Can I use my Deplhi 3 help files?  These are old-style
> .hlp files, not .chm.

I'm sure you can, but then you need to have a Linux or FreeBSD .hlp help
viewer. WINE includes such a viewer, but not everybody wants to install
WINE.  Also take a look at DocView and INF help. It will take you 2
minutes to set up, and it doesn't matter which version of Lazarus you
use. Also no rebuilding of Lazarus is required. DocView is set up using
the External Tools functionality of Lazarus IDE.

On a side note:
 Regarding your screenshots of a conversion tool. Take a look at
Unimesur, created by Jean-Marc - a fpGUI contributor. It has conversions
for anything you can think of, is translated to French and English,
includes built-in help and can even print results or conversion tables
to PDF. All in a 800KB download.

  http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/community.shtml


Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

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Re: [Lazarus] PDF generator: please test

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-11 02:17, Dmitry Boyarintsev wrote:
> I always assumed it represents text as a sequence of glyphs, rather than
> sequence of characters. But it seems like both options are possible.

No, your first assumption is correct. When it comes to PDF, there is NO
notion of text strings (sequence of characters). PDF only understands
graphical elements (lines, rectangles, curves etc). The PDF creator
breaks text down into character ID's (something like Unicode codepoints
- but again PDF's know nothing about Unicode either). Those character
ID's are used to look up Glyph ID's in the font file. The Glyph ID's are
what are stored inside the PDF. When viewed, those glyph ID's are used
to retrieve the vector graphic instructions from the font file to render
a glyph.

You might view a PDF with a text editor and see text strings. It might
look like text strings to you (eg: ASCII range), but PDF doesn't
consider them text, but rather ID's. It is pure coincidence that they
happen to look like text in a text editor.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
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My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp

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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Michael Schnell]

On 04/09/2016 04:24 PM, Vojte(ch C(ihák wrote:


Therefore I'd like to say here (loudly) that I was always (and I'm 
now) happy in Lazarus and FPC community (forum, ML, bugtracker) and 
developers and other people always helped when I needed it. Thank you.




+1 !!!

While of course the Lazarus system suffers from some historical 
shortcomings, imported from several Delphi versions and introduced by 
the IMHO not perfectly drawn line between the fpc RTL and the LCL, 
everybody needs to be happy that there is Lazarus in the rather great 
state as it is. Of course non - standard targets (like deeply embedded 
stuff, Rich internet applications, just to name a few) are less actively 
supported than the normal Windows/Linux/Mac Desktop. But work is done at 
many frontiers.


Thanks AGAIN,
-Michael
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Re: [Lazarus] PDF generator: please test

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-04-10 09:23, Michael Van Canneyt wrote:
> Font substitution is a potentially huge subject. 
> I would not want this in the initial low-level API.

Indeed. The *nix libXft.so library with combination of FontConfig does
this for general desktop applications, but it is a huge task. Windows
doesn't do font substitution at all for desktop applications.

As for PDFs, the problem is handled in two ways as per the official PDF
spec.

 1) if you embed a font, but the character glyphs do not exist for that
font, you use GlyphID 0, which should draw a rectangle in place of
the glyph.

 2) if you don't embed a TTF font, all the font information will still
be written to the PDF. The PDF viewer (no matter the platform) can
then try and use the exact font, if it is available on the current
system. If not, the PDF viewer uses the font information to
substitute it with a font from the same family.

Both cases are already implemented in fpPDF.

Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Michael Schnell]

On 04/09/2016 04:07 PM, Giuliano Colla wrote:


Because without a minimal amount of documentation all this valuable 
work risks to be useless, because:

- nobody except a few core developers know of its existence
- nobody except the developer itself knows how to use it


There already have been lots of discussions on a reform of the help 
system that (e.g. by using a single managed Wiki exclusively as the root 
of the articles) is open for volunteers to provide fixes and additions 
and actually see "live" what they did without waiting for the next 
Lazarus release.


AFAIK this is a too great task to be considered doable in near future.

-Michael

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Re: [Lazarus] Pretty neat stuff Lazarus

[Sven Barth]

Am 11.04.2016 03:10 schrieb "Alan Corey" :
> Installing and running as root seems to present a strange problem in
> that when I rebuild the IDE it doesn't write the new version to
> /root/.lazarus/lazarus, it stays in /usr/local/bin.  I'll figure it
> out.

You should not run Lazarus as root. Of course it will then place new
binaries in /usr/local/bin, because it *can*. As a normal user it can't and
thus it's falling back to ~/.lazarus.

Regards,
Sven
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