Re: [Lazarus] Cannot compile trunk from rev. 52266

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 9:38 PM, Marco van de Voort  wrote:
> svn blame points to r52209, Juha

Oops, right. Fixed in r52287. Thanks for noticing.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] jcfidelazarus JEDI Code Formatter cannot handle generic and specialize keywords

[Juha Manninen]

Patches are welcome to the current JCF parser or to implement a new
formatter based on CodeTools.
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=19754

Actually basic generics syntax already works.
This JCF parser however must be updated separately when new compiler
features come out, and it has no maintainer.
Maybe some of you guys can become a maintainer?

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] where do I put project wide conditional define?

[Juha Manninen]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:17 PM, Dennis  wrote:
> Where do I put
> {$DEFINE USE_XYZ}
>
> so that when I rebuild the project, fpc will see USE_XYZ is defined.

In Project Options:
Compiler Options -> Custom Options - > Defines ...

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Jürgen Hestermann
 wrote:
> Of course, nobody here wants to miss any of the current state of Free
> Pascal/Lazarus.
> So anybody who was/is involved in coding here can be thanked very much.
> But does that mean that any discussions about improvements is forbidden?

I overreacted and used stronger words than necessary. Sorry about that!
The issue itself was valid though. Your emphasis was that current
developers should do more and better work.
It is a little sensitive issue in a purely volunteer based project. If
you had some idea of improving things yourself, things would be
different.

See, a commercial product works differently. Its developers are
filtered and isolated from user feedback more. Feedback and bug
reports come from support channels and personnel. Requirements come
from marketing through development managers. And developers get salary
which compensates any possible negative feedback.
It means people can write ugly things about for example Delphi in
public programming forums as a funny "small talk".
It is not personified to anybody (much anyway) and the developers can
continue undisturbed.

Open source is more ... open!
Voluntary people work because they want to. They are not pushed by
anybody else to it.
How can it work? It is something very subtle and fragile. The
motivation comes exactly from the freedom.
Between developers there are never demands like "you must do that
feature because I say so". The freedom to do or not to do is a "holy
ground".
Even projects that have a dictator (Lazarus project has none) do not
impose such demands. Otherwise the project would be forked very
quickly.
The highly open and transparent development model + the fragile
motivation based on freedom makes an open source project vulnerable to
attacks.
Communication in mailing list goes directly to developers without
buffering or filtering or middle-men.

One more thing:
I wrote earlier "arguments were pure lies meant to agitate people"
which was out of context.
The context were some forum flames, especially the pro-/contra-CodeTyphon war.
If somebody does not know what happened, send me a personal mail and I
give a recap.
I will NOT return to that topic more in a public list.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Trying to work around "Illegal character in format string"

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Alan Corey  wrote:
> Should I have maybe removed ~/.lazarus?

The local config is backwards compatible and updated automatically but
soemtimes after experimenting a lot it can become corrupt. Then you
can delete it.

> I still can't get the chmhelp package to install, even after
> upgrading, rebuilding the IDE, restarting.  It's mentioned in
> ~/.lazarus/idemake.cfg and ~/.lazarus/staticpackages.inc but it still
> shows with a green +.

You installed to a write protected dir /usr/local/share/lazarus, right?
When you rebuild the IDE as normal user, the new binary goes to your
home dir under ~/.lazarus.
Instead of "lazarus" you should run "startlazarus". It checks where
the latest binary is and starts it for you.
I am sure it was documented somewhere ...

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 7:44 PM, Jürgen Hestermann
 wrote:
> Just ignore them if it you don't want to discuss them.

Even after filtering I would see replies for your mails.
However that is not the point. The point is that you feel justified to
attack Lazarus developers in their own mailing list for not doing
enough work for you.
I could somehow understand your attitude if this was a commercially
backed project and some big company used it for their business +
compensated the developers financially.
No, this is a purely volunteer based project without any commercial
support. Developers, including me, don't get payed!
You and me are in the same position. Both of us like this project for
some reason. I decided to contribute to make it better. You desided to
attack the very people who contribute and make it better ... horrible
person ...

I could take you a little seriously if you had contributed something
but you haven't. Not even one small contribution.
From my experience I am quite sure you will not do it in future either.

So, here are the rules:
1. You can ask technical questions to help you solve your programming problems.
2. If you start to contibute yourself (very unlikely) then you have
right to criticise the development process, although a decent person
would not do it much even then.
3. Attacks against FPC/Lazarus developers must go to your personal
blog somewhere. There already is an infamous blog against CodeTyphon.
You can write something similar against Lazarus.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 6:47 PM, Bart  wrote:
> While I understand your sentiments and emotions, I think it is
> unneccessary to mention specific names here.

Based on my earlier experiences I think it is very important to mention names.
Even the biggest flame-wars roll around just few agitators.

Unrealistic demands like:
 "Do not implement any new features until all existing features are documented!"
already got support from new users who don't understand the psychology
behind the attacks, nor do they know how much effort from the
developers it required to bring the project into its current state.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Michael Thompson
 wrote:
> You say minimal, code analysis says Average.

Comments are overrated.
If you think of them as "deodorant masking fishy code" then less
comments is better.
What would really help are high level documents of IDE internals.
Diagrams and textual description. My favorite diagram is Sequence
Diagram because it shows both actors and cronological order.
Such documents would help only (potential) developers of the IDE, but
that is already very useful.
Why is it not done?
I think because they help only initially when learning certain code.
The same understanding comes from reading and browsing code, but it
takes longer time.
That's why the developer who knows the code has only little motivation
to draw diagrams.
Anyway, after the initial understanding is got, everybody must read the code.
Thus diagrams are not necessary but the sure would make the project
more attractive to new potential developers.

Are you good in drawing diagrams?

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Giuliano Colla
 wrote:
> Because without a minimal amount of documentation all this valuable work
> risks to be useless, because:
> - nobody except a few core developers know of its existence
> - nobody except the developer itself knows how to use it

LCL is documented more or less.
I guess you mean the IDE internals are not documented. It is true,
their documentaion has low priority compared to public libs.
I also would love to see high level diagrams and other docs about the
IDE. Like always, somebody must do it.
Maybe you ... :)

Juha

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[Lazarus] Bashing the developers

[Juha Manninen]

Regarding posts from Jürgen Hestermann.
Unfortunately this is not the first time he finds excuses to blame
Lazarus developers.
The main theme is that developers have done a poor job and did not
serve him well enough.
Earlier it was about the new Unicode support. All the work I had done
for it was irrelevant, he wanted to emphasize how poorly I had done
the job.

This all reminds me of the horrible flame wars against FPC/Lazarus
developers mostly in the forum. Many of the arguments were pure lies
meant to agitate people and it worked well because there was nothing
to stop them.
The people with admin rights were afraid to do anything because they
would get all the blame.
Things escalated into surreal proportions.
In the horrible CodeTyphon flame war I took initiative and finally the
issue calmed down. Yes, I took lots of mud on me during the process.

I have learned that no logical reasoning helps with such agitators.
We need some rules instead. This is the "home" of our project. All
important communication happens here and in the forum.
Nobody should be allowed to come here only in the purpose of attack.
For example: If I dislike some people, I don't go to their home to
attack them and shit on their floor. Instead I stay away.
The same rule should apply here. If somebody does not like us, he
should write a hate-blog or something but stay away from our home.

Every healthy and strong community needs ways to protect itself.
This project need them, too.
I know the flame-wars have caused motivation problems for developers
and maybe caused them to leave. They have also scared away potential
future contributors.
Something must be done. I myself feel strongly unmoticated after
reading the attacks.

When somebody takes the effort and contributes something, he
inherently "buys" voting power for the thing he implemented.
Then he also has moral rights to criticise the work of other
developers, but that right is not used much among the developers /
active contributors.
They understand how much it takes to contribute stuff. Why would they criticise?

Thus, I want Jürgen Hestermann to make a public apology for the
developers he has attacked here.
Further attacks should go to a personal blog somewhere. I promise to ignore it.

For future needs, do we a have a mechanism to ban people from this list?
In forum the threads can be locked, posts deleted and accounts banned.
Those tools were used at least during the CodeTyphon episode.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** help writing help [was: Re: Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation]

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 3:05 PM, Jürgen Hestermann
 wrote:
> I just see it is a waste of time if someone is forced to read and
> understand code that someone else has written ...

Nobody forces you read or understand code!
I think you should find another project if this is not good enough for you.
I don't even suggest that you contribute something yourself because I
know it will not happen. I have seen this mentality before. You will
find excuses to blame Lazarus developers indefinitely, and find other
excuses why you cannot contribute yourself.
Go away troll please!

> What I would vote for is:
> Do not implement any new features until all existing features are
> documented!

Fortunately you don't have voting power here. This is not a democracy.
This is meritocracy.
If your kind of people had true voting power, this project would be
dead already.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Giuliano Colla
 wrote:
> An answer such as: "Your patch is good, it adds a desirable functionality,
> but without proper documentation, nobody will be able to take advantage of
> it. Please add some concise comments on variable and procedure usage, and we
> will be glad to commit it." would do a lot of good, IMHO.
>
> Should this become a general rule, the situation might strongly improve with
> time.

Giuliano, you have contributed code yourself. I did not expect such
nonsense from you.
Your own code was equally good with other Lazarus code. It had about
the same amount of comments which was fine.
Rejecting patches because they don't have enough comments would have
only negative effects.
Well written code does not need much comments.
"Comments are like a deodorant masking the smell of fishy code that
could be improved."
as sourcemaking.com so well describes:
  https://sourcemaking.com/refactoring/smells/comments

So, your suggestion would only reduce contributions without any
benefit. Typically such ideas come from people who only want to bash
the developers. "Do this and that and then contributions start to
flood in." For some reason those people have no intention to
contribute anything themselves...

Poorly written patches are already rejected and their authors are
guided how to improve them. Things are in order in that front. Most
patches now get accepted or rejected reasonably quickly.
Why all this valuable work from me and from other developers is ignored?

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 9:33 PM, Alan Corey  wrote:
> OK, I was just hoping for a sentence or paragraph to be added to the
> documentation.

Welcome to open source.
Instead of complaining here and wasting everybody's time, you could
have improved the documentation yourself and provide a patch.

You also happened to trigger Jürgen Hestermann's passion to bash
Lazarus developers with whatever excuse, but that is not your fault.
We should impose some rules for such people. From experience I know it
can escalate indefinitely. Such people feel they have right to use a
free tool and then complain about how bad service they have got and
how the developers should do more and better for serve him.

One more thing:
Copying the whole e-mail thread history in your message is bad.
Please copy only small snippets that you want to answer to or comment.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Feature Request: Insert {codepage UTF8} per default

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Bart  wrote:
> In my fantasy scenario the String would of course have the meaning of
> UnicodeString.

That is not anyhow better (or worse) inherently than a UTF-8 based solution.
Delphi just happened to implement it so, for various reasons.
The surprise is that our system is so Delphi compatible even while
having a different encoding.

> The tests I posted in this thread were plain fpc programs,
> so no use of LazUtf8. It pointed out that the Lazarus part of
> the wiki (Better Unicode support) could be interpreted wrong.

No. You interpreted it wrong for some reason. The page is only about
the new Unicode support which is very clearly mentioned there!
You don't have to use the UTF-8 mode which is explained in another page :
  http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_with_FPC3.0_without_UTF-8_mode

The main message however is that the new mode should be used unless
there is a very good reason not to. That's why it was made default
when LazUtils / LazUTF8 is used.
For console apps you must add the dependency / unit explicitly but it
does not change any facts about the mode.

Anyway, the original issue was about inserting {codepage UTF8}
automatically to every unit.
We can conclude it is not a good idea. It does not solve anything when
using plain constants with default String type but adds conversion
overhead. It breaks things when using constants with ShortString and
PChar.

It only improves things with UnicodeString constants which is not
necessarily needed at all, but can be used with added {codepage UTF8}.
Simple, no hassle!

Besides I feel the problems are exaggerated again.
The problems discussed here are only about constants.
The automatic conversion between variables works always.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Feature Request: Insert {codepage UTF8} per default

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Bart  wrote:
> in this scenario adding {$codepage utf8} may be the wise thing to do:
> it eliminates all confusion about the intended encoding of the string 
> constant.

How is a conversion to UTF-16 and then back to UTF-8 less confusing
than a direct copy without conversions?

> When you use UnicodeString everywhere and no AnsiString anywhere, then
> the only confusion left is Endianess,or am I (as one of the Universes
> idiots) oversimplifying here.

I doubt you will change every "String" into "UnicodeString" in your code.
Somehow you missed the fundamental idea of our new Unicode system.
"String" has Unicode and you don't need to care about it, or even
about endianess.
Delphi reaches the same goal by mapping String -> UnicodeString.
When you need Ansi codepages then you need to pay attention obviously,
otherwise not.

Bart, were your earlier results caused by NOT using the new Unicode support?
I am surprised if that is the case.
The whole discussion was about the new Unicode support and you have
been testing it since the beginning.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Feature Request: Insert {codepage UTF8} per default

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Bart  wrote:
> [...]
> I would say that this experiment contradicts the statement in
> http://wiki.freepascal.org/Better_Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus#String_Literals
> ?

If your "s1" is a plain String then something has changed. IIRC it worked well.
I am out of energy for the string encoding issue and I don't even have
a proper Windows system to test with.
Could maybe Mattias, you, Michl and whoever take care of the issue please.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Feature Request: Insert {codepage UTF8} per default

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:12 PM, Michael W. Vogel  wrote:
>> The cases fail with UTF-8 file encoding.
> I don't understand this.

I meant that some cases fail even when the file encoding is UTF-8.
File encoding is not the issue.

>> http://wiki.freepascal.org/Better_Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus#String_Literals
>
> And the first example there is wrong (or the words "and without" need to be
> removed). With no defined codepage
> const s: string = 'äöü';
> has codepoints of a UTF-8 String, the codepage is 0. If you assign it to a
> string with a declared codepage, you get a corrupted string. See my example.

I editor the page and separated 2 cases:
  const s = 'äöü';
and
  const s: string = 'äöü';

Please check. In a forum discussion it turned out they behave
differently. It may even be a compiler bug.
I cannot test it right now. Could you please edit the page as needed.
Anyway, how often do you need to assign a constant to a string that
has an explicitly declared codepage?

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Feature Request: Insert {codepage UTF8} per default

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Bart  wrote:
> The IDE at least runs fine (in my locale on Windows) with -FcUTF8.

Lazarus IDE does not have string constants beyond 7-bit ASCII.
Encoding does not matter obviously.

> (I have it there because I build all my projects with this define,
> because almost all of them contain some strings with diacritics)

Do your files have UTF-8 encoding? It is a necessity for the Unicode
system to work.
Any valid UTF-8 string should work, including diacritics.

> Curious though: in what scenario's does it fail?

See the forum link I gave earlier.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Feature Request: Insert {codepage UTF8} per default

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:38 PM, Michael W. Vogel  wrote:
> With the hack that the LCL makes and the added {$codepage UTF8} all
> conversions work like a charm (see added testproject).

Conversions in your testproject may work, but you ignored the forum
link I gave earlier. There "malcome" gave examples that fail.
BTW, the hack is not made by LCL but by LazUtils which can be used
also with cmd line / server programs.

>> LCL applications nowadays use CP_UTF8 as default. We (laz team) tested
>> adding -FcUTF8 and it failed in too many cases. Also it adds some overhead.
>> So we decided to *not* add it by default.
>
> I also don't want it. I want a added {$codepage UTF8}, if the file is saved
> as a UTF-8 encoded one.

The cases fail with UTF-8 file encoding.
All files created by Lazarus IDE are by default saved with UTF-8
encoding, thus you would get {$codepage UTF8} in every file which is
the same as -FcUTF8 for the whole project.
Adding -FcUTF8 is already extremely easy. There is a button for it in
Project Options -> Custom Options page.

The issue with constant string encodings is more complex than you seem
to understand.
It is explained here somehow:
  http://wiki.freepascal.org/Better_Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus#String_Literals

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Feature Request: Insert {codepage UTF8} per default

[Juha Manninen]

Ok, FPC had UnicodeString earlier than I remembered.
Currently WideString is often used with WinAPI when UnicodeString
should be used, as Marco reminded in another discussion.

Anyway, the problems found by Michael W. Vogel and "malcome" all deal
with constants. Assignment between variables always works thanks of
their dynamic encoding.
If there is doubt about how a constant is interpreted, it can be first
assigned to a "String" type variable which can then be typecasted to a
WinAPI's UnicodeString parameter or whatever.
In the worst case scenario an extra  "String" variable is needed.
Or, if one wants to use UnicodeString constants in a unit, he can add
{$codepage utf8}. No big deal.
IMO the problems are exaggerated.


On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Martin Schreiber  wrote:
> If one wants to handle BMP-chars comfortably and with good performance one has
> to convert from utf-8 in AnsiString to UnicodeString first.

Maybe, but BMP-chars are not enough for a proper Unicode support.
Besides, dealing with codepoints is the easy part regardless of
encoding. The associated problems are exaggerated again.
The true complexity of Unicode is beyond codepoints.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Feature Request: Insert {codepage UTF8} per default

[Juha Manninen]

No, originally we had -FcUTF8 set by default but it caused more problems.
See:
  http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?topic=30022

> In the most cases the string magic works without a defined {$codepage utf8},
> but not if you want to assign a const to a Predefined String or Unicodestring.

I don't know what is a a Predefined String but assigning a const to
Unicodestring can be seen as a special case and then a programmer can
take special actions (add {$codepage utf8} himself).

Leaving out {$codepage utf8} is the most backwards compatible way, and
the operation is most intuitive.
With Unicodestring we don't need to care about backwards compatibility
really because it is so new type.
What more, Unicodestring is not needed often when using our new Unicode system.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] LCL exports CC-licensed icons to every LCL application

[Juha Manninen]

Ok, I should read the dev-list discussion more carefully.
My head does not work well with licensing details. For free and open
source stuff it feels like a useless extra complication. I understand
it is only me and the reality is more complex. I happily leave this
issue for others to solve.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] LCL exports CC-licensed icons to every LCL application

[Juha Manninen]

Ondrej, what is the fuzz about icons now?
No author of icons has complained. The famfam icons are free anyway.
Lazarus project acknowledges their origin and thus does not violate
anything.
Yes, all applications using LCL must acknowledges them, too, but it
should not be a problem. It is just one line of text somewhere. We can
emphasize its importance in a ReadMe file or somewhere. No big deal...

For some reason this reminds me of the war against CodeTyphon. Some
people used any excuse to attack them and/or Lazarus developers. It
went out of proportions completely, and the fundamental ideas of open
source were turned upside down in the process.

Your icon crusade is going out of proportions, too. Are you really
going to break the IDE with an IFDEF?
Does it mean everybody must explicitly acknowledge famfam icons before
he gets a working IDE.

Juha

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[Lazarus] Preview of minimized window on taskbar

[Juha Manninen]

Could somebody with Windows knowledge please look at this:
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=13397

Is it a valid issue still?
If yes, then try to apply the patch to current Lazarus trunk.
It has been ignored for very long time.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Default keymapping adapted to OS X

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:
> If there are no objections I can do that.

Yes please.
My understanding is that the mappings for OS/X are not only different
but also limited. They have not been updated as diligently as the
default for other platforms.
I guess that was the fundamental motivation for the patch.
I was hoping comments from other OS/X users, too.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Mark Morgan Lloyd
 wrote:
> I'll leave somebody else to comment on the current status of GTK3, which I
> think would be of general interest.

It would need somebody to finish the implementation and to maintain it.
Anybody?

The design made by Zeljko is easier to maintain than the current GTK2
binding is, but there is still a lot to do.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Bo Berglund  wrote:
> If this means that Raspbian is using LXDE is beyond me but it seems
> like it is using gtk3 by this wording.
>
> When I try to find a gtk3 setting inside Lazarus I only do so in the
> dialog Tools/Configure_BuildLazarus, where it is contained in a
> dropdown box labelled "LCL widget type" and named "gtk3 (alpha)".
>
> There seems to be no way to build an *application* with gtk3 without
> rebuilding the whole Lazarus environment first, is this the case?

Are you saying you still don't understand the difference between a
widgetset and a Linux desktop environment, after building Lazarus
under many Linux distros and after participating in many mailing list
discussions? I am not sure if I will believe you.


> I only started writing in this thread because I also fond the same
> behaviour as the original poster did and it seemed like that report
> was shunned as being bogus.
> So I wanted to chip in with my observations to help *the developers*
> to nail down and fix the problem, but now I find I am being flamed for
> doing so so I will stop this.

No, the complaint was that you ignore replies from other people, then
repeat the same issues and questions that were explained and answered
already.
It is unpolite.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Bo Berglund  wrote:
> I have no idea what you mean by this statement...
> What is LXDE and how do I test Lazarus for LXDE?

Bo, I have a strong feeling that you are playing dummy. Why do you do it?
You must know the concept of desktop environments since you tested
many distributions already. A simple google search would reveal that
LXDE is a desktop environment.


> In this environment the gtk2 is still selected but the form sizing
> issue is not apparent.

Yes, the widgetset is GTK2 unless you have explicitly configured it
for QT, as I wrote in my previous mail.
Anyway, the problem is quite surely LXDE dependent.


>>Then could you please find the revision that broke things under LXDE.
>>Raspberry may be too slow for bisecting, you must do it using a faster
>>computer.
> Now you are talking mystery again. I do not understand how I could do
> this...

I explained the bisect process in an earlier mail in this same thread.
I will not repeat it here.
Bo, do you read the replies from other people? Sometimes you seem to
ignore them completely.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Luiz Americo Pereira Camara
 wrote:
> According to a previous message he is using Mate

Not in his Raspbian in Raspberry Pi2. It most likely has LXDE although
he has not confirmed it.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

On Mar 5, 2016 4:48 PM, "Bo Berglund"  wrote:
> I looked at Lazarus Tools/Configure "Bild Lazarus" I see that the LCL
> widget type is set to gtk2.
> That is the same as in my Linux Mint 17.3 Mate installation.

Yes, the widgetset is obviously GTK2 unless you have explicitly configured
it for QT.
Could you please confirm that the problems happen only with LXDE, as I
asked earlier.
You have apparently tested with other desktops, too, for example Mate.
Then could you please find the revision that broke things under LXDE.
Raspberry may be too slow for bisecting, you must do it using a faster
computer.
Explaining the same problems here repeatedly does not help. We believe the
problems are real.

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

steveg has Lubuntu with LXDE. I guess Raspbian also has LXDE. This may
be a LXDE related issue.
Please confirm.
Then you guys should find which revision broke it for LXDE or if it
was always broken.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Procedure List dialog regressions

[Juha Manninen]

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys
 wrote:
> I'll also create a patch to "more officially" save/restore
> the column widths.

Maybe that should wait a little. Ondrej is making a generic
configuration API for storing column widths of all IDE ListViews.
ProcedureList can use the same.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Péter Gábor  wrote:
> Yes! I'm updating mantis with the information immediately...

Most likely a GTK2 library version dependent issue.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:00 AM, Bo Berglund  wrote:
> I checked out the release tag for 1.6 when I installed Lazarus 1.6.
> That should be what you need to find the revision number.

I didn't quite understand you but for bisecting you need trunk.
Then use the binary search algorithm, O(log2(n)). Go back to an old
revision that works. Split the rev range in half, checkout the middle
rev, build and test. Then split the remaining area either backward or
forward depending on the test result, and so on ...

The process is error prone, one wrong jump spoils it.
Git has a bisect command which lets you do "git bisect good" or "git
bisect bad" eliminating the range calculations and making the process
easy.
You can use either the Lazarus Git mirror or the SVN repo directly
using "git svn" link.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:58 PM, Bo Berglund  wrote:
> Do you mean that if I select the form and use Object Inspector to set
> Constraints I am getting to the wrong place?
> If so exactly how do I reach this new local menu?

Object Inspector is the right place to set Constraints, yes.
Select the Constraints title and then right-click.
The entries for setting Min and Max values has been there since
Lazarus 1.4.x IIRC, so they are not really new any more.

> As I stated in my reply a short while ago I also have this behaviour.

I don't. Just tested again.
Somebody please bisect the guilty revision that caused the bug for you.

Regards,
Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Form Resizing

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:01 PM, steveg  wrote:
> Not too sure if its the same here. Mine seems to be only limited to not
> resizing 'below' the original size.
> Other than that, all works fine

I would say you have accidentally set Constraints. It now has local
menu entries to set the Min and Max values.
Could that "accident" happen in all new tests? Ok, maybe not.

Péter, did you bisect for the guilty revision of your bug?

P.S.
Please people quote only relevant text and then write your reply under it.
Mixing different quote styles makes it difficult to follow the thread.

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Re: [Lazarus] Procedure List in Lazarus IDE

[Juha Manninen]

On Feb 26, 2016 3:03 PM, "Graeme Geldenhuys" 
wrote:
>
> > I turned ProcedureList into a proper IDE window in r50908.
>
> Juha, please revert that patch - it broke Procedure List completely!

Reverted in r51478.

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] Procedure List dialog regressions

[Juha Manninen]

I reverted r50908 in r51748. I think only that one revision was involved.
I planned to work on the issue sooner but something else always came up.
It is also true I don't fully understand the original filter logic. I
must study it later.
Currently I am travelling with a mini-laptop and won't do real development now.

Graeme, do you know how to fix the other regressions that happened
sometime earlier, like the missing icon thing? Patches are welcome.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Official/recommended citations for scientific papers

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Žilvinas Ledas  wrote:
> @book{Person13,
>   Title= {Getting Started with the Lazarus IDE},
>   Author   = {R. Person},
>   Publisher= {Packt Publishing Ltd},
>   Year = {2013},
>   Address  = {United Kingdom}
> }

That contains errors. Not a good reference.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Procedure List dialog regressions

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys
 wrote:
> Ondrej, I think you last worked on this? Not sure if you are still busy
> with this, otherwise I'll raise bug reports in Mantis for it.

Actually I am the guilty one. I made it a modeless IDE window and used
ListViewFilter component for the filter.
Yes, some things broke more. On the other hand the behavior felt
partly broken already earlier.
Earlier you mentioned other things that broke already before my edits,
like missing icons. I don't know what caused them. There is another
mail thread about it.

Don't report yet. I will look at this within coming 2 weeks.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Feature Request: hide button text in windows with toolbars

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys
 wrote:
> In fact, I have a 12 hour flight coming up where I need to kill some
> time. Maybe implementing some of these ideas as a prototype/suggestion
> is a nice way of making the time fly by. ;-)

Wow, the configurable button text/icon feature was discussed already a
long time ago.
There is also a Mantis issue :
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=22278
Somebody only must implement it.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] non Unicodode application

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Michael Schnell  wrote:
> Sorry I did not  intend to express any negative attitude, but on the
> contrary am very happy that Lazarus/fpc can provide exactly that
> functionality (8 bit Strings - including TStrins, pos , etc - in a 64 Bit
> application) that (AFAIK ) is not possible with Delphi (which I don't have).

Ok, then I misunderstood.
The new UTF-8 system has been criticised, rightfully so, for changing
the String default codepage to UTF-8 and loosing the original Windows
system codepage.
In ideal situation FPC would allow changing the encoding of String but
leave AnsiString as is.
Now String = AnsiString and our solution is a semi-hack, although much
less of a hack than the old explicit UTF8...() conversion functions.
Still, in my experience the solution is good. In a typical situation
dealing with Unicode I/O it works like magic. When dealing with
Windows system codepage, few lines of explicit conversion are needed.

I have also learned that the encoding wars are quite useless. It is
possible to write code that works with both main encodings at source
level, by using String for individual codepoints and with some helper
functions.
The real complexity of Unicode is beyond encodings.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] non Unicodode application

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Michael Schnell  wrote:
> Now a friend of mine is faced by a similar task. But here he wants to keep a
> (small) GUI and he does not want to go for Linux but for 64 Bit.

Both Delphi and FPC now support 64-bit. I don't know how that relates
to dynamic String encoding.

> But the challenge is rather similar, and again there *might* be hope to 
> convert
> a professional application and programmer team from Delphi to Lazarus.

Sure there is hope. See the new UTF-8 support:
  http://wiki.freepascal.org/Better_Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus

The only problem comes if you depend on Windows system codepage a lot.
That's why there is :
  http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_with_FPC3.0_without_UTF-8_mode
Note: Even there FPC 3.0 still has the dynamic string encoding but it
is still useful.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] non Unicodode application

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Michael Schnell  wrote:
> Any automatic type conversion would kill the application.
> [...]
> will this be possible with future versions of Lazarus ,as well ?

I guess you mean automatic encoding conversion for strings. (?)
The automatic conversion is NOT a feature of Lazarus. It is a feature
of FPC 3.0+.
If you don't want it then you can continue using FPC 2.6.4. It is a
valid choice in some cases, thus Lazarus will support FPC 2.6.4 for
some time to come.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] non Unicodode application

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Michael Van Canneyt
 wrote:
> Just use RawByteString as stringtype for all parameters and variables
> in calls where  you don't want code page conversions to occur. The compiler
> will not touch the codepage then.

Ok, true. That works, too. :)

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] non Unicodode application

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Michael Schnell  wrote:
> I think that it is *very* desirable to provide configuration options to
> provide full backwards compatibility (while still allow to use as many of
> the new features as possible when explicitly writing coding for this).

Uhhh...
Michael Schnell, how is it possible you behave like a complete newbie
with FPC's String encoding issues, after so many years of arguing
about it in various mailing lists?
Please show some respect to the people who made it work and even documented it.
For example these questions :

> That would mean that the type "String" is 8 Bit  ?
> That would mean that 8 bit Strings are used in TStrings and hence in 
> TStringList ?
> That would mean that (e.g.) storing 8 bit "String"s in a TStringList would 
> not do any conversion at all ?
> And it would mean that pos() and friends work on 8 bit Strings (and wist 
> simple byte-positions and length)   ?

... were answered in the wiki pages I linked to you, and they are
obvious after just minimal testing.
If you find a bug then let us know, otherwise please show some
positive attitude. The new UTF-8 system "just works" in most
situations.
I remember you repeated the same arguments against FPC's new String
type in FPC lists during many years again and again.
Let's not do the same here.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Package editor in Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 12:06 AM, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:
> And what was the bug?
> It does not sound like a bugfix, so I'm a bit worried that it went to
> 1.6RC2.

Most changes were made before 1.6 was branched. They don't need to be
only bug fixes then.
For example the AddMore button change is from last May which is half a
year before 1.6 branch:

 r49046  Package editor: Replace AddMore button with a popup menu.
Step 1. to improve the GUI. Issue #28097, (modified) patch from Alexey
Torgashin.
and
 r49096  IDE: Improve adding a new file to package, reuse the "New..."
dialog. Issue #28097, patch from Alexey Torgashin.

The only commit merged into 1.6 that was not really a bug fix is from
December 15 :
 r50815  Package editor: Duplicate the "Add" button's menu items in
tree popup menu. Part of issue #28097.
It was kind of part of the improvements I wanted to finish and is
rather safe. It only adds menu items for existing functionality.

Also look at the related issues, like:
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=26188
Many usability issues were fixed. Only the last one was merged to 1.6,
others happened before it.
IMO the package editor is now smooth and nice.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] lhelp broken for Lazarus 1.7 r1.5 FPC 2.6.4 x86_64-linux-gtk 2

[Juha Manninen]

Please test with r51434.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Package editor in Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:53 PM, Michael Van Canneyt
 wrote:
> Requirements must still be added one at a time; The requirement dialog shows
> a dropdown.
> ...

Yes, that is true. There should be either a CheckListbox or a Listbox
with multi-select.


> If you select a required package in the package dialog, the bottom of the
> package dialog shows the min/max required version. This is easy to change
> it.
>
> In the project dialog, if you select a required package, there is no way to
> set the min/max required version. You must delete the requirement, and add
> it again, because only during the add you can specify the version.
> It would be nice to offer the same functionality as in the package dialog.
>
> As an aside:
>
> I also think it would be nice if the min/max versions were simply shown in
> the package tree.

Ok, there is an old bug report about it.
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=20377

I will look at these issues later.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] lhelp broken for Lazarus 1.7 r1.5 FPC 2.6.4 x86_64-linux-gtk 2

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 7:03 PM, John Landmesser 
wrote:

> tried to compile lhelp with my  r51428 shows me these messages:
>
> Kompiliere Package TurboPowerIPro 1.0: Exit code 1, Fehler: 3, Warnungen: 2
> iphtml.pas(12184,6) Warning: User defined: Setting these font colors and
> name messes up the alignment for some reason
> iphtml.pas(12202,7) Warning: User defined: TODO Set Font size from CSS
> Value
> iphttpbroker.pas(86,11) Error: identifier idents no member "AllowRedirect"
> iphttpbroker.pas(87,11) Error: identifier idents no member "MaxRedirects"
> iphttpbroker.pas(130,15) Error: identifier idents no member "IsRedirect"
>
> So no lhelp available!
>

The members are part of fcl-web's fphttpclient. I guess they are new in FPC
3.0.
Silvio, would it be easy to add IFDEFs to support compilation with FPC
2.6.4. We plan to support it also in Lazarus trunk for some time to come.

John Landmesser, it compiles with the latest FPC release. I can recommend
it unless you have a good reason to stick with FPC 2.6.4.

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] [OT] Why Mantis doesn't notify the changes?

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 7:43 PM, silvioprog  wrote:
> For example, I can't receive any notification related to this issue:
> http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29483
> And I think that Juha can't receive any notification too. :-/

In fact I did not receive notifications about that issue. I receive
them about many other issues though. I don't know what is the logic
here.

Anyway, I have noticed your patches. I am about to apply them. Don't worry. :)

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Package editor in Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 7:44 PM, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:
> What bug was fixed with this patch?
> ...
> Changes should be documented:
> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_1.6.0_release_notes#IDE_Changes

Ok, I added a "Package editor" section there.
Reducing two "Add" buttons to one button was the biggest visible change.
There were many other changes to make it smooth to use. Yes, it uses
my new ModifySilently concept which conflicts with your earlier
concept. Some method names should be fixed but otherwise I still feel
it is an easy and clean way to do it. You should look at it sometime
later.

> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Package_Editor

Uhhh, that needs more updating. The screenshot must be updated for sure.
I will look at it tomorrow.

Juha

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[Lazarus] Package editor in Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

Forgot to write earlier...

The package editor has been improved in RC2.
See this + its related issues :
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=28097
The changes were partly inspired by ideas from Michael Van Canneyt and others.
See this mail thread :
 
http://free-pascal-lazarus.989080.n3.nabble.com/Lazarus-Package-dialog-tt4041400.html#none
[^]

Opinions?

I did not understand the request for a better editor of requirements.
IMO they can be edited very well now.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 8:40 PM, Howard <h...@talktalk.net> wrote:
> On 17/01/2016 13:00, Juha Manninen wrote:
>> Howard, for curiosity, your patch has: LCLVersion = '1.6.0.2' The menu
>> editor is developed in trunk 1.7. Are you using a fixex_1_6 version for
>> editing? Juha
>
> Yes, the code I worked on was the latest trunk (well perhaps it was from the
> day before). The IDE I used was 1.6.0. Does this matter?

I forgot to answer this earlier.
No it does not matter. It only means that you must open 2 different
IDE versions, one for editing and one for testing your changes.
I personally use the same binary where I did my changes. Usually it
works well enough. Sometimes rarely I break it badly and then I use a
backup binary which I have copied to another name.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Opening non existing files and (not) adding them to the project

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Mattias Gaertner
 wrote:
> It works here on GTK2/Ubuntu. I can choose a non existing file.

I guess you mean you can type a name of a non existing file.
You cannot choose it because by definition it does not exist.

I have Xubuntu 15.10 with XFCE now. Can it make a difference? The
window manager of XFCE behaves strangely sometimes. I can test with
another distro later.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Testing Unicode and Windows system codepage in Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 8:20 AM, Jürgen Hestermann
 wrote:
> Now that is cynical!
> Telling those who do not know anything about what
> has been developed over the last years
> to write the documentation theirselfs.

No, my point is that I will not continue doing it. Somebody else must
take charge. If nobody wants to do it, then bad luck for you.
I have done my share for a feature I don't even use myself. I added
the define + basic documentation for it and applied some patches from
Michl to fix its bugs.
Are you saying that I should feel guilty now for not maintaining it further.
This is how voluntary open source works. Basically people scratch
their own itches. If somebody feels this DisableUTF8RTL feature is
important then he improves it. If nobody feels so then it will not be
improved. Simple as that.


> Not the developers who know what they changed
> and what they had in mind when doing so should
> document their work but those who just use it.

Yes, it is already documented here:
  http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_with_FPC3.0_without_UTF-8_mode
However the future maintainer should add more examples and explain how
to solve problems that come up.


> For whom is the documentation meant at all?
> Why not drop it and everything is fine?
> The code is there, just read it!

Exactly! Why don't you do so?
You and me are in the same position. Neither of us gets paid for
improving Lazarus. Both of us can improve things we feel important.
Tell me, why don't you improve the feature you apparently consider important?

> I think with this attitude the whole project is doomed to fail.

Right. What about your attitude?
Why do you attack people who actually created some substance for this project?
Why don't you attack the people who did not create any substance? It
would be more logical IMO.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Docking search results

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:
> No, it is not. It is opened if you saved your desktop with search result
> dialog opened. If you saved your desktop with search result dialog closed,
> it won't be opened.
> If you have enabled "auto save desktop" option and you close the IDE with
> search result dialog opened, of course it is opened the next time.
>
> This is correct behaviour. Do not change it!!! E.g. some people want the
> search result dialog have docked or opened by default.

Yes, actually I have the "auto save desktop" option on.
I will keep it off and the problem is solved.

> Why do you want a special treatment for the search result dialog?

I thought nobody wants to see search results before he actually
searches something. Maybe I was wrong.
It was about undocked IDE as I wrote. Docked layout changes things of course.
Anyway, problem solved, no changes needed.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Opening non existing files and (not) adding them to the project

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Sven Barth  wrote:
> Don't shock me like that, Juha.
>
> The IDE actively asks me whether I want to create a new file if I open a non
> existing one and it should definitely stay that way.

Ok, you and Mattias are right.
The OpenDialog in TMainIDE.mnuOpenClicked has no ofFileMustExist flag.
I got confused with changes I made for Delphi converter dialogs.

Anyway the file open dialogs in GTK2 and QT don't respect the omitted
ofFileMustExist flag. They behave like it was set. That is another bug
clearly.
I got the question about creating a new file only using Windows
version of Lazarus.

Can you find what revision caused the original problem you described?

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Docking search results

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:
> For me the search result dialog isn't initially opened in the undocked IDE.
> Tested on Windows/win32.

It is opened if it was left open when Lazarus was closed previously.
The nature of that window is such that I want to see it only after
actually searching something.

@Sven:
> Ah, thanks. Will the reversal also be part of the final 1.6?

Yes. It didn't make it to RC2 unfortunately.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Testing Unicode and Windows system codepage in Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

Jürgen and taazz,
The DisableUTF8RTL system indeed is a fall-back for people who cannot
use the new improved UTF-8 system.
The automatic encoding conversion may do tricks when you still must do
explicit conversion to/from UTF-8 using the old clumsy functions.
I don't know about all the issues involved. I don't plan to use it
myself. It is not part of my interest. The wiki page explaining it
should be improved and maintained by people who actually use the
system which means Jürgen, taazz, michl and others.
Now the wiki page has too few examples.

My interest has been the new UTF-8 system. It works much better than I
could imagine.
Anybody who plans now to move their code to Lazarus 1.6, please try to
isolate Windows codepage conversions into functions. UTF-8 then works
automatically like magic outside of those functions.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Opening non existing files and (not) adding them to the project

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Sven Barth  wrote:
> Back in 1.4.x when I opened a non-existing file and I confirmed that I want
> to have it created the file was not added to project or the project's 
> mainfile.
> [...]
> Now with 1.6RC2 I noticed that such files are added to the uses clause of
> the main program file and the project inspector.

You cannot open a non-existing file, meaning that you cannot use the
File -> Open dialog for it. There is now a "FileMustExist" or similar
flag. I remember it fixed some bug but don't remember which one.
IMO it is logical because you can by definition only open existing
files. If a file does not exist, you must create it instead.
The right fix could be to ask if a newly created file should be added
to project which means useless questions for most people.
Or, maybe the best way is to create a file somewhere else (editor,
file manager, cmd line etc), then open it. Even an empty file can be
opened.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 1:11 AM, Howard  wrote:

> You'll realise I'm on a learning curve. This is my first significant code
> contribution to an open source project. I actually never thought I had the
> skill to offer a new menueditor. It was a forum comment by the late
> BigChimp some years ago about the previous menueditor which first got me
> thinking about its shortcomings, why it was so difficult to
> improve/maintain, and how a replacement might be designed to be better in
> that respect; and several developers said a complete rewrite was the only
> way forward. Months became years and no one as far as I could see was
> working on a replacement. So I decided to bite the bullet, and started to
> look at relevant bits of the IDE code (much of which I still don't
> understand). I've been learning on the job, as you plainly see...
>

Talking about BigChimp, there is an open bug report from him:
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=25457
I think it can be resolved already. He may have confused Name and Caption.
The visible property is Caption and the WYSIWYG editor must modify it,
which it now does. Other properties should be left for Object Inspector.
The KISS principle applies here, too.

Anyway we have a good situation now as many people work on the menu
designer. At least its structure allows it to be modified. The old menu
designer was weird. Many people tried to improve it but finally gave up and
noted that it should be rewritten. Usually I can refactor code to make it
more modular and easier to maintain but with that code I didn't know how.
So yes, this had to be done. I believe after some initial pain we get a
good menu designer.

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Péter Gábor  wrote:
> If no one else is currently working on the resourcestrings issue I will
> try to finish my patch and post it on mantis...
> This is more simpler than writing a lot of letter about what and how to
> fix to be translation friendly.
>
> Do you agree?

There is a patch from Howard:
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29411
Actually I thought somebody else will take care of it. Now I assigned
it to myself.
Péter, can you please look at it and maybe attach your improved patch
to the same report.

Howard, for curiosity, your patch has:
  LCLVersion = '1.6.0.2'
The menu editor is developed in trunk 1.7. Are you using a fixex_1_6
version for editing?

Juha

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[Lazarus] Testing Unicode and Windows system codepage in Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

The RC1 and RC2 versions have been tested for a while now but we have
not heard any complaints about the new improved Unicode support.
Does that mean it works perfectly?

Windows is of biggest interest. There the new UTF-8 support breaks
existing code when it depends on system codepage.
For that reason LCL can also be used without the new UTF-8 support by
defining "DisableUTF8RTL".
The relevant wiki pages:
 http://wiki.freepascal.org/Better_Unicode_Support_in_Lazarus
 http://wiki.freepascal.org/Lazarus_with_FPC3.0_without_UTF-8_mode

Feedback please.

This is from taazz, copied from the "New menu designer" thread:

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 5:35 AM, taazz  wrote:
> Well I'm stuck on lazarus 1.4.4 for the foreseeable future mostly because
> 1.6 made a pretty aggressive jump to utf8 and I do not have the time nor the
> inclination to retest every line of code that I have based on unicodestring
> and widestring and partly because testing new lazarus versions gets longer
> and longer each year. So I'm going to change the old one to fit my needs,
> although I like the look and feel of the new one.

LCL continues to work as before when you define "DisableUTF8RTL". Then
AnsiString is coded with the system codepage by default. The UTF-8
conversion functions still work.
Supporting this backwards compatible mode became a high priority
because you and some others expressed concerns about the default UTF-8
encoding.
Are you saying you will not even test the "DisableUTF8RTL" mode? Its
known bugs were fixed already. More feedback would be nice.

If you still decide to use FPC 2.6.4, you can do it with Lazarus 1.6.
It will be compatible for the life-cycle of 1.6.x.
Then AnsiString is 100% compatible with Lazarus 1.4.4 (obviously).
See, you can freely choose the best combination.

I don't know why you always find excuses to complain. It is not nice.
Please stop it.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Testing Unicode and Windows system codepage in Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Jürgen Hestermann
 wrote:
> You may have a false impression of how Free Pascal/Lazarus is used by most
> people.
> At least I did not wait until the current version to use Unicode (and long
> paths)
> for file names and others. I think many did so.
> Therefore we have build our own infrastructure/functions to work with the
> Windows unicode API functions. In this case using "DisableUTF8RTL" would
> be no option as it bombs us back to ANSI/short paths and still requires to
> do code changes.
> That's not good.

I don't understand how DisableUTF8RTL bombs your system because it is
the backwards compatible thing.
If your system worked with FPC 2.6.4, it should work with FPC 3.0 +
DisableUTF8RTL.
If it does not work then there are bugs which should be fixed.
Do you mean the A- / W- versions of WinAPI calls by the short/long path thing?
Enabling or disabling the UTF8RTL does not affect WinAPI calls. It is
a separate issue.


> So we need to live with the changes and understand the logic behind it
> (which IMO is much more complicated than before). The amount of time we have 
> to invest
> is unforseeable for us and therefore many get frustrated (especially,
> because the documentation is poor).
>
> I have done the changes to (some) of my programs now and it works quite okay
> but it was a hard time until this was finished (and I still don't know
> whether bugs lurk here and there).
>
>
>> I don't know why you always find excuses to complain. It is not nice.
>> Please stop it.
>
> Please stop ignoring and gibing those who have problems with the new unicode
> types.
> I know how they feel and such statements are not helpful.
> If you don't want to help then ignore these mails.

Excuse me! Are you really saying I have not helped with the Unicode issues?
I am amazed the system works already as well as it does.

> I know that those who have already worked on this for a long time
> cannot understand why not everybody instantly knows how the new
> codepage aware ansistrings work but be assured that for many this is
> completely new. So bare with our frustration and better ignore such
> mails than revile the writers.

In my mail I explicitly asked for feedback so we can still improve this system.
Yes, this is a very complicated issue. For example I am at my limits
of understanding / not-understanding the details, but still I tried to
improve things instead of complaining about how poorly the voluntary
developers have done the job.

I have worked on the DisableUTF8RTL feature although I don't use it
myself. Fortunately there were helpful people like "michl" (forum
name) who fixed bugs.
I also wrote some wiki pages. They are not perfect but they are better
than nothing.

Now we support 3 ways with Lazarus 1.6 :
1. The improved UTF-8 system with FPC 3.0. The default codepage of
AnsiString = UTF-8.
2. Backwards compatible system with FPC 3.0 by defining
DisableUTF8RTL. AnsiString uses system codepage.
3. Continue using FPC 2.6.4. All string types and encodings are 100%
compatible with earlier versions.

The 4. way will be a Delphi compatible UTF-16 sometime in future.

How to improve the 3 supported ways? The issues I know are that FPC
libs still use the old WinAPI calls in some places, and the
TFormatSettings separators issue. Are there other bugs? How to solve
them?

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Release Candidate 2 of Lazarus 1.6

[Juha Manninen]

A note about the Sparta docked form designer. The package is included
in 1.6 release but unfortunately it is not stable there. Many of its
bugs are widgetset dependent.
It has been improved in trunk already by Maciej and Ondrej but it
required changes also in LCL and in source editor. Such changes have a
risk of introducing regressions and could not be merged to 1.6.
AnchorDocking package also got many improvements but is still not perfect.
These features will be improved in trunk and released later (maybe
Lazarus 2.0). There may be other Sparta packages baking, too, and a
new menu designer works already well in trunk.

What if somebody wants to use the docked form designer but is hit by its bugs?
Then he must use trunk, a selected "sweet spot" revision like always
with new features.
Copying the Sparta package from trunk is not enough.

Anyway the new 1.6 release is surely justified and packs lots of goodies:
- FPC 3.0 with all its improvements.
- Improved UTF-8 system.
- Configurable IDE Coolbar
- Desktops feature
- Plenty of smaller improvements around. Read the release notes.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Where is the "Clone to new Window" option gone.. ?

[Juha Manninen]

It is caused by r51169
  "ide: sourcenotebook better PopupMenu handling. Fixes also issue 29295"
by Ondrej at 2016-01-03.

I reopened the relevant issue
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29295

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Video: Tool to aid in developing the Lazarus IDE

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 9:14 PM, Petr Hložek  wrote:
> What did you do to dock also Form itself like it's on the video?

Install package sparta_DockedFormEditor.
Unfortunately it is not fully stable in 1.6 release. See my other
comment in the Release Candidate 2 thread.

Juha

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[Lazarus] New menu editor's in-place "Edit Caption" feature + QT

[Juha Manninen]

The new menu editor has a nice feature.
Pressing Enter on a menu item lets you edit its caption without moving
to Object Inspector.
It does not work when IDE is built with QT bindings.
It this a known issue?

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Where is the "Clone to new Window" option gone.. ?

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Corpsman  wrote:
> But i miss the "Clone to new Window" option. Normaly when i click the
> right mouse over the Sourcecode tabs, there had been a popupmenu that
> offers this and some  other options, the menu is gone now ;(. is there a
> way to get it back ?
>
> If i get back to SVN Revision 50469 the feature is aviable ;), as you
> can see in the atteched picture.

You did not mention your widgetset but I guess it is GTK2.
All other widgetsets seem to work but GTK2 indeed has a problem.
Can you please bisect the code and find the exact revision that broke it.

Regards,
Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Where is the "Clone to new Window" option gone.. ?

[Juha Manninen]

See
 http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29195
It happened with GTK2. The popup menu has disappeared after it.

If you find the guilty revision, please add comment in that report or
open a new report.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus trunc and fpc 2.6.4

[Juha Manninen]

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 10:32 AM, John Landmesser  wrote:
> unit RLPrinters;

Where is that unit? I don't find it in Lazarus trunk.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Giuliano Colla
 wrote:
> Back to the original thread subject, IMO the best course is simply to remove
> the PaintSwastika procedure, which is out of place in a small collection of
> simple graphic shapes ...

Yes, I also realized how limited the selection of graphs there was.
Such a library should have everything or nothing.
And yes, the library does not belong to the project's core
distribution. Instead we should ASAP have an online package installer
which has been planned for long but still not implemented. I must lift
it up in my own priority list.

I still think such library is justified because it is not a collection
of image files but a code library drawing simple graph symbols and
flags on canvas. For a complicated graph an image file is better.
This library would also compete with Unicode text because Unicode now
contains many well known graphics, but fonts installed on a system may
not support them all.
The library could be made as a helper class for TCanvas thus making it
easy to use.

Anyway I am sorry for my strong comments. Opinions around this topic
inevitably insult and intimidate somebody.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Howard  wrote:
> It is the second patch submitted on issue 29205

Oops, I failed to notice it. Should it be applied?
I am happy if the issue is assigned to somebody else. Bart? Ondrej?
I have some other issues to look at.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:
> I'll apply it manually. The patch won't apply because I fixed some issues
> recently.

Assigned the issue to you. Thanks. :)

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus trunc does not compile with fpc 2.6.4 Win32

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:00 PM, leledumbo  wrote:
>> Isn't it possible anymore  to compile svn Lazarus with fc 2.6.4 ??
>
> No. Latest stable is the only one that's supported, latest stable is 3.0.0.

Actually we plan to keep Lazarus compilable with FPC 2.6.4 for some time.
Typically it should support 2 last versions of FPC. It would mean that
2.6.4 is dropped when 3.0.2 comes out.
Now however the new UTF-8 system breaks existing code when it depends
on system codepage on Windows. One way to solve the problem is to
continue using FPC 2.6.4. Lazarus compilation for 2.6.4 can be
maintained relatively easily. No need to break it anytime soon.

The problematic commit was r51233 by Ondrej. I planned to fix it but
Mattias did already.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 10:34 PM, Giuliano Colla
 wrote:
> But if you take a small collection where the only one politically relevant
> is the swastika, then you have a collection which is politically BIASED, not
> politically NEUTRAL.

This collection of shapes is quite limited indeed. One could say it was biased.
What if come up with library that draws all important symbols? Most of
them intimidate somebody when drawn separately, but a program can draw
them all in one canvas side by side.
People can look at them and see that they are just graphs. They don't
fight or anything.
The end result will be ... world peace!
Heh, one more problem solved. :)

Juha

P.S.
 Sorry for the heated discussion.

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 1:14 AM, Anthony Walter  wrote:
> I have five uncles, on both my mother's and father's
> side, who fought and died in WW2. When I've visited their graves in France
> and Hawaii everyone I met seemed to a good understanding of the war's cost
> in human life on both sides, and also the new connotations symbols like the
> Swastika had taken, for better or worse.

My relatives, including my would-be-uncle was killed by Russians, yet
I don't feel like I should advertise it in a programming mailing list.
Of course people in France and Hawaii know the symbol of the evil
Nazis because it has been repeated again and again in books,
TV-documentaries and Hollywood movies. It has been kind of
brain-washing. Even if the facts are correct, many other facts are
left out.
Think for example the victims of Stalin's genocide in eastern Europe.
They were called traitors and "enemies of Soviet Union" in the
propaganda. Their relatives had to live in shame. Nobody felt sympathy
for them. No Hollywood movies were made of their fate. Yet they were
good people just like your uncles.
To get more perspective, please read also other parts of the history,
not only the Nazi part.

I have seen similar attitude from English and US people before. Strong
feeling of being right, at the same time ignorance of many facts. I
can confess it irritates me.


> Even if you like the shape of the Nazi style Swastika, and have appreciation
> of its history in Finland, most everyone in the developed Western world now
> recognizes it as a symbol of Nazism, and by extension a symbol of
> prejudicial racism and hate.

Yes, because it has been repeated again and again. It must change! It
has been 3 - 4 generations already. It is time to see things in
historical perspective and stop punishing a graphical symbol.


@Mattias:
> The historic relativism in some mails are shocking and shows horrific lack of 
> historic knowledge.
> There was nothing good about the Nazis and it was their ideology and
> symbolism that got them to power and still attracts people to their twisted 
> beliefs.

Nobody here was pro-Nazi.
Your view of history is also strongly biased. You were taught that
your country-men did wrong. You learned your lesson, good.
However there are other horrible things done in the world but the
guilty parties did not got punished and didn't even feel guilty. It
means the world is very unjust. Nazis got what they deserved but most
other bad guys didn't.

Hence I stick with my plan and will put up a graph routine library
after consulting from Seppo.
It can contain any important symbol from human history without any
bias. It certainly must contain the Hammer-and-Sickle symbol, too,
although it has been for many eastern European people like the
swastika was for Jewish people. Any old religious symbol can be added
equally well.

Censoring graphs does not belong to the domain of an international
programming project!
We can show good example here by being completely neutral politically.
Besides it may be important for the future. When the project is pulled
into politics, it can escalate rapidly.

Political correctness is not desired if it means that a subset of bad
things can be criticised and everybody must agree with it, but other
bad things must be ignored.
No, this project must be politically NEUTRAL instead.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Marc Santhoff  wrote:
> Maybe this discussion can be closed when the names are mangled for
> political correctness and/or there is a clear statement added in the
> unit in question.

What is wrong with the names? The symbol is called "swastika".
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

> May it be in the documentation or some comments, so
> people understand the generic nature of those drawing procedures.

Why would people not understand the generic nature now?
The procedures draw graphics without any political pamphlets or such.
It is as generic as it can be.

You actually want to turn this project into a political one. Why?
Now you want a "politically correct" statement that we are contra some
ideology. The next step is add a statement that we are for some other
ideology.
Why?

What means "political correctness" exactly? Does it mean that one must
repeat the bad things done by Nazis well over 70 years ago, at the
same time ignoring other bad things and genocides done after it?
If so, I don't want to be politically correct.

I don't know what is going on here but guys hey, wake up!
It is year 2016 already.
There are many explosive spots around the world. Many dangerous
ideologies, groups and governments, but none of them are Nazis. Nazis
are part of history. Maybe it is time to move to this century now.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Terry A. Haimann  wrote:
> As someone of Jewish heritage I say get rid of it.

Mattias actually removed the function, obeying like a good German boy
when somebody with "Jewish heritage" tells him. Uhhh, I can't believe
he did so!

I planned to write "let's stop this nonsense before this project is
pulled into politics", but now it is too late.
Removing an ancient graph which is part of human heritage only for
political reasons has a strong symbolic meaning.
This project had no political or religious connections before this
thread, at least that I knew of.
The symbols drawn by the lib were not presented in any political
context. Nobody saw a problem during the years.
Anthony, I am surprised by your attitude and lack of perspective. Your
thread practically turned this project into politics. Damn!

Swastika is used in far East in Hinduism, Jainism, Buddism and others.
It is not only history, it is used currently today.
Its meanings are prosperity, security, glory, "good luck", "God's energy" etc.
Anybody from India reading this? This mail thread must appear rather
weird. Many Indian people don't know what Judaism or Nazism are
exactly, or at least don't have strong emotions about them.

More perspective: I would welcome a PaintHammerAndSickle procedure to
the lib from Dmitry, although it carries negative association in my
country and in other ex-Soviet neighbours, and for a reason.
Still, it is just a graph. The purpose of this project is not to judge
any graph symbol. They happen to exist for whatever reason.

Historical fact is that Stalin's governance killed MORE people than
Hitler's. He was MORE evil by any measurement.
He just killed a minority after another without any plan by pure evilness.
If you read what happened in countries occupied by Soviet Union, it
matches the Holocaust. However those people could not complain to
anybody, the propaganda made them look guilty instead.
Why was Stalin not convicted as a war criminal and hung? Well, because
he happened to win the war!
The history is always written by winners. I think it was politically
incorrect to write critically about him now.
However it is politically correct to criticise Nazis. When somebody
with "Jewish heritage" tells to remove an ancient symbol only because
Nazis happened to use it some 75 years ago, everybody must obey and
nod their heads in acceptance.
Uhhh, this sucks badly!

What about USA? They have attacked countries around the world during
decades, sometimes secretly, sometimes openly, killing people only
because they didn't happen to like the government. That is evil, too.
Should we ban all symbols associated with USA?

No, censoring graph symbols would be a never-ending swamp. This is an
international project but the world is unjust.
Always there is some group who is treated bad by some other group and
want to ban their symbols.
This project must be outside of politics! If there is a graph library,
it must be allowed to draw any important symbol.
Actually that is the best way to advance world peace. When symbols are
side by side, it dilutes their associations in people's minds and
makes them more neutral.

This library is for simple graphs which can be easily drawn
programmatically which is true for most old well-known symbols.
The Star of David qualifies for sure, as do most other religious
symbols. Some people may be offended by Star of David, namely
Palestinians who are treated very badly by Jewish people.
BTW, why is that? It looks like Jewish people learned only the
violence from their WW2 experiences.
Yes, I feel justified to ask this because you wanted to affect our
project for political reasons.

Anyway, I have a plan:
Seppo has made routines to draw many other graphs, including hundreds
of national flags. They don't belong to LCL but could be added as a
package with a demo application.
The procedures from ExtGraphics should be moved there as well. Then
more old well-known symbols can be added there, too.
The package will contain swastika, too. If somebody is not happy with
it, he must find a "politically correct" project then.

This project must not be "politically correct", it must remain
"politically neutral".

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Dmitry Boyarintsev
 wrote:
> Swastika = Nazis, by default these days.

Ok, this must be a cultural difference then. I have talked and read
about this symbol in context of historical use and current use in
India, and the word "swastika" had no such negative meaning then.
So big differences inside Europe.
Now I read its usage is completely banned in Germany and in other
middle European countries.
Uhhh, such a pity. I hope it will change soon. The symbol is so basic
and easy to draw and "obvious" that it surely is used for very long
time. Oldest reported uses are from 1 years ago but very likely it
is older.

Unfortunately popular symbols get negative associations sometimes. How
long it takes to get rid of them?
Now 75 years apparently is not enough. How about 100 years?
Napoleon conquered the world some 200 years ago. That is long enough
as nobody seems to have strong negative association with his actions
although he was quite a butcher, too.

Is there any way to speed up the process? This important symbol will
be tainted and wasted, I must always think what is the "polically
correct" way to deal with it. This sucks ...

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Anthony Walter  wrote:
> Europe has long  a history of anti semitism, something which most reasonable
> people recognize. Perhaps this is the cultural difference you're touching
> upon.

Ok, maybe the sentiments around those issues are still so strong that
it is hard for me understand. Antisemitism has not been a problem
here, we had other problems instead.
It means the symbol will be tainted for some time to come, probably as
long as I live, and I must adjust myself to that. :(

It is said that globalization removes cultural differences.
Fortunately not completely, in India they paint swastikas on clothes
and cars as a sign of blessing, road safety and good luck, and they
don't know of the negative meanings of that symbol.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Do we really need a PaintSwastika procedure?

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Dmitry Boyarintsev
 wrote:
> Fair enough.
> Here's the patch. (Anyone,) please create a bug report, so it could be
> applied.

Dmitry, you have full SVN write access, don't you? You can commit it
without any bug reports.
There could be more variations. Swastika has been drawn standing on
its side, clockwise and counter-clockwise, and standing on its corner.

It has a very long and rich history. It is a nice looking symbol and
for that reason has been so popular during the millenniums.
It is used in Russian Orthodox religion and many other religions
especially in Asia. It has been used in Finnish traditions and art
always. It was a symbol of many military air-forces including Finnish
air-force from its beginning.
And so on ...

>From Bart:
> Current state is that the Swastika now has very strong
> associations witj the Nazi regime and all the evil it stood for.

Then it is time to change that association.
Maybe it is a cultural thing but here most people understand the big
picture and don't judge the symbol itself.
Maybe you and Anthony don't know the history of that symbol? Please study it!
To me your opinions seem very narrow-minded, sorry to say.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] List of available defines

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 11:09 PM, Vojtěch Čihák  wrote:
> is there some wiki or other place with list of available defines (for
> trunk)?

No. I have a plan to make a feature to search all such defines in
project sources, maybe added to Project options, Custom options page,
Defines ... window. I have other plans, too, and this one has only low
priority. Anybody can steal my idea of course. (_Hint_)

> Currently, I have:
> Debug
> Verbose

I don't think those are used anywhere. There were provided as examples
in earlier Lazarus versions for the build defines GUI.

> WithSynMarkupIfDef
> EnableCodeCompleteTemplates
> EnableComponentPaletteOptions
> WithSynMultiCaret
> UseOIThemedCheckbox

Your list is a little outdated. The last one was replaced with
"UseOINormalCheckBox".

> but I guess some are obsolete and maybe there are some new, which I should 
> try.

Uhhh, there are plenty!
I would like to mention one : "DisableWrapperFunctions". I recommend
using it because the string function wrappers will be removed some
time later.

For other defines, if you Find in Files from Lazarus sources for
"{$ifdef verbose" you get 3415 matches. That is only for defines
starting with "verbose"!
Searching for a regular expression "\{\$ifn?def" gives almost 15000
matches. Browse them and you get all the defines in use.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] revision 51059 - lazbuild

[Juha Manninen]

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Michael W. Vogel  wrote:
> In the bugtracker are four tickets about it as I wrote here:
> http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29274

Actually there are five duplicate reports, all opened within few hours!
This is bad. A rule number one for using a bug tracker is to check for
existing reports first. It is even documented here:
  
http://wiki.freepascal.org/How_do_I_create_a_bug_report#Check_if_the_bug_is_not_already_reported

This mailing list thread would be enough even without reports. I notice it here.
Anyway the compilation error is fixed.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Howard Page-Clark  wrote:
> Yes, dictatorship is far more efficient than democracy.

True, but this is neither dictatorship nor democracy. This is more
like meritocracy. :)

>> There are other usability issues, too.
> Namely...?

Top level menuitems in a MainMenu can be selected but there is no
indication about it. Other items get a blue rectancle.

There is a graph at right and bottom side of a selected item. A new
item gets created when it is clicked. It happens so easily that items
will be created by accident. Maybe a new item could become "real" only
after some property is changed. On the other hand the accidental item
is easy to delete.
The graph itself looks interesting and maybe too strong. It is a
matter of opinion of course.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] ComponentPalette images size on HighDPI devices

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 11:53 PM, Sandro Cumerlato <
sandro.cumerl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've found a simple way to improve ComponentPalette usability on HighDPI
> touch devices.
> ...
> It is quite easy to enlarge buttons area (and improve usability expecially
> on touch devices), because the buttons size is hardcoded within source,
> look at the attached patch to see where it is located.
>
> It would be nice to add an option in ComponentPalette IDE Options section
> to let users change buttons size, it could be placed after Palette is
> visible checkbox and before Pages section.
>
> In my case 48x48 is good, but even 64x64 could be optimal.
>
> I haven't tried if something similar can be applied to IDE CoolBar buttons
> too, but it seems resonable to think about it as well.
>

Yes, it would improve usability in HighDPI systems. However I think it
should be automatic. When the system resolution gets higher, the images get
more space.
The next step obviously is to fill the space with bigger images. Then we
need 3 or more versions of every image.

However doing this for component palette + maybe IDE CoolBar is not enough.
At least TToolButton in LCL should support it, and maybe other controls
with icons. Then all applications would benefit.
IDE CoolBar is composed of Toolbars and ToolButtons, too.

If you code up with code to support that, I will be happy to apply it.
Initially reserving more space around icons would suffice, bigger images
would be used when they are available.

HighDPI issues are becoming more and more important as screen sizes and
resolutions keep growing.
We really must address it!

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] ComponentPalette images size on HighDPI devices

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:
> The correct place where to solve high-DPI issues is TControl.

How exactly?

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:
> Highlighting works fine on Windows. It doesn't work on Linux. I haven't
> checked OSX.

Strange. I have tested with GTK2 and QT on Linux and the Windows
version using Wine. They all behave identically in this respect.

There was talk about the left sidebar. I don't see a problem having
it. Its usability can be fine-tuned of course.
We have space to use. The GroupIndex feature should fit there, too.

Juha

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[Lazarus] Replacement for deprecated symbol "Lookup"

[Juha Manninen]

I try to clean out warnings from LCL. How to solve these?

Compile package LCLBase 1.7: Success, Warnings: 6
dbctrls.pp(1422,56) Warning: Symbol "Lookup" is deprecated
dbgrids.pas(1233,20) Warning: Symbol "Lookup" is deprecated
dbgrids.pas(3270,54) Warning: Symbol "Lookup" is deprecated
dbgrids.pas(3291,28) Warning: Symbol "Lookup" is deprecated
dbgrids.pas(4026,30) Warning: Symbol "Lookup" is deprecated

Regards,
Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Péter Gábor  wrote:
> Some examples of resourcestrings that can/must be merged
> ...

Yes, I didn't even notice that.


> Also a question: can this (new) menu designer implemented as a
> separate/installable package to allow the usage of old one?

No, my idea was to replace the old menu designer with a new one.
Something is wrong with the design of the old one. Everybody who has
modified and improved it says the same. Some improvements just feel
impossible without a complete rewrite.
So, this was the rewrite we were asking for.

I was hoping the author Howard Page-Clark would participate in the
discussion and improve his designer based on feedback. Maintenance is
always an important part of any code.
I have not studied details of the code yet but I plan to do it soon.
In any case, if I will be a sole maintainer of this code then I am
disappointed. I was hoping for a shared effort.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Replacement for deprecated symbol "Lookup"

[Juha Manninen]

On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 7:25 PM, Michael Van Canneyt
 wrote:
> Use Locate instead.

They are actually TField.Lookup properties. TField does not have Locate.
All the "deprecated" warnings come from Lookup getters which is implemented as :

function TField.GetLookup: Boolean;
begin
  Result := FieldKind = fkLookup;
end;

Maybe I just use "FieldKind = fkLookup". Easy piecy. Unfortunately
there is no hint message after the "deprecated" keyword saying like
"Use xxx instead". Such hints were not supported by FPC a while ago.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

Howard, as the author you also have voting power over the GUI.
Besides GUI design is difficult, there is never a "right" solution
that everybody would agree upon.
Yet I feel some things should be changed. All settings that duplicate
OI properties should either be moved to a bottom section of a popup
menu, or they should be removed completely.
Then the remaing GroupIndex feature from "Checkmark and radioitem
properties" dialog could be moved to the main window of menu designer
and the dialog then removed completely.

There are other usability issues, too.

I haven't seen crashes either. How to reproduce?

>From Kostas:
> Since the menu editor is redesigned, why not do it like in Windows Forms
> and NetBeans with the "inline editor" which is part of the form editor?

Good idea but how to implement it? It may not be a trivial task. We
can plan a future third iteration of menu designer to be an "inline
editor".

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.6RC1 on various platforms

[Juha Manninen]

On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Mark Morgan Lloyd
 wrote:
> Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> The good news is that it builds with FPC 3.0.0 on:
>>
>> PPC Linux, Debian "Lenny"
>> Raspbian "Jessie" on RPi2
>> SPARC OpenSXCE 2014 (approx. Solaris 11)
>> SPARC Linux, Debian "Squeeze"
>> x86 linux, Debian "Lenny" and "Jessie"
>> x86_64 linux, Debian "Jessie"
>
>
> Also on straight Raspberry Pi Debian (i.e. not Raspbian) from
> http://sjoerd.luon.net/posts/2015/02/debian-jessie-on-rpi2/
>
> An earlier attempt at this wouldn't compile Lazarus, this time I used the
> notes at https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/apds03.html.en as a
> checklist for what needs to be on the system, I think the really important
> thing was the console-setup package which looks like it's needed even if the
> idea is to run the system headless.

I am not sure if you saw this :
 http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,30500.msg194271.html
Apparently FPC works with MIPS but Lazarus does not. Do you have
experience with MIPS?
I may join the effort later and get a MIPS Creator to see why Lazarus
does not work.
However I am quite a newbie in compiling FPC for different
architechtures. Let's see...

Anyway, I appreciate your work with unusual platforms and CPU
endiannes issues + patches.
Different gadgets and so called TV-boxes can do personal computing
more and more in future. Their CPU and OS selection varies a lot.
BTW, I personally have an Intel-based passively cooled ASRock Beebox
as my main computer now. I am amazed every day about this gadget!

Regards,
Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus 1.4.4 fpc 3.0

[Juha Manninen]

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Santiago A.  wrote:
> Is it posible to use Lazarus 1.4.4 with fpc 3.0?

Yes but why would you do that? Lazarus 1.6 is almost here.
You may get problems with codepage aware strings when using Lazarus
1.4.4. Depends on use case of course.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 9:26 AM, taazz  wrote:
> stop f...ing with my system

Actually we are f...ing with Lazarus trunk, not with your system.
If you want a stable Lazarus, you should use the fixes_1_6 branch instead.
It is starting to look very good!

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:
> Yes, this is correct. Please test r51008 (also you, Juha).

PopupParent and PopupMode seem to work only with LCL-Win bindings.
With GTK2 and QT it behaves like any modeless IDE window.
But yes, this is the right solution. On Windows it behaves perfectly,
also with AnchorDocking. Support for other widgetsets can be added
later. Zeljko, do you have any idea how to do it?
This solution should be used for ActionList editor and CollectionItem
editor and maybe others, too.

BTW, I tested with Wine which apparently mimics Windows behavior
accurately in this case. Amazing how far that project has got. Ten
years ago it looked like a desperate project. (Almost as desperate as
Lazarus. :)

The other modal dialog + PopupMode=pmAuto that we discussed earlier
turned out to be a problem in my Xubuntu's XFCE window manager. It
behaves odd also in other situations, for example loosing focus from
source editor after a search etc.
I tested with OpenSuse Leap 42 + KDE and it worked well. However this
is not very important because I want to get rid of that particular
modal window.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Maxim Ganetsky  wrote:
> Also see:
> http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=18036

and these:
 http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=24546
 http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=24711

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Kostas Michalopoulos
 wrote:
> It seems to crash very often ...

How to make it crash? It does not crash here.

Juha

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[Lazarus] New menu designer

[Juha Manninen]

Hello

I committed a new Menu Designer by Howard Page-Clark in r50992.
See:
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29205

Please test.
It has some interesting design decisions. I initially see some things
that may need fixing:

1. The main menu top level items do not show any indication when
selected. They need some indication although it can be different from
the other menu items.

2. A popup menu for a menu item has "Create OnClick handler" and "Edit
Caption" entries side by side with the Add... and Move... items. They
don't make a good match. Those entries duplicate the OI functionality
and could be removed, or maybe moved to another section in the popup
menu.

3. "Checkmark and radioitem properties" dialog should be removed. It
is a modal dialog and always goes behind the menu designer. The menu
designer itself tries to stay on top.
The checkboxes can be moved to a popup menu section as checkable menu items.
They also duplicate OI functionality and are not really necessary.
The GroupIndex feature does not work. It can be moved to the menu
designer main window (and fixed).

I tested on Linux with GTK2 and QT.
Trunk is open for new features and improvements after 1.6 was branched.
Opinions of this menu designer please.

Regards,
Juha

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