Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Bart]

On 1/18/16, Lukasz Sokol  wrote:

> I'm with Howard here (and Matthias). It should be a default No if a change
> can not be reversed by just Ctrl-Z or Undo.

Obey widgetset behaviour.

> if a change
> can not be reversed by just Ctrl-Z or Undo.

Implement Undo for the menu-desgner will be on the wish list then.

Bart

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Lukasz Sokol]

On 18/01/16 10:36, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
> On 18.01.2016 10:42, Lukasz Sokol wrote:
>> Then maybe make the 'No' answer default here?
> 
> No. If I hit delete, I want to delete the button. The prompt is OK
> there but the default action should always be what you want to do ->
> "yes". Don't assume that people are dumb :)
> 
I am not...

However seeing that I am perfectly able to slip a finger off my Enter key
on MY keyboard and/or hit 'del' key and then Enter in one move,puts some 
perspective here ;)
(https://www.google.com/search?q=dell+rt7D50+keyboard)
(that actually happened to me, I do not always look at my keyboard while typing 
fast ;) )

Also, no, people are not dumb, their ability to invent new ways to cut corners 
is a fast moving target ;)
(especially if they think software is slowing them down)


> Btw. Howard had the "No" button default but I changed it.
> 
I'm with Howard here (and Matthias). It should be a default No if a change can 
not be reversed by just Ctrl-Z or Undo.

> Ondrej



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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 18.01.2016 14:03, Lukasz Sokol wrote:

Btw. Howard had the "No" button default but I changed it.


I'm with Howard here (and Matthias


As far as I understood Mattias' email, he did not say the dialog should 
default to "Yes".


Btw. I checked when deleting files in the default file manager (with DEL 
and also with SHIFT+DEL for permanent delete) and the results are the 
following:


Windows 10: default is "Yes" for both actions.
Kubuntu: DEL - no prompt by default, you can enamble the prompt, then it 
defaults to "Yes".

SHIFT+DEL - default is "Yes".
--
Mac OSX 10.8 (a little bit different): no prompt for move to trash.
When permanently deleting the files from trash, the prompt dialog also 
defaults to "Empty Trash"/"Yes".


So all OS I tested are pretty consistent, the default action is always 
the destructive one.



). It should be a default No if a change can not be reversed by just Ctrl-Z or 
Undo.


What if you accidetially hit delete then right-arrow and then enter? 
It's the same problem. You can play this all the time :(


Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Mattias Gaertner]

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:36:57 +0100
Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:

> On 18.01.2016 10:42, Lukasz Sokol wrote:
> > Then maybe make the 'No' answer default here?
> 
> No. If I hit delete, I want to delete the button. The prompt is OK there 
> but the default action should always be what you want to do -> "yes".

Actually the default button depends on the OS/widgetset. For example on
OS X the default for a destructive action should be "No".
On Windows the default is typically Yes/Ok.
Same for button order.

> Don't assume that people are dumb :)

People are creatures of habit.

Mattias

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 18.01.2016 10:42, Lukasz Sokol wrote:

Then maybe make the 'No' answer default here?


No. If I hit delete, I want to delete the button. The prompt is OK there 
but the default action should always be what you want to do -> "yes".

Don't assume that people are dumb :)

Btw. Howard had the "No" button default but I changed it.

Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Lukasz Sokol]

On 16/01/16 23:11, Howard wrote:
[...]
> In this particular instance of deleting a submenu (not just a single
> item) my motivation was not to make it overly complicated (though I
> appreciate it may seem so). It is quite possible a user may have
> spent 10 minutes designing a submenu with half a dozen items, and
> then hits the delete key accidentally. With a simple Yes/No dialog
> (especially if the the default button is Yes) it is all to easy to
> hit the wrong button and lose the last few minutes' work; [...]

Then maybe make the 'No' answer default here?

Long sentences are not always a good enough incentive to stop people
from accidentally pressing ENTER ...

But if someone actively pressed TAB to change to yes, then enter,
or used their mouse to click Yes, you can safely assume, that yes they meant it 
;)


> 
> Howard
> 
el es


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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Lukasz Sokol]

On 18/01/16 15:20, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
> On 18.01.2016 14:03, Lukasz Sokol wrote:
>>> Btw. Howard had the "No" button default but I changed it.
>>> 
>> I'm with Howard here (and Matthias
> 
> As far as I understood Mattias' email, he did not say the dialog
> should default to "Yes".

Heh you're right, he did not.

[...]

> So all OS I tested are pretty consistent, the default action is
> always the destructive one.
> 
OK. 

>> ). It should be a default No if a change can not be reversed by
>> just Ctrl-Z or Undo.
> 
> What if you accidetially hit delete then right-arrow and then enter?
> It's the same problem. You can play this all the time :(
> 
> Ondrej
> 

In development, maybe you're right. All is fair in software development ;)

I just happen to have a system here, where I have to log users actions.
But no amount of 'breadcrumbs' (action logging) is going to stop people
from complaining about default actions taken by just pressing 'yes' or enter 
all the time... that they
perceive as 'wrong answer'.

Their supervisors tend to tell us then, 'you should have stopped them from 
blindly selecting the wrong answer by default'...

We (still) get complaints that it's slowing them down, but then, it's now 'by 
design'.

At some point we resorted to disabling the default button mappings to keyboard,
so they HAVE to click buttons by mouse.

And they aren't 'dumb' people, oh no.

el es


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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 18.01.2016 15:51, Bart wrote:

Implement Undo for the menu-desgner will be on the wish list then.


+1. Changing properties in OI and deleting components already are 
supported by the Undo function. The menu editor should support it as well.


Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 17.01.2016 0:11, Howard wrote:
In this particular instance of deleting a submenu (not just a single 
item) my motivation was not to make it overly complicated (though I 
appreciate it may seem so).
It is quite possible a user may have spent 10 minutes designing a 
submenu with half a dozen items, and then hits the delete key 
accidentally. With a simple Yes/No dialog (especially if the the 
default button is Yes) it is all to easy to hit the wrong button and 
lose the last few minutes' work; and there is no undo facility 
implemented.
I may have written that dialog clumsily, but I wanted to avoid the 
possibility of an 'automatic' response which was disastrous. I quite 
agree a straightforward Yes/No dialog is simpler and more elegant, but 
it may not give a hurried user sufficient 'pause' to avoid 
accidentally losing valuable work.


IMO we shouldn't think people don't know what they are doing. If I hit 
DELETE on a menu item, I usually want to delete it :)



You'll realise I'm on a learning curve. This is my first significant 
code contribution to an open source project. I actually never thought 
I had the skill to offer a new menueditor. It was a forum comment by 
the late BigChimp some years ago about the previous menueditor which 
first got me thinking about its shortcomings, why it was so difficult 
to improve/maintain, and how a replacement might be designed to be 
better in that respect; and several developers said a complete rewrite 
was the only way forward. Months became years and no one as far as I 
could see was working on a replacement. So I decided to bite the 
bullet, and started to look at relevant bits of the IDE code (much of 
which I still don't understand). I've been learning on the job, as you 
plainly see...


I agree! +1.

Ondrej
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Juha Manninen]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 1:11 AM, Howard  wrote:

> You'll realise I'm on a learning curve. This is my first significant code
> contribution to an open source project. I actually never thought I had the
> skill to offer a new menueditor. It was a forum comment by the late
> BigChimp some years ago about the previous menueditor which first got me
> thinking about its shortcomings, why it was so difficult to
> improve/maintain, and how a replacement might be designed to be better in
> that respect; and several developers said a complete rewrite was the only
> way forward. Months became years and no one as far as I could see was
> working on a replacement. So I decided to bite the bullet, and started to
> look at relevant bits of the IDE code (much of which I still don't
> understand). I've been learning on the job, as you plainly see...
>

Talking about BigChimp, there is an open bug report from him:
  http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=25457
I think it can be resolved already. He may have confused Name and Caption.
The visible property is Caption and the WYSIWYG editor must modify it,
which it now does. Other properties should be left for Object Inspector.
The KISS principle applies here, too.

Anyway we have a good situation now as many people work on the menu
designer. At least its structure allows it to be modified. The old menu
designer was weird. Many people tried to improve it but finally gave up and
noted that it should be rewritten. Usually I can refactor code to make it
more modular and easier to maintain but with that code I didn't know how.
So yes, this had to be done. I believe after some initial pain we get a
good menu designer.

Juha
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 15.01.2016 23:30, Howard wrote:

Sorry, my apologies - I missed that you didn't try it.


Yes working fine for me (Windows 7 32bit and Linux 64 bit).
I'm relieved that such a simple change has had such a good effect, and 
that no further tinkering with TShadowMenu size and positioning code 
was required; and that my poorly implemented scrolling code can 
therefore be dumped entirely.


Yes, you must have wasted a lot of time on the extra scrolling code :(
+ Could you take a look also at this one?: 
http://mantis.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29399
Basically you should use a simple parented TEdit and not a modal dialog. 
Take a look at grids in-place editor.


To me it seems that you have taken hard and complicated routes at a lot 
of places in the new menu editor, which are very bug-prone, hard to 
maintain and hard to understand - instead of using easy and simple ways. 
As a result, you wasted your time and also mine and others that tried to 
understand what's going wrong in the unnecessary code and tried to fix it.


This is also the case of resource strings. Take a look e.g. at r51249 
and r51305. Why was the dialog so complicated with duplicate strings? 
Yes and No as answers are clear enough.

It stated:
"Deleting this item will delete all subitems too.
Delete this item and its subitems?"
You use the word delete three times, (sub)items 2+2 times. Why? (And I 
don't count the dialog title and former buttons.)
Why not only the second line?: "Delete this item and its subitems?" -> 
again it is clear enough. Furthermore, using the same words and phrases 
over and over again is stylistically wrong.


Honestly, the new menu editor is a translator's nightmare. Although I do 
like what the new designer does, I don't really like how it is written 
:( I tried to fix some code but I am somehow already tired to go through 
all the issues.


Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend you in any way. I 
just want to explain that you should use the KISS-principle whereever 
possible. It will not only save everybody's time but also lead to better 
code. (I know, I also have hard time to apply KISS.)


Ondrej

PS: Just for comparison:
BEFORE:


AFTER:


Even as a user, I need much more time to understand what's going on in 
the first dialog...
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Howard]

On 16/01/2016 21:08, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:

On 15.01.2016 23:30, Howard wrote:

Sorry, my apologies - I missed that you didn't try it.


Yes working fine for me (Windows 7 32bit and Linux 64 bit).
I'm relieved that such a simple change has had such a good effect, 
and that no further tinkering with TShadowMenu size and positioning 
code was required; and that my poorly implemented scrolling code can 
therefore be dumped entirely.


Yes, you must have wasted a lot of time on the extra scrolling code :(
+ Could you take a look also at this one?: 
http://mantis.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29399
Basically you should use a simple parented TEdit and not a modal 
dialog. Take a look at grids in-place editor.


I'll have a look later next week.


To me it seems that you have taken hard and complicated routes at a 
lot of places in the new menu editor, which are very bug-prone, hard 
to maintain and hard to understand - instead of using easy and simple 
ways. As a result, you wasted your time and also mine and others that 
tried to understand what's going wrong in the unnecessary code and 
tried to fix it.


This is also the case of resource strings. Take a look e.g. at r51249 
and r51305. Why was the dialog so complicated with duplicate strings? 
Yes and No as answers are clear enough.

It stated:
"Deleting this item will delete all subitems too.
Delete this item and its subitems?"
You use the word delete three times, (sub)items 2+2 times. Why? (And I 
don't count the dialog title and former buttons.)
Why not only the second line?: "Delete this item and its subitems?" -> 
again it is clear enough. Furthermore, using the same words and 
phrases over and over again is stylistically wrong.
In this particular instance of deleting a submenu (not just a single 
item) my motivation was not to make it overly complicated (though I 
appreciate it may seem so).
It is quite possible a user may have spent 10 minutes designing a 
submenu with half a dozen items, and then hits the delete key 
accidentally. With a simple Yes/No dialog (especially if the the default 
button is Yes) it is all to easy to hit the wrong button and lose the 
last few minutes' work; and there is no undo facility implemented.
I may have written that dialog clumsily, but I wanted to avoid the 
possibility of an 'automatic' response which was disastrous. I quite 
agree a straightforward Yes/No dialog is simpler and more elegant, but 
it may not give a hurried user sufficient 'pause' to avoid accidentally 
losing valuable work.


Honestly, the new menu editor is a translator's nightmare. Although I 
do like what the new designer does, I don't really like how it is 
written :( I tried to fix some code but I am somehow already tired to 
go through all the issues.


Please don't get me wrong - I don't want to offend you in any way. I 
just want to explain that you should use the KISS-principle whereever 
possible. It will not only save everybody's time but also lead to 
better code. (I know, I also have hard time to apply KISS.)


Ondrej

PS: Just for comparison:
BEFORE:


AFTER:


Even as a user, I need much more time to understand what's going on in 
the first dialog...
No offence taken. I appreciate you taking the time to give constructive 
feedback, as well as tracing through code you find poorly written in 
order to improve it.


You'll realise I'm on a learning curve. This is my first significant 
code contribution to an open source project. I actually never thought I 
had the skill to offer a new menueditor. It was a forum comment by the 
late BigChimp some years ago about the previous menueditor which first 
got me thinking about its shortcomings, why it was so difficult to 
improve/maintain, and how a replacement might be designed to be better 
in that respect; and several developers said a complete rewrite was the 
only way forward. Months became years and no one as far as I could see 
was working on a replacement. So I decided to bite the bullet, and 
started to look at relevant bits of the IDE code (much of which I still 
don't understand). I've been learning on the job, as you plainly see...


Howard
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 11.01.2016 21:36, Howard wrote:

On 11/01/2016 16:07, Anthony Walter wrote:

Very nice. I like the new design.

Side note: Who wrote that FScroller for the new menu editor? It acts 
very erratic for me on Gtk2. I don't know about on other widget sets. 
See issue 29369. Why not use TScrollBox or make TShadowMenu a 
TScrollingWinControl?


I wrote it. It is definitely the weakest part of the new designer. I 
hate to reinvent the wheel. However, I could not get a TScrollBox 
container to work correctly for TShadowMenu, perhaps because its size 
calculation and painting is rather non-standard. Whatever the reason I 
was unable to get a TScrollBox container to respond correctly to 
TShadowMenu size changes when there were more than a screenful of 
menuitems.
I'm honestly not sure if the best approach to sorting it out is to 
mend (or rewrite) FScroller, or to figure out a way for TScrollBox to 
parent TShadowMenu correctly. I did not try making TShadowMenu a 
TScrollingWinControl descendant. Perhaps that would be a better 
option. What would others advise?


What were your problems? In r51298 I removed all the Scroller code and 
simply used TScrollBox for TShadowMenu and it works without any problems 
- much better than your Scroller experiment. I tested win32 and Linux+Gtk2.


Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 15.01.2016 11:32, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
What were your problems? In r51298 I removed all the Scroller code and 
simply used TScrollBox for TShadowMenu and it works without any 
problems - much better than your Scroller experiment. I tested win32 
and Linux+Gtk2.


Forgot to say, please test :)

Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 15.01.2016 11:32, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
I did not try making TShadowMenu a TScrollingWinControl descendant. 
Perhaps that would be a better option. What would others advise?


What were your problems? In r51298 I removed all the Scroller code and 
simply used TScrollBox for TShadowMenu and it works without any 
problems - much better than your Scroller experiment. I tested win32 
and Linux+Gtk2.


Sorry, my apologies - I missed that you didn't try it.

Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Howard]

On 15/01/2016 11:04, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:

On 15.01.2016 11:32, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
I did not try making TShadowMenu a TScrollingWinControl descendant. 
Perhaps that would be a better option. What would others advise?


What were your problems? In r51298 I removed all the Scroller code 
and simply used TScrollBox for TShadowMenu and it works without any 
problems - much better than your Scroller experiment. I tested win32 
and Linux+Gtk2.


Sorry, my apologies - I missed that you didn't try it.


Yes working fine for me (Windows 7 32bit and Linux 64 bit).
I'm relieved that such a simple change has had such a good effect, and 
that no further tinkering with TShadowMenu size and positioning code was 
required; and that my poorly implemented scrolling code can therefore be 
dumped entirely.


Howard

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Howard]

On 11/01/2016 21:51, Anthony Walter wrote:
Howard, good job on the new menu designer. It's working very nicely 
right now. I'll take a look at modifying TShadowMenu to be a scrolling 
control without the need for a TScrollBox.


Thanks. Yes, Ondrej's introduction of TSiblingFake and TFirstFake are a 
neat improvement.


Howard


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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 12.01.2016 9:39, Howard wrote:
Yes, Ondrej's introduction of TSiblingFake and TFirstFake are a neat 
improvement.


Thanks! You did a nice job with the menu designer!

I would ask you to omit the with statement, though. IIRC there are even 
nested with statements in the code.


Withs can easily be sources of unnecessary bugs and errors.

Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Corpsman]

Hello i testet SVN Revision 51256 of the Menu designer and it looks
really cool.

But i miss the Feature

"If you doubleclick on the Menu Entry the IDE Jumps to the corresponding
OnCLick Event"

Which worked in the old version e.g. 50469

Could you please reactivate this ?

Corpsman

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Anthony Walter]

Howard, good job on the new menu designer. It's working very nicely right
now. I'll take a look at modifying TShadowMenu to be a scrolling control
without the need for a TScrollBox.
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 11.01.2016 10:09, Anthony Walter wrote:
No matter where I click it always shows the same pattern: ugly blue 
check board below, ugly aliased triangles to the right.


Can you please define "ugly" in an objective way?

I can say the same about your approach: "/No matter where I click it 
always shows the same pattern: ugly slanted gray lines below and the 
same to the right./"



The pattern inside the rectangle make no difference. It's purely a 
distraction which will probably have people wondering why it's even 
being drawn differently.


IMO, it is very clear, again:
- Arrows: new submenu item.
- Squares: new sibling menu item.

You have the same pattern for both submenu and siblings. If you don't 
like the current patterns, propose 2 different patterns (or images) for 
submenu/sibling as well.


Ondrej
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 11.01.2016 4:33, Dmitry Boyarintsev wrote:

The bottom one. It's more "calm". Doesn't look like a circus.​


I prefer the old one (top) :) The arrows/squares are very neat and show 
what you are going to do.


If you think it looks like a circus, what about using a less agressive 
colour for the arrows?


Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 11.01.2016 9:35, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
I prefer the old one (top) :) The arrows/squares are very neat and 
show what you are going to do.


Arrows: new submenu item.
Squares: new sibling menu item.

Very neat, IMO. Not to be removed, please :)

Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Anthony Walter]

In my opinion the top one is kind of terrible. Just look at this video:

http://cache.getlazarus.org/videos/menu-arrows.mp4

No matter where I click it always shows the same pattern: ugly blue check
board below, ugly aliased triangles to the right.

I can tell the item is going to be inserted below, because there is a
rectangle below.
I can tell the items are inserted to the right, because there is a
rectangle to the right.

The pattern inside the rectangle make no difference. It's purely a
distraction which will probably have people wondering why it's even being
drawn differently.
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[JuuS]

The top one.

I find there is room for beauty (ugly?) and personality in programming.
I find straight forward utilitarian to be ugly. I like things to be
interesting.

Any way to make the pattern settable? Win-Win!

On 01/11/2016 10:34 AM, Anthony Walter wrote:
> The point is, on a TPopupMenu if the pattern to the right is always
> alias arrows, and the pattern below is always check board, then it's
> entirely superfluous, nonessential, redundant, and unneeded.
> 
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-01-11 03:33, Dmitry Boyarintsev wrote:
> The bottom one. It's more "calm". Doesn't look like a circus.​

+1



Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Anthony Walter]

The point is, on a TPopupMenu if the pattern to the right is always alias
arrows, and the pattern below is always check board, then it's entirely
superfluous, nonessential, redundant, and unneeded.
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-01-11 09:21, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:
> IMO, it is very clear, again:
> - Arrows: new submenu item.
> - Squares: new sibling menu item.

As a programmer the bottom image is equally clear to me. I simply find
the bottom one more pleasing to the eye - less distracting.

If the arrows and squares must stay, then please switch to anti-aliased
drawing. Why is LCL still defaulting to aliased drawing [read as really
ugly and so early 90's] in this day an age.


Regards,
  - Graeme -


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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Howard]

On 11/01/2016 16:07, Anthony Walter wrote:

Very nice. I like the new design.

Side note: Who wrote that FScroller for the new menu editor? It acts 
very erratic for me on Gtk2. I don't know about on other widget sets. 
See issue 29369. Why not use TScrollBox or make TShadowMenu a 
TScrollingWinControl?


I wrote it. It is definitely the weakest part of the new designer. I 
hate to reinvent the wheel. However, I could not get a TScrollBox 
container to work correctly for TShadowMenu, perhaps because its size 
calculation and painting is rather non-standard. Whatever the reason I 
was unable to get a TScrollBox container to respond correctly to 
TShadowMenu size changes when there were more than a screenful of menuitems.
I'm honestly not sure if the best approach to sorting it out is to mend 
(or rewrite) FScroller, or to figure out a way for TScrollBox to parent 
TShadowMenu correctly. I did not try making TShadowMenu a 
TScrollingWinControl descendant. Perhaps that would be a better option. 
What would others advise?


Howard

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Anthony Walter]

On my system suddenly all is well with the new menu editor. Nice work :)

The docked form designer still has the issue where it's not being
realigned/repainted when a TMainMenu is placed on it. Issue 29370.
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Howard]

On 11/01/2016 12:35, Ondrej Pokorny wrote:

On 11.01.2016 13:31, Howard wrote:
The latest trunk accepts a patch which adopts Bart's suggestion of 
identifying the purpose of the dummy menuitem by displaying a 
self-descriptive text. The background is no longer patterned. Of 
course this can be further changed.


Where is the patch?

It is the second patch submitted on issue 29205

Howard

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 11.01.2016 14:20, Bart wrote:

In the image below, which style do you prefer. The top or bottom?

The bottom one.


Looks like I have been outvoted :) No problem.


On 11.01.2016 10:09, Anthony Walter wrote:

ugly aliased triangles

On 11.01.2016 11:25, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

If the arrows and squares must stay, then please switch to anti-aliased
drawing.


Just a technical remark: if I see correctly, Anthony doesn't use 
anti-aliasing either :)


Still, no problem, do whatever you want with the pattern. There are more 
important things in Lazarus. The user experience won't be very different 
with whatever pattern.


Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Bart]

On 1/11/16, Anthony Walter  wrote:

> In the image below, which style do you prefer. The top or bottom?

Suggestion: can you put the buttons in a grid like container?
With at least vertical lines between the different groups.

Bart

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Howard  wrote:
> It is the second patch submitted on issue 29205

Oops, I failed to notice it. Should it be applied?
I am happy if the issue is assigned to somebody else. Bart? Ondrej?
I have some other issues to look at.

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 11.01.2016 14:51, Juha Manninen wrote:

Oops, I failed to notice it. Should it be applied?


I'll apply it manually. The patch won't apply because I fixed some 
issues recently.


Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Juha Manninen]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Ondrej Pokorny  wrote:
> I'll apply it manually. The patch won't apply because I fixed some issues
> recently.

Assigned the issue to you. Thanks. :)

Juha

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 11.01.2016 13:31, Howard wrote:
The latest trunk accepts a patch which adopts Bart's suggestion of 
identifying the purpose of the dummy menuitem by displaying a 
self-descriptive text. The background is no longer patterned. Of 
course this can be further changed.


Where is the patch?

Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Bart]

On 1/11/16, Anthony Walter  wrote:

> In the image below, which style do you prefer. The top or bottom?

The bottom one.
Please add a text to it so one knows what it does.

Keep up the good work !!!

Bart

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Howard]

On 11/01/2016 09:34, Anthony Walter wrote:
The point is, on a TPopupMenu if the pattern to the right is always 
alias arrows, and the pattern below is always check board, then it's 
entirely superfluous, nonessential, redundant, and unneeded.


The latest trunk accepts a patch which adopts Bart's suggestion of 
identifying the purpose of the dummy menuitem by displaying a 
self-descriptive text. The background is no longer patterned. Of course 
this can be further changed.


Howard


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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Anthony Walter]

Very nice. I like the new design.

Side note: Who wrote that FScroller for the new menu editor? It acts very
erratic for me on Gtk2. I don't know about on other widget sets. See
issue 29369. Why not use TScrollBox or make TShadowMenu a
TScrollingWinControl?
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 11.01.2016 14:38, Howard wrote:

It is the second patch submitted on issue 29205


Applied. IMO the discussion about the pattern is now solved :)

Ondrej

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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Ondrej Pokorny]

On 11.01.2016 17:07, Anthony Walter wrote:
Side note: Who wrote that FScroller for the new menu editor? It acts 
very erratic for me on Gtk2. I don't know about on other widget sets. 
See issue 29369.


You can easily check by yourself in the SVN history. I don't know.



Why not use TScrollBox or make TShadowMenu a TScrollingWinControl?


Yes, it behaves strangely on win32 as well. You are welcome to create a 
patch.


Ondrej

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[Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Anthony Walter]

In the image below, which style do you prefer. The top or bottom?

http://cache.getlazarus.org/images/menu-patterns.gif
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Re: [Lazarus] New menu designer. which style do you prefer?

[Dmitry Boyarintsev]

The bottom one. It's more "calm". Doesn't look like a circus.​
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