Re: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors
> Ok, the ISP said 10mbps full duplex. I grabbed mii-diag and vortex-diag and > ran them. Forcing it there does not resolve the errors. Neither did setting it > to half-duplex. Setting to 100mbps just made things worse. :-( > > SO, I guess I'll have to live with the error messages ... Are you *SURE* you successfully forced full duplex on your end? There are *MANY* variations of 3com cards, which may be more or less supported by the driver you're using, and typically problems are more common at the physical layer (the high-level software interface to the controller doesn't typically change much between revisions, but the low-level physical MAC is frequently different, and if the driver doesn't know about the *EXACT* revision of the NIC you're using, there can be problems when trying to peg half/full duplex). Are you seeing any log messages about duplex? Are you seeing any collisions once you go to full duplex? If your local end is really full duplex, and the ISP is full duplex (as they claim), it should basically be *IMPOSSIBLE* to have a collision (the upstream link on my previously mentioned Cogent box currently lists 2,928,407,007 transmitted packets, with *ZERO* collisions). You might also check on the driver load options...once I figured out I needed full duplex with the diagnostic programs, I forced the issue when loading the module: # Force eth0 to full-duplex tulip options=0x205,0 The options for 3com cards are probably different, but you'll probably be able to do something similar. The correct values to use for the option field came from a combination of the debug programs, and reading through the driver source code. Charles Steinkuehler http://lrp.steinkuehler.net http://c0wz.steinkuehler.net (lrp.c0wz.com mirror) --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors
Charles Steinkuehler wrote (on Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 02:41:25PM -0500): | > Ok, I'm game. I can look at my nic card lights to know if I'm at 10 or | 100, but | > how do I figure out if I'm half duplex or full duplex? I'm running | Bering rc-2 | > with 3c59x.o. | | It depends...check the logs for driver messages, and look for a | low-level diagnostic utility for your NIC driver. If you using Dan | Becker's NIC drivers, you can find several utility programs here: | http://www.scyld.com/diag/ | | You probably want mii-diag and vortex-diag... | | NOTE: This will tell you if you're half or full duplex ON YOUR END, but | not necessarily what you're attached to (the only info you'll get about | the far end is from auto-negotiation messages, if the far end supports | it, and even that could be mis-leading or wrong, since a lot of early | hardware didn't do auto-negotiation properly). If your ISP's hardware | does not properly support auto-negotiation (highly likely, given your | description of the troubles you're having), you will have to find out | from them what you're hooked to, or make an educated guess by forcing | half and full duplex on your end, and seeing what sorts of errors crop | up. Ok, the ISP said 10mbps full duplex. I grabbed mii-diag and vortex-diag and ran them. Forcing it there does not resolve the errors. Neither did setting it to half-duplex. Setting to 100mbps just made things worse. :-( SO, I guess I'll have to live with the error messages ... -- _ Nachman Yaakov Ziskind, EA, LLM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Attorney and Counselor-at-Law http://yankel.com Economic Group Pension Services http://egps.com Actuaries and Employee Benefit Consultants --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
RE: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors
Thanks Charles, you have just explain what I meant to say in the first place. (as you always do ;) -Original Message- From: Charles Steinkuehler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 7:02 PM To: Nachman Yaakov Ziskind; 'Leaf' Subject: Re: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors > Look at the docs: > > "0x82 > Out of window collision. This typically occurs when *some other* > (emphasis added) Ethernet host is incorrectly set to full duplex > on a half duplex network. " > > "Both of these errors are the result of network errors that should > be corrected. They do not represent driver malfunction." > > So, I suspect that the problem is on the other end of the wire. [Therefore] > changing my end will accomplish nothing except breaking what I already have > in place. I suppose I could open a dialogue to my brain-dead ISP (but, I repeat > myself) and get nowhere, but why? > > I'd jusd like to get rid of the messages. I suppose I could try my hand at re- > writing the driver, but ... > > | When transmit errors occour on LAN, it means that there ARE hardware > | problems. > > But not on my machine, I suspect. > > | I can understand that since everything works quite well on your > | internal net and all connections to the internet, your wish is to > | have those messages removed. > > | But removing the messages 'per se' does not solve your problem. > > Why not? The messages are precisely the problem. Removing the messages would > solve the problem nicely. > > "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." > > | Please explain us more about your setup. > > Sure: internal LAN talks to one NIC on the router; the other NIC talks to the > ISP which routes for the internet. Don't be so quick to state that there's nothing broken. Just because traffic is flowing doesn't mean it flowing optimally. If you have an ethernet link with two ends mis-matched for duplex, everything will appear to work fine (you'll just get the annoying errors in your logs, along with TX and/or RX errors, and high numbers for collisions) until you start pushing the bandwidth limit of the link, at which point things can rapidly degenerate to where you're available bandwidth is getting eaten-up by re-transmissions (kind of an ethernet duplex equivalent of a broadcast storm). I had a similar problem when hooking up to a Cogent 100MBit ethernet drop. The switches used by Cogent didn't auto-negotiate properly, so my firewall NIC was stuck in half duplex, while the Cogent end was running full duplex. To fix the problem (and it *IS* a problem), I had to download/compile one of the utilities from the sycld site (I run Dan Becker's Tulip drivers on most of my Dachstein boxes), and use it to force the link to 100 MBit full duplex. Once I did this, everything was peachy...no more TX/RX errors or collisions, and no more weird log messages. You may be having a similar problem, in which case I urge you to actually fix it, rather than simply ignore or disable the error messages.Find out what you're hooked to on the ISP end...at least to the level of 10/100 MBit, full/half duplex. Compare this to the link status on your end, and force your end to match, if required. Auto-negotiation is wonderful when everything works, but if you're hooked to something that doesn't support auto-negotiation (like a lot of the fixed speed/duplex switches used by ISP's, where shaving every buck off equipment cost matters), it's frequently necessary to bypass auto-negotiation and "peg" a specific set of operating parameters, so don't just ignore those error warnings. Your network will thank you every time it's carrying a heavy traffic load. :-) Charles Steinkuehler http://lrp.steinkuehler.net http://c0wz.steinkuehler.net (lrp.c0wz.com mirror) --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors
> Ok, I'm game. I can look at my nic card lights to know if I'm at 10 or 100, but > how do I figure out if I'm half duplex or full duplex? I'm running Bering rc-2 > with 3c59x.o. It depends...check the logs for driver messages, and look for a low-level diagnostic utility for your NIC driver. If you using Dan Becker's NIC drivers, you can find several utility programs here: http://www.scyld.com/diag/ You probably want mii-diag and vortex-diag... NOTE: This will tell you if you're half or full duplex ON YOUR END, but not necessarily what you're attached to (the only info you'll get about the far end is from auto-negotiation messages, if the far end supports it, and even that could be mis-leading or wrong, since a lot of early hardware didn't do auto-negotiation properly). If your ISP's hardware does not properly support auto-negotiation (highly likely, given your description of the troubles you're having), you will have to find out from them what you're hooked to, or make an educated guess by forcing half and full duplex on your end, and seeing what sorts of errors crop up. > And a related question: how do I measure dropped packets, etc.? I don't have a > netstat on this system. :-( I think the 2.4 kernels still have /proc/net/dev... Charles Steinkuehler http://lrp.steinkuehler.net http://c0wz.steinkuehler.net (lrp.c0wz.com mirror) --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors
> Look at the docs: > > "0x82 > Out of window collision. This typically occurs when *some other* > (emphasis added) Ethernet host is incorrectly set to full duplex > on a half duplex network. " > > "Both of these errors are the result of network errors that should > be corrected. They do not represent driver malfunction." > > So, I suspect that the problem is on the other end of the wire. [Therefore] > changing my end will accomplish nothing except breaking what I already have > in place. I suppose I could open a dialogue to my brain-dead ISP (but, I repeat > myself) and get nowhere, but why? > > I'd jusd like to get rid of the messages. I suppose I could try my hand at re- > writing the driver, but ... > > | When transmit errors occour on LAN, it means that there ARE hardware > | problems. > > But not on my machine, I suspect. > > | I can understand that since everything works quite well on your > | internal net and all connections to the internet, your wish is to > | have those messages removed. > > | But removing the messages 'per se' does not solve your problem. > > Why not? The messages are precisely the problem. Removing the messages would > solve the problem nicely. > > "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." > > | Please explain us more about your setup. > > Sure: internal LAN talks to one NIC on the router; the other NIC talks to the > ISP which routes for the internet. Don't be so quick to state that there's nothing broken. Just because traffic is flowing doesn't mean it flowing optimally. If you have an ethernet link with two ends mis-matched for duplex, everything will appear to work fine (you'll just get the annoying errors in your logs, along with TX and/or RX errors, and high numbers for collisions) until you start pushing the bandwidth limit of the link, at which point things can rapidly degenerate to where you're available bandwidth is getting eaten-up by re-transmissions (kind of an ethernet duplex equivalent of a broadcast storm). I had a similar problem when hooking up to a Cogent 100MBit ethernet drop. The switches used by Cogent didn't auto-negotiate properly, so my firewall NIC was stuck in half duplex, while the Cogent end was running full duplex. To fix the problem (and it *IS* a problem), I had to download/compile one of the utilities from the sycld site (I run Dan Becker's Tulip drivers on most of my Dachstein boxes), and use it to force the link to 100 MBit full duplex. Once I did this, everything was peachy...no more TX/RX errors or collisions, and no more weird log messages. You may be having a similar problem, in which case I urge you to actually fix it, rather than simply ignore or disable the error messages.Find out what you're hooked to on the ISP end...at least to the level of 10/100 MBit, full/half duplex. Compare this to the link status on your end, and force your end to match, if required. Auto-negotiation is wonderful when everything works, but if you're hooked to something that doesn't support auto-negotiation (like a lot of the fixed speed/duplex switches used by ISP's, where shaving every buck off equipment cost matters), it's frequently necessary to bypass auto-negotiation and "peg" a specific set of operating parameters, so don't just ignore those error warnings. Your network will thank you every time it's carrying a heavy traffic load. :-) Charles Steinkuehler http://lrp.steinkuehler.net http://c0wz.steinkuehler.net (lrp.c0wz.com mirror) --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors
Luis.F.Correia wrote (on Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 05:19:08PM +0100): | My friend, if you are receiving odd kernel errors, it is either a | faulty NIC or a puzzled driver. Or an unhappy router on the other end. Or other faulty hosts on the (outside) subnet - both things I cannot control. | I know that 'cause I once had the same problem. | | You know, most of us use rather old NIC's gathered from old PC's. | At least I do. If you got that card from one of these old doorstop | computers, who can assure you that it has no problems? I bought two brand new 3com's for this project. | Or it could be a faulty cable, or a problem on your HUB/Switch port. I have one cable, leading to the ISP. Swapping the cable helps not. Look at the docs: "0x82 Out of window collision. This typically occurs when *some other* (emphasis added) Ethernet host is incorrectly set to full duplex on a half duplex network. " "Both of these errors are the result of network errors that should be corrected. They do not represent driver malfunction." So, I suspect that the problem is on the other end of the wire. [Therefore] changing my end will accomplish nothing except breaking what I already have in place. I suppose I could open a dialogue to my brain-dead ISP (but, I repeat myself) and get nowhere, but why? I'd jusd like to get rid of the messages. I suppose I could try my hand at re- writing the driver, but ... | When transmit errors occour on LAN, it means that there ARE hardware | problems. But not on my machine, I suspect. | I can understand that since everything works quite well on your | internal net and all connections to the internet, your wish is to | have those messages removed. | But removing the messages 'per se' does not solve your problem. Why not? The messages are precisely the problem. Removing the messages would solve the problem nicely. "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." | Please explain us more about your setup. Sure: internal LAN talks to one NIC on the router; the other NIC talks to the ISP which routes for the internet. | Luis.F.Correia wrote (on Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 04:31:12PM +0100): | | Well... you could also try using another NIC driver for your board. | | | | I guess that the 'vortex' series loosely identifies a 3Com card. | | | | There are a large number of cards that work with that driver. I also | | recall that Donald Becker wrote drivers for those cards. | | | | Try other drivers and if all still goes wrong, you could also try | | another NIC... | | But it's not the NIC or the drivers; they all work splendidly. | | I just want to suppress those error messages ... | | | [Bering rc2] | | | | ... getting lots of errors in both syslog and kern.log: | | | | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: eth0: Transmit error, Tx status | | register 82. Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Probably a duplex mismatch. | See | | Documentation/networking/vortex.txt | | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Flags; bus-master 1, dirty 3351435(11) | | current 3351435(11) | | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Transmit list vs. c3bf14c0. | | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: 0: @c3bf1200 length 8036 status | | 00010036 | | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: 1: @c3bf1240 length 8036 status | | 00010036 | | | | etc., etc. filling up the logs. | | | | I've read the vortex page, and I think that those packets are | | spurious; since the firewall works quite well, thank you, changing the | | duplex mode of my network card seems not to be in order. | | | | But the messages are quite a bother, and they exhaust the log | | filesystem. | | | | Is there anyway to supress these error messages, short of turning off | | logging altogether? -- _ Nachman Yaakov Ziskind, EA, LLM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Attorney and Counselor-at-Law http://yankel.com Economic Group Pension Services http://egps.com Actuaries and Employee Benefit Consultants --- This sf.net email is sponsored by: Dice - The leading online job board for high-tech professionals. Search and apply for tech jobs today! http://seeker.dice.com/seeker.epl?rel_code=31 leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
RE: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors
My friend, if you are receiving odd kernel errors, it is either a faulty NIC or a puzzled driver. I know that 'cause I once had the same problem. You know, most of us use rather old NIC's gathered from old PC's. At least I do. If you got that card from one of these old doorstop computers, who can assure you that it has no problems? Or it could be a faulty cable, or a problem on your HUB/Switch port. When transmit errors occour on LAN, it means that there ARE hardware problems. I can understand that since everything works quite well on your internal net and all connections to the internet, your wish is to have those messages removed. But removing the messages 'per se' does not solve your problem. Please explain us more about your setup. -Original Message- From: Nachman Yaakov Ziskind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 5:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors Luis.F.Correia wrote (on Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 04:31:12PM +0100): | Well... you could also try using another NIC driver for your board. | | I guess that the 'vortex' series loosely identifies a 3Com card. | | There are a large number of cards that work with that driver. I also | recall that Donald Becker wrote drivers for those cards. | | Try other drivers and if all still goes wrong, you could also try | another NIC... But it's not the NIC or the drivers; they all work splendidly. I just want to suppress those error messages ... | [Bering rc2] | | ... getting lots of errors in both syslog and kern.log: | | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: eth0: Transmit error, Tx status | register 82. Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Probably a duplex mismatch. See | Documentation/networking/vortex.txt | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Flags; bus-master 1, dirty 3351435(11) | current 3351435(11) | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Transmit list vs. c3bf14c0. | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: 0: @c3bf1200 length 8036 status | 00010036 | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: 1: @c3bf1240 length 8036 status | 00010036 | | etc., etc. filling up the logs. | | I've read the vortex page, and I think that those packets are | spurious; since the firewall works quite well, thank you, changing the | duplex mode of my network card seems not to be in order. | | But the messages are quite a bother, and they exhaust the log | filesystem. | | Is there anyway to supress these error messages, short of turning off | logging altogether? | | NYZ -- _ Nachman Yaakov Ziskind, EA, LLM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Attorney and Counselor-at-Law http://yankel.com Economic Group Pension Services http://egps.com Actuaries and Employee Benefit Consultants --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
Re: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors
Luis.F.Correia wrote (on Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 04:31:12PM +0100): | Well... you could also try using another NIC driver for your board. | | I guess that the 'vortex' series loosely identifies a 3Com card. | | There are a large number of cards that work with that driver. I also | recall that Donald Becker wrote drivers for those cards. | | Try other drivers and if all still goes wrong, you could also try | another NIC... But it's not the NIC or the drivers; they all work splendidly. I just want to suppress those error messages ... | [Bering rc2] | | ... getting lots of errors in both syslog and kern.log: | | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: eth0: Transmit error, Tx status register 82. | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Probably a duplex mismatch. See | Documentation/networking/vortex.txt | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Flags; bus-master 1, dirty 3351435(11) | current 3351435(11) | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Transmit list vs. c3bf14c0. | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: 0: @c3bf1200 length 8036 status | 00010036 | Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: 1: @c3bf1240 length 8036 status | 00010036 | | etc., etc. filling up the logs. | | I've read the vortex page, and I think that those packets are spurious; | since the firewall works quite well, thank you, changing the duplex mode of | my network card seems not to be in order. | | But the messages are quite a bother, and they exhaust the log filesystem. | | Is there anyway to supress these error messages, short of turning off | logging altogether? | | NYZ -- _ Nachman Yaakov Ziskind, EA, LLM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Attorney and Counselor-at-Law http://yankel.com Economic Group Pension Services http://egps.com Actuaries and Employee Benefit Consultants --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
RE: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors
Well... you could also try using another NIC driver for your board. I guess that the 'vortex' series loosely identifies a 3Com card. There are a large number of cards that work with that driver. I also recall that Donald Becker wrote drivers for those cards. Try other drivers and if all still goes wrong, you could also try another NIC... -Original Message- From: Nachman Yaakov Ziskind [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 4:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [leaf-user] Annoying duplex errors [Bering rc2] ... getting lots of errors in both syslog and kern.log: Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: eth0: Transmit error, Tx status register 82. Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Probably a duplex mismatch. See Documentation/networking/vortex.txt Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Flags; bus-master 1, dirty 3351435(11) current 3351435(11) Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: Transmit list vs. c3bf14c0. Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: 0: @c3bf1200 length 8036 status 00010036 Aug 12 11:21:21 yoreach kernel: 1: @c3bf1240 length 8036 status 00010036 etc., etc. filling up the logs. I've read the vortex page, and I think that those packets are spurious; since the firewall works quite well, thank you, changing the duplex mode of my network card seems not to be in order. But the messages are quite a bother, and they exhaust the log filesystem. Is there anyway to supress these error messages, short of turning off logging altogether? NYZ -- _ Nachman Yaakov Ziskind, EA, LLM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Attorney and Counselor-at-Law http://yankel.com Economic Group Pension Services http://egps.com Actuaries and Employee Benefit Consultants --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html --- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
