[LEAPSECS] Cheating means more planning, not less

2008-12-27 Thread Rob Seaman
I wrote: Whatever the preferences of the ITU, they will discover that it is simply unacceptable to allow local dates to vary secularly from civil timekeeping dates. Tony Finch replies: Civil time *is* a form of local time. The question isn't about haggling over terminology. We've had

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-27 Thread Zefram
Rob Seaman wrote: Again, the issue is mean solar time, not local solar time. This sentence doesn't make sense to me. You seem to have a different definition of either mean or local from me. To be clear: the (periodic) difference between apparent and mean solar time does not affect my argument,

[LEAPSECS] Fwd: Re: Leap second is back

2008-12-27 Thread Richard B. Langley
List members might be interested in the message below posted to the Sundial List--yes, some of us are interested in these devices that provide true time ;-). Not that this posting will likely sway current diverse and seemingly entrenched opinions of some members (one way or the other). By the

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-27 Thread Rob Seaman
I wrote: Historians looking backward want to relate events worldwide and arrange them into coherent timelines. Zefram replied: Yes, they'll want the Olson database. Precisely. For a scheme such as this to have any chance of working, a requirement is that it be tightly coupled to a

Re: [LEAPSECS] Cheating means more planning, not less

2008-12-27 Thread Tony Finch
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008, Rob Seaman wrote: Rather, a clock can be deposited at any meridian on any planet, set to any time, running at any rate. The question is whether a particular choice of parameters is useful and sustainable. Really what it boils down to is a question of how frequently and

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-27 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: 20081227134333.gm2...@fysh.org Zefram zef...@fysh.org writes: : Historians looking backward : want to relate events worldwide and arrange them into coherent : timelines. : : Yes, they'll want the Olson database. How is the

Re: [LEAPSECS] Cheating means more planning, not less

2008-12-27 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: 5de48b7a-0d30-4580-b110-7687a75a2...@noao.edu Rob Seaman sea...@noao.edu writes: : Identifying the length of the civil day with the length of the mean : solar day is the key to providing that coherence. (True now on Mars : as well as Earth.) The mean solar day is just

Re: [LEAPSECS] Cheating means more planning, not less

2008-12-27 Thread Steve Allen
On Sat 2008-12-27T19:22:00 -0700, M. Warner Losh hath writ: Correct. However, the die was cast on this in 1958 when the second was defined in terms of atomic behavior. At that point, the game was up, since the basic unit of time was decoupled from the day. We transitioned from having rubber

Re: [LEAPSECS] civil-solar correlation with TI

2008-12-27 Thread Rob Seaman
M. Warner Losh wrote: How is the Olson database fundamentally different than the historical data that a future historian would have based on the measurements of the delta between what we call today TAI and UT1 times? It is just more data for them to swizzle into their calculations?