Re: [LEAPSECS] it's WP7A week in Geneva

2009-09-10 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message ab352dd8-ffdb-4ccf-a582-c7db12163...@noao.edu, Rob Seaman writes: I have (tediously, bombastically, endlessly) asserted that civil time IS solar time. This is a statement of requirements. Requirements describe the problem space. And you have repeatedly tried to ignore the

Re: [LEAPSECS] it's WP7A week in Geneva

2009-09-10 Thread Rob Seaman
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: And you have repeatedly tried to ignore the question of how large the civil-solar tolerance is, can or should be. I don't think a fair and impartial witness would say given my plethora of messages over the years that I've ever successfully ignored anything :-)

Re: [LEAPSECS] it's WP7A week in Geneva

2009-09-10 Thread Rob Seaman
Tony Finch wrote: India is a prominent example of a half hour timezone offset. (Sorry for straying off topic.) Indeed. I reset the second clock on my phone to the timezone of New Delhi when my daughter had a semester in Dharamsala. It's been a couple of years and I've never set it

Re: [LEAPSECS] it's WP7A week in Geneva

2009-09-10 Thread Rob Seaman
Richard B. Langley wrote: Quoting Rob Seaman sea...@noao.edu: It's impressive that civil GPS discussions reach back through so many meetings. Any idea when the 1st CGSIC meeting was held? Probably 1986: Cool. Thanks! Proceedings of the 1991 National Technical Meeting of the Institute

Re: [LEAPSECS] it's WP7A week in Geneva

2009-09-10 Thread Tony Finch
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009, Rob Seaman wrote: It is precisely the fact of a international civil timescale that makes the timezone system work. Yes. In return, the many timezones and numerous special cases represent constraints on the common underlying standard to better track mean solar time.

Re: [LEAPSECS] it's WP7A week in Geneva

2009-09-10 Thread Rob Seaman
M. Warner Losh wrote: There are a number of solutions to the current leap-seconds problems that don't completely decouple UTC from the sun. As well as non-solutions like leap-hours that don't actually eliminate leap-seconds, but rather accumulate them for later release in one colossally

Re: [LEAPSECS] it's WP7A week in Geneva

2009-09-10 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: de4e112b-d8da-4e92-9458-ea89c8dbc...@noao.edu Rob Seaman sea...@noao.edu writes: : M. Warner Losh wrote: : : There are a number of solutions to the current leap-seconds problems : that don't completely decouple UTC from the sun. : : As well as non-solutions like

Re: [LEAPSECS] it's WP7A week in Geneva

2009-09-10 Thread Steve Allen
On Wed 2009-09-09T23:49:42 +, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: In message e44632d3-66d3-47d3-8b7a-7d8e7245d...@noao.edu, Rob Seaman writes: Why leap seconds are difficult to get right for an equipment vendor Sam Stein, Symmetricom, Inc. I hope the presentations will be posted online.