On Sat, 29 Jan 2011, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
Thus, no matter what, the Sun must peak at midday and it be night at
midnight, with adjustments to ensure that based on time-zones. Since
stopping leap seconds breaks that basic principle, it became
unacceptable.
Actually the sun doesn't peak at
On 31 January 2011 12:48, Tony Finch d...@dotat.at wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2011, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
Thus, no matter what, the Sun must peak at midday and it be night at
midnight, with adjustments to ensure that based on time-zones. Since
stopping leap seconds breaks that basic principle,
On 1/29/2011 8:55 AM, Daniel R. Tobias allegedly wrote:
...
Is there actually anybody on any side of the great time scale debates
who advocates sending government agents to people's homes to ensure
that all their clocks are set to the correct standard, possibly
arresting my mom because she
On 01/29/2011 10:20, Michael Sokolov wrote:
You and/or PHK (I don't remember exactly which, I think PHK, but your
positions are obviously similar) have said repeatedly on this list that
using any time scale other than those tied to UTC through various
legal time statutes is illegal in a criminal
On 01/29/2011 09:56, Daniel R. Tobias wrote:
On 28 Jan 2011 at 23:59, Warner Losh wrote:
Just for the record. I have no minions, armed or otherwise.
Do you have a minyan (defined as ten Jewish males, needed to begin
prayer in Orthodox Jewish tradition)?
I don't have that either...
Warner
On 30 Jan 2011 at 11:57, Warner Losh wrote:
On 01/29/2011 09:56, Daniel R. Tobias wrote:
On 28 Jan 2011 at 23:59, Warner Losh wrote:
Just for the record. I have no minions, armed or otherwise.
Do you have a minyan (defined as ten Jewish males, needed to begin
prayer in Orthodox Jewish
If this happens, I therefore think that there may end up being two
versions of UTC in common use, which would be a far worse situation
than today.
Stephen
Your java class going to provide the true TAI, the true UTC,
and the a user-friendly (smoothed, non leap second) version
of UTC, right? If
On 1/29/2011 3:27 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote, in part:
It is my opinion, coming from an open source background, that if the
body currently defining leap seconds stops doing so with less than
100% consensus, then the leap second defining process would be forked.
Some other person/body/open
On 28 Jan 2011 at 23:59, Warner Losh wrote:
Just for the record. I have no minions, armed or otherwise.
Do you have a minyan (defined as ten Jewish males, needed to begin
prayer in Orthodox Jewish tradition)?
--
== Dan ==
Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
Dan's Web Tips:
On 29 Jan 2011 at 2:02, Michael Sokolov wrote:
I choose to live my life on a rubber timescale similar to UTC-SLS,
and I am prepared to use deadly firepower to defend my right to
live my life on this timescale. If PHK or Warner Losh or their
armed minions (aka local sheriffs enforcing laws
Warner Losh i...@bsdimp.com wrote:
Just for the record. I have no minions, armed or otherwise.
Yes you do: they are called sheriffs/cops/etc, and are unfortunately
present in almost every country on Earth with the possible exception of
small countries like the Principality of Sealand which to
On 2011-01-28 18:34, Gerard Ashton asked:
Windows and Unix have general reputations of not doing it right; does
anyone know of a hardware/operating system combination that handles leap
seconds correctly? If so, does it have a defined approach to providing a
quasi-UTC that hides leap
On 28 January 2011 05:33, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote:
There are many forms of SLS; from those that spread the
leap across one second, or two seconds, or 30 seconds or
a minute, or an hour, or a day. Spread it across a year (or
however long it's been since the last leap second) and
On 01/28/2011 06:11, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
On 28 January 2011 05:33, Tom Van Baakt...@leapsecond.com wrote:
There are many forms of SLS; from those that spread the
leap across one second, or two seconds, or 30 seconds or
a minute, or an hour, or a day. Spread it across a year (or
however
On Fri 2011-01-28T08:55:34 -0700, Warner Losh hath writ:
The larger point is that nobody implements this in the real world.
UTC-SLS is largely just a paper standard that the vast majority of
people completely ignore. It seems unwise to code such a tenuous thing
into the Java standard
On 28 January 2011 16:17, Steve Allen s...@ucolick.org wrote:
On Fri 2011-01-28T08:55:34 -0700, Warner Losh hath writ:
The larger point is that nobody implements this in the real world.
UTC-SLS is largely just a paper standard that the vast majority of
people completely ignore. It seems
@Warner, UTC-SLS is simply a clearly written way to reconcile UTC to
practical computing/business. I wish it was a recognised standard, but
it isn't. That places me in the position of making it a de facto
standard unless I receive a suitable alternative proposal. 8 million+
Java developers are
On 28 January 2011 17:15, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote:
@Warner, UTC-SLS is simply a clearly written way to reconcile UTC to
practical computing/business. I wish it was a recognised standard, but
it isn't. That places me in the position of making it a de facto
standard unless I
On Fri 2011-01-28T18:03:07 +, Stephen Colebourne hath writ:
JSR-310 addresses the definition of 1970-01-01Z (by defining the
TAI-UTC gap as fixed at 10 seconds prior to 1972.
This is pointless silliness. This is defining a time scale which did
not exist and presuming that it can be used
When it comes to finding a standard to smooth UTC in order to hide leap
seconds for purposes of the Java Instant class, I would be tempted to
find a computer architecture that handles leap seconds properly, and
propose a standard that can be implemented as easily as possible on that
On Fri 2011-01-28T10:34:14 -0800, Steve Allen hath writ:
On Fri 2011-01-28T18:03:07 +, Stephen Colebourne hath writ:
JSR-310 addresses the definition of 1970-01-01Z (by defining the
TAI-UTC gap as fixed at 10 seconds prior to 1972.
All proleptic time scales are dangerous, for in the
On 28 January 2011 18:34, Steve Allen s...@ucolick.org wrote:
On Fri 2011-01-28T18:03:07 +, Stephen Colebourne hath writ:
JSR-310 addresses the definition of 1970-01-01Z (by defining the
TAI-UTC gap as fixed at 10 seconds prior to 1972.
This is pointless silliness. This is defining a
I would not fully agree with Tom Van Baak. True, most of the users on
the planet
have no need for sub-second accuracy, except for systems that they have
no internal
access to (e.g. GPS). But usually they have a requirement to not be
presented with
representations that most software cannot
On Fri 2011-01-28T12:42:08 -0800, Tom Van Baak hath writ:
The question is what specification of accuracy is there for any
of these APIs? I understand of course that when you use units
like nanoseconds you don't mean accuracy. But when users or
implementers see words like TAI and UTC there is
On 01/28/2011 11:34, Gerard Ashton wrote:
Windows and Unix have general reputations of not doing it right; does
anyone know of a hardware/operating system combination that handles
leap seconds correctly? If so, does it have a defined approach to
providing a quasi-UTC that hides leap seconds
@Warner, UTC-SLS is simply a clearly written way to reconcile UTC to
practical computing/business. I wish it was a recognised standard, but
it isn't. That places me in the position of making it a de facto
standard unless I receive a suitable alternative proposal. 8 million+
Java developers
Hi Stephen,
Aside from others' concerns, I am a little worried about the nonfunctional
nature of your API. The user might appreciate documentation about which
expressions may vary across calls to registerSystemLeapSecond(), and which
member functions are well-defined functions of the object
On 28 January 2011 20:42, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote:
As I said before, having looked at the subject, I now strongly believe
that any alteration to the current scheme of occasional leap-seconds
would be a serious mistake with large consequences.
Can you explain the above comment a
On 28 January 2011 20:42, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote:
Second question -- I assume your design of the new java class
needs to address two different audiences; one are the 8 million
developers but the other are the several dozen (?) implementers
of the class on their own particular
Stephen Colebourne scolebou...@joda.org wrote:
If TAI claims a trademark or similar, then I will have to rename or
clarify. BIPM has not been consulted.
The term I use is TAPF: Temps Atomique Pedant-Free. TAPF is officially
defined by its defining authority (me) to be identical with TAI in
IOW: the only way you will take my non-SI rubber seconds from me is from
my cold dead hands.
One hopes this is hyperbole (alternative explanations are troubling). It is
unlikely to aid your professed position.
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On 01/28/2011 19:02, Michael Sokolov wrote:
If PHK
or Warner Losh or their armed minions
Just for the record. I have no minions, armed or otherwise.
Warner
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I note that there has been some previous discussion about JSR-310 on
this list. I thought I'd provide an update on the status wrt leap
seconds (as spec lead) given Java is perhaps the most important
enterprise programming language.
The relevant classes for leap seconds are in this package:
Yes, we've been here before. Here are some comments to
consider.
There are many forms of SLS; from those that spread the
leap across one second, or two seconds, or 30 seconds or
a minute, or an hour, or a day. Spread it across a year (or
however long it's been since the last leap second) and you
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