In message 1292118117.24926.52.ca...@localhost, Paul Sheer writes:
I choose the solution that makes my flight the cheepest.
It is not a matter of flight being cheap or expensive.
If you only synchronize computer on the order of minutes the modern
airport ceases to function as such.
During
In message 1292119375.24926.67.ca...@localhost, Paul Sheer writes:
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 01:20 +, Ian Batten wrote:
indeed with these protocols, can I guess that,
1. syncronization is only required to within a couple of seconds
2. syncronization is only required between client and server
On Dec 12, 2010, at 2:27 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
5. Canibalism is a problem the Navy has mostly under control.
It is well known that it is the RAF who now suffer the largest casualties in
this area.
I've eaten some airplane meals that might lead one to consider the
possibility...
And is this 1000km radius precisely syncronized to all other 1000km
radii around all airports in the world?
No it need not be. I'm guessing that some may not even use NTP at all -
or even be connected to the Internet to be able to use NTP.
You are trying to paint an illusion that all clocks in
In message 1292178523.24926.79.ca...@localhost, Paul Sheer writes:
And is this 1000km radius precisely syncronized to all other 1000km
radii around all airports in the world?
No, I said:
Radar stitching requires 3msec synchronization and
timestamping, throughout the entire area
On 12/12/2010 11:28, Paul Sheer wrote:
And is this 1000km radius precisely syncronized to all other 1000km
radii around all airports in the world?
No it need not be. I'm guessing that some may not even use NTP at all
- or even be connected to the Internet to be able to use NTP.
All major
No, I'm trying to point out that you are an ignoranmus in this context
with your within some minutes is plenty blanket statements.
If we misinterpret statements as axoims we will always be in a circle of
discussing what the statement excluded.
I am speaking for the 100's of millions of
In message 1292189518.25675.85.ca...@localhost, Paul Sheer writes:
I have a strong suspician that if someone put a gun to your head and
said Poul-Henning, we are not getting rid of leap seconds, but we are
telling YOU to make sure those computers don't crash next December that
you would find that
A gentle reminder from your host -- please keep this discussion
list somewhat technical. Every now and then it gets out of hand.
/tvb
http://www.LeapSecond.com
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On Dec 12, 2010, at 2:53 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
The question is: Are the minor inconvenience astronomers will
suffer, by having to subscribe to a DUT distribution service, a
bigger issue than the money and lives leap seconds will cost.
I'd say a more basic question is that if the
On 12/12/2010 18:11, Rob Seaman wrote:
On Dec 12, 2010, at 2:53 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
If Geophysicist announced leap seconds with at least 10 years
firm notice, 90% of the problems they cause would be eliminated
by the normal software update cycle.
As you say, there are more than one
On Dec 11, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Ian Batten wrote:
Well, except for Active Directory, which sets an upper bound of five
minutes on the maximum error. In practice, an AD deployment in
which clocks were allowed to drift apart by minutes would behave
very badly, so the typical target is less
Then you must also pity 99.999% of the software users on the planet all of
which are not affected by missing NTP configurations.
Really? OSX ships with a functional NTP configuration, enabled by default, as
do most Apple odds and ends (Airports, particularly). In order to have an OSX
On Sat 2010-12-11T08:18:54 +, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ:
I have a script that dumps the timestamps of each of a number of
servers where I work; this is a recent result:
Those clocks span about 10 seconds.
Why are you not running NTP properly ?
That question is not fair without further
I'm surprised by your claim that Telcos don't do NTP, [...]
I'm sure many do.
My point is that, if one's starting premise is that most systems in the
world *require* second-accurate syncronization, this is simply untrue.
In fact most work perfectly well even when they drift by minutes,
and a
This is orders of magnitude more error than any leap second.
One problem with the kinda works attitude is that is a barrier to
entry for people whose systems need to work correctly to a much higher
I agree: the kinda works attitude is indeed such a barrier.
However the kinda works
In message 1292102703.24926.29.ca...@localhost, Paul Sheer writes:
Apply this principle as follows: ACCEPT that there are servers
and desktops all over the world are MISCONFIGURED and do NOT
have second-accurate syncronization, and are NEVER going to
have second-accurate syncronization.
Ohh we
On Dec 11, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
So the magnitude of this kinda works degrades as the time synchronization
between systems gets worse.
Kinda works - you could be describing UTC redefined without leap seconds :-)
Rob
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LEAPSECS
This is because by-and-large software is written for the lowest
common denominator.
I am reminded of Spinal Tap's We're cancelled in Boston, but don't worry, it's
not a big college town. Examples of protocols that get distinctly tetchy in
the face of poor clock synch are, as has already
On 12/11/2010 17:18, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message1292109115.24926.42.ca...@localhost, Paul Sheer writes:
On Sat, 2010-12-11 at 22:35 +, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
But that does not allow us to ignore the servers which are
synchronized and which need to be synchronized to work.
I
Which bit of need don't you understand ?
Are you happy with the ATC servers used to land your plane being
within some minutes of each other ?
There are two choices:
A. the software was written to be safe assuming precise time
syncronization AND the time was reliably and precisely
On Dec 11, 2010, at 6:36 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
ATC systems being unsynchronized means that planes crash; clearly a situation
we want to avoid.
Presumably they do have layers on layers of error handling built in, as well as
contingent procedures - perhaps even traditional sextant navigation
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 01:20 +, Ian Batten wrote:
This is because by-and-large software is written for the lowest
common denominator.
NFS (the computing glue of the nineties) and Kerberos/AD
(the computing glue of the noughties). [...]
please understand that I am only trying to
Ken Seidelmann, John Seago, and I addressed this in our papers and in
the recent editorial in Space News.
The Y2K effort was necessary. Everyone knew that we could not just
watch what might happen and catch up afterwards. In the case of leap
seconds, no one knows what the real consequences
In message 3b33e89c51d2de44be2f0c757c656c8809cda...@mail02.stk.com, Finklema
n, Dave writes:
We can just let things be as they have been for nearly 40 years.
Sure, no argument from here: Please shut down your Internet connection
and any cell-phones you might have, and don't use them ever again
To: Leap Second Discussion Listleapsecs@leapsecond.com
Reply-To: Leap Second Discussion List leapsecs@leapsecond.com
Subject: Re: [LEAPSECS] Leap Sec vs Y2K
In message 3b33e89c51d2de44be2f0c757c656c8809cda...@mail02.stk.com, Finklema
n, Dave writes:
We can just let things be as they have been
In message 211674-1292007095-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-4042
478...@bda950.bisx.prod.on.blackberry, p...@2038bug.com writes:
very much need to know and agree what time it is.
Yes but mostly only to an accuracy of minutes.
Pray tell what authority you have for this
On Dec 10, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
In message 3b33e89c51d2de44be2f0c757c656c8809cda...@mail02.stk.com,
Finklema
n, Dave writes:
We can just let things be as they have been for nearly 40 years.
Sure, no argument from here: Please shut down your Internet connection
On 11 Dec 2010 at 0:40, Paul Sheer wrote:
At the ISP I consult for there are about 20 servers serving 60,000
customers. Their clocks routinely go out of sync and it doesn't affect
service.
I have a script that dumps the timestamps of each of a number of
servers where I work; this is a recent
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