Re: UT1 confidence

2007-01-17 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
gives an uncertainty a year ahead of 21 ms. The question is what domain of validity the above formula has ? In the builletin they only apply it up to 40d. For an argument of 10 years the result is 0.12 seconds. For an argument of 100 years the result is 0.66 seconds. -- Poul-Henning Kamp

Re: The Martian Chronicles

2007-01-15 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
/brief/clock) Let me just note that not all of us in the NTP environment belive that algorithm is optimal or even well understood. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
a strong signature on the leap-second table, because if anyone can inject a leap-second table on the internet, there is no end to how much fun they could have. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Malone writes: FWIW, I believe most hospitals are more than capable of looking after equipment with complex maintenance schedules. It is not just a questoin of ability, to a very high degree cost is much more important. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-06 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
. (There are other examples, but not as well known). -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-06 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
B. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-06 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes: On Sat 2007-01-06T19:36:19 +, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: There are two problems: 1. We get too short notice about leap-seconds. 2. POSIX and other standards cannot invent their UTC timescales. This is not fair

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-06 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
it can get NTP or similar service ? I know people who will disagree with you: Air traffic control Train control Hospitals and the list goes on. 6 months is simply not an acceptable warning to get, end of story. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20

Re: A lurker surfaces

2007-01-03 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
was comfortable with. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-03 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
required to generate a leapseconds email exploder. As far as I know the atmosphere is far to cold for that :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-02 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
the emergency leap second can be implemented; consequently, the current guarantee is only statistical, not absolute. But is it physically relevant ? Has anybody calculated how much energy is required to change the Earths rotation fast enough to make this rule relevant ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-02 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
important DUT1 really is... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: A lurker surfaces

2007-01-02 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
for the latter would probably have to use radio. This proposal is so patently badly researched that you should not talk more about it until you have _really_ thought about the implications, technical, scientifically and legally. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: A lurker surfaces

2007-01-01 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes: On Sun 2006-12-31T07:59:35 +, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: Rob, If you feel uncomfortable with calling leapseconds discontinuities, then we can use the term arrhythmia instead. The point of my allegory about unplanned pregnancies is that all

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-01 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes: McCarthy pretty much answered this question in 2001 as I reiterate here http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/McCarthy.html What exactly is the Y axis on this graph ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-01 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
to be, and consequently, they could just send a letter to ITU and say we'll do it this way from MMDD, if you disagree, then figure something else out. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe

Re: Introduction of long term scheduling

2007-01-01 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Magnus Danielson wr ites: From: Poul-Henning Kamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [LEAPSECS] Introduction of long term scheduling Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 19:29:19 + Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poul-Henning, In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes

Re: Mechanism to provide tai-utc.dat locally

2006-12-28 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
: It is not the step size that is the problem, it is the 6 month warning. I don't care if you want to implement leap-milliseconds, as long as you tell me 10 years in advance when they happen. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD

Re: Mechanism to provide tai-utc.dat locally

2006-12-27 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
and stupid. The fractional part should be a binary field, so that the width can be adjusted to whatever precision and wordsize is relevant. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never

Re: Equitable estoppel

2006-12-17 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
-seconds or leap-microseconds, it's only a matter of precision. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: what time is it, legally?

2006-12-15 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
our obsession with knowing what *place* we're at; its need for precise time is a mere technical detail of its implementation. Absolutely not true. The original military requirements for GPS demanded timetransfer better then 10 microseconds for safe comms purposes. -- Poul-Henning Kamp

Re: how posterity will measure time

2006-12-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
any formal training in any kind of physics or natural science and conclude that they probably have religious significance which is the default explanation in that branch of history. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD

Re: how posterity will measure time

2006-12-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
. In the meantime, don't buy property near nuclear facilites. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: catching up, AAS and US Senate

2006-09-13 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
, and at the moment the link in the document seems to be named Section 2. It's still there in the PDF version, it's just not 508 anymore, it's moved up a couple of notches because other stuff were striken out. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC

Re: PT Barnum was right

2006-07-06 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
-held GPS for primary means of navigation is partly because of the worries about the slowness of updates. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately

Re: independence day

2006-07-05 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
as not, this is not a black helicopter job, but rather sloppy or uninformed text-processing. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately

Re: independence day

2006-07-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
.'. That could sound like the drilling of a loophole :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: building consensus

2006-06-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
-milking', Forelithe, Afterlithe, Wedmath 'weed-month', Halimath 'holy-month', Winterfilth '-filling', Blotmath 'sacrifice-month', Foreyule. At least some of these are obviously pre-Christian. They're practically all viking derived. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL

Re: ideas for new UTC rules

2006-04-14 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
leapsecond opportunities per year you will decrease reliability of the provisional table, compared to if there is only two opportunities per year. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe

Re: ideas for new UTC rules

2006-04-14 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
now, today, this minute? All in favor, say aye! aye! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: ideas for new UTC rules

2006-04-14 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes: On Fri 2006-04-14T09:43:45 +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: If you put a provisional table of leapseconds into your products and reality turns out differently, who is liable for the discrepancies ? It's a good question. My immediate response

Re: An immodest proposal

2006-02-14 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
Shops chain in the UK. One of the special gadgets that computer had was a multi-radix adder for dealing with the quaint coinage in UK at the time. The book is highly recommended. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD

Re: the tail wags the dog

2006-01-24 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
stop using rotating bodies of geophysics for timekeeping. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Internet-Draft on UTC-SLS

2006-01-19 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
bytes) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kuhn-leapsecond-00.txt The serious timekeeping people gave up on rubberseconds in 1972 and I will object with all that I can muster against reinventing them to paste over a problem that has a multitude of correct solutions. -- Poul-Henning Kamp

Re: Fixing POSIX time

2006-01-19 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Neal McBurnett writes: On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 12:59:42PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Assign different timescales very different numeric epochs: TAI:1972-01-01 00:00:00 UTC For TAI I'd suggest 1958-01-01, when TAI and UT

Re: Fixing POSIX time

2006-01-19 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], M. Warner Losh writes: I like this idea as well... Poul, maybe we should implement this on FreeBSD. I'd suggest working_time_t or correct_time_t as the name of the type to replace time_t which would be deprecated. :-) plenty_time_t :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp

Re: Internet-Draft on UTC-SLS

2006-01-19 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
become alergic to kludges and quick fixes of all kinds. The worse and the more hackish they are, the more red spots I get. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice

Re: Internet-Draft on UTC-SLS

2006-01-19 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
be taken as a surrender on my part, I still think leapseconds are wrong in every way one can imagine. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately

Re: Internet-Draft on UTC-SLS

2006-01-19 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: McCarthy point (was: Fixing POSIX time)

2006-01-19 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
(or having had measured) UT1 with maximum precision at the epoch. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained

Re: Internet-Draft on UTC-SLS

2006-01-19 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
' kernel PLL more complicated is unlikely to be implemented correctly. Actually the Mills PLL isn't implemented correctly in the first place, The fact that the design is pretty baroque doesn't help. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-18 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
understood and accepted that this is not the case. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Report of Leap Second Problem with GPS Data

2006-01-14 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Seaman writes: I invite derision with my flights of rhetoric. As published papers [1] document, you have way to go. Poul-Henning [1] George August, Anita Balliro et all, study of Rotation of the Earth, approx 1993. (find it yourself). -- Poul-Henning Kamp

Re: MJD and leap seconds

2006-01-10 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
rather than deal with the complications of parsing a date. It tends to be written into the FITS header of practically every data file observed. So how do you deal with fractional days in that format ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since

Re: MJD and leap seconds

2006-01-10 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
is rather notable. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: interoperability

2006-01-09 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes: On Mon 2006-01-09T08:20:40 +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: beginning (SI seconds are constant length). Yes, SI seconds are constant length, but the ghost of my general relativity teacher prompts me to assert that my SI seconds are not equal

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-09 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
it might appear. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-09 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Bunclark writes: On Mon, 9 Jan 2006, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: I don't think anybody dare even think about redefining POSIX time_t I wish people would stop making positive assertions about what other people are bound to think. What you mean in is, YOU

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-09 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Markus Kuhn writes: and you still cannot even get it reliably from your average local NTP server. This is a circular argument: The reason NTP doesn't provide it is that time_t needs UTC. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ed Davies writes: Wow, things have got really stirred up around here. Lots of interesting points but I'll just concentrate on one... Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Well, the BIPM doesn't really want anybody to use TAI, their director said as much last year, and I can

Re: The opportunity of leap seconds

2006-01-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
which reportedly still have not acknowledged the leap second, I think the overall indications are that the NTP network did better than 50 %.) My estimate is 50-70% of the pool.ntp.org servers did something close enough to the right thing. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes: On Sat 2006-01-07T21:20:33 +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: Well, the BIPM doesn't really want anybody to use TAI, their director said as much last year The Italian contribution to the November 2005 WP7A meeting could be interpreted

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Seaman writes: On Jan 8, 2006, at 5:38 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: As I understood it, it was mainly that TAI is a post-factum postal timescale. One is left pondering the fact that UTC is now (and would remain under any changes I've heard suggested) a time

Re: The opportunity of leap seconds

2006-01-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Bunclark writes: On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] You mean [EMAIL PROTECTED] That would be quiet useful. Otherwise let's not bother with NTP protocol, just [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't really care what the service

Re: interoperability

2006-01-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Seaman writes: On Jan 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Doing so would once and for all have to divorce earth orientation from that unified time scale, leaving it to governments to align civil time with daylight as they see fit (just like today

Re: interoperability

2006-01-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
timekeeping, and I am sure that they will think so themselves. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: interoperability

2006-01-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Defining our terms (was Re: [LEAPSECS] Longer leap second notice)

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], William Thompson writes: Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Universal Time = confusing term which comes handy when trying to manipulate discussions about leap second futures. I have to take issue with this one. My point was that when you just say

Re: Defining our terms (was Re: [LEAPSECS] Longer leap second notice)

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes: On Sat 2006-01-07T00:32:44 +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: UTC UTC(time) = TAI(time) + Leap(time) Owned by ITU. IERS evaluates Leap(time) according ITU definition Not quite

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael Sokolov writes: http://ivan.Harhan.ORG/~msokolov/articles/leapsecs.txt In this rather humorous document you have managed to say that POSIX screwed up badly. We already knew that :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: Defining our terms (was Re: [LEAPSECS] Longer leap second notice)

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Poul-Henning Kamp writes: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes: On Sat 2006-01-07T00:32:44 +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: At the beginning of 1984 and at the beginning of 2003 the branches of the IERS responsible for UT1 followed new IAU

HBG transmitted wrong info during leapsecond

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
Looks like the inserted the leapsecond after the minutemarker: http://phk.freebsd.dk/Leap/20051231_HBG/ -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can

Re: HBG transmitted wrong info during leapsecond

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
Inter's phase modulation. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
time and give each of them their own unique way of coping with leapseconds ? Ohh wait... That's what it looks like today already isn't it ? :-( -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
are we in a position to introduce a computer time scale in a pathetic attempt to paste over leap seconds. We can talk about _representation_ of a given timescale in computers, but there are far too many laws to rewrite if we want to dictate which timescale they should use. -- Poul-Henning Kamp

Re: The opportunity of leap seconds

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
) = UTC(time) + TimeZoneOffset(country, subdivision, time) + SeasonalOffset(country, subdivision, time) [various ramblings] -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
SG7A, which coincidentally didn't reach one either. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: The real problem with leap seconds

2006-01-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Allen writes: On Sat 2006-01-07T21:20:33 +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp hath writ: You can find locate your countrys ITU-R representative and contact them with your input, just as well as I can for mine. You can try that, and you may succeed, but it is deceptive

DCF77 leapsecond documented

2006-01-06 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
into the capture data and you can also see the extra second going from 28430.638 to 28491.639 Rugby and HBG and France Inter will follow in the coming days if I can get my software to decode them. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC

Re: Defining our terms (was Re: [LEAPSECS] Longer leap second notice)

2006-01-06 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
it more so. Now tell me why you think Leap seconds are so important again. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained

Re: Longer leap second notice

2006-01-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
byzantine decision scenarios (I have three references, one say leap second, one says no leap second and one says nothing, what should I do ?) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never

Re: Diagram of CHU Leap-Second Recording and Atomic Clock

2006-01-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
and the receiver will turn on more often to make sure it is still in sync. In the case of DCF77, that means that you'd have to be rather lucky for your clock to do the leapsecond in real time. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since

Re: civil time = solar time

2006-01-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
local civil time and international civil time should be predicatable and easy to calculate with Which is why the longitude conference decided on a 1 hour quantum. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD

Re: Where the responsibility lies

2006-01-03 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
hours will grow less rapidly than the need for leapseconds. In short, leap hours are - well - dumb. A proposal that relies on their use, naive. Leap hours or leap seconds is only a matter of magnitude and frequency and consequently both are equally naïve. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp

Re: Longer leap second notice, was: Where the responsibility lies

2006-01-03 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ed Davies writes: Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: If we can increase the tolerance to 10sec, IERS can give us the leapseconds with 20 years notice and only the minority of computers that survive longer than that would need to update the factory installed table

Re: Where the responsibility lies

2006-01-03 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Neal McBurnett writes: On Tue, Jan 03, 2006 at 08:32:08PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: If we can increase the tolerance to 10sec, IERS can give us the leapseconds with 20 years notice and only the minority of computers that survive longer than that would need

Re: NTP behavior in Australia

2006-01-02 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
the event, two stratum 3 servers in the set still had the leap warning bits set. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained

text book example why Leapseconds are bad

2006-01-01 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
http://lheawww.gsfc.nasa.gov/users/ebisawa/ASCAATTITUDE/ -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Software requirements

2005-12-22 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Daniel R. Tobias writes: On 21 Dec 2005 at 21:33, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: I suspect more real world computers are in roughly this situation as opposed to being absolutely dependent on being correct to the millisecond or microsecond at all times; the system clocks

Re: Schreiver AFB warns about leapsec

2005-12-21 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Francois Meyer writes: On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] on.fr, Francois Meyer writes : I second this too, 23:59:59 is the worst time to insert a leap second, since failing to implement it leaves you with the wrong

Schreiver AFB warns about leapsec

2005-12-20 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
Thousands of observations had to be discarded Problem was also evident at Clear However, host system software receiving the 23:59:60 time hack may not know what to do. System dependent response. They clearly know what the problem with leap seconds is :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since

Re: Schreiver AFB warns about leapsec

2005-12-20 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
pressure venue. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Lighter Evenings (Experiment) Bill [HL]

2005-12-19 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
of traction in USA. And of course, that is the crux of the matter: such decisions have more to do with politics than science or even reason. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Seaman writes: On Dec 7, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: ISO9000 certification only means that you have documented your quality assurance process. There is no requirement that your documentation pertains to or results in a quality product

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
program the technology that runs our civilization. Think about it next time you press a button. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately

Re: BBC - Leap second talks are postponed

2005-11-21 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
convention, or some UN/ITU related thing) which has superseeded the old law, but on the book, it is wrong. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can

Re: WP7A press release

2005-11-18 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
: IETF proved that standards work a lot better when anyone easily can get hold of them and everybody can afford to read them. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never

Re: International Conference on Civil Timekeeping (was Re: [LEAPSECS] WP7A press release)

2005-11-18 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Seaman writes: On Nov 18, 2005, at 5:21 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: As with any consensus-building, the weight is on whoever would like to see such emerge. For instance, just by debating the issue, the ITU is asserting that they own the UTC standard

Re: BBC - Leap second talks are postponed

2005-11-18 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
ITC, International Time Coordinated. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: RAS hits the news

2005-09-27 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
into the receive (which is probably why almanacs are still published by the GPS control segment people). -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately

Re: Comments on Civil Time decision tree

2005-09-26 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Bunclark writes: On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: On the other hand, even if we agree on one standard, or even just leave UTC as it is, are the astronomers and geophysiscists going to abandon UT1 ? If so, then this is the first I've heard

Re: RAS hits the news

2005-09-26 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
sort, because it takes from up to twelve minutes to happen, but it does not coincide with the @@Cb return of the newly aquired almanac. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never

Re: RAS hits the news

2005-09-26 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
leap seconds. Also, a GPS receiver that has cached the almanac can acquire satellites much more quickly than one who has to wait for the almanac to be downloaded. This is btw, the original design rationale for the almanac data set. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL

Re: RAS hits the news

2005-09-26 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
which would confirm that the almanac was current. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Comments on Civil Time decision tree

2005-09-26 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Daniel R. Tobias writes : On 26 Sep 2005 at 16:09, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Other more laid back parliaments like the Danish have not been able to find time to revisit the issue since 18xx and still use solar time at some more or less random coordinate. You mean

Re: Comments on Civil Time decision tree

2005-09-26 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
want it in. Right now, the clock on Mars Odyssey (as I type this) should be reading 2/0812228033. Dealing with things like leap seconds, local time conventions, and other time conversions are all handled here on Earth. But that strategy breaks down for human space flight ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp

Re: Consensus rather than compromise

2005-08-30 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
already agree on the above statement. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: Consensus rather than compromise

2005-08-30 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
we need just one other, published, open, correctly implemented, and tested library and all your problems go away. No, because all sorts of governments and companies mandate POSIX compliance so you couldn't sell the resulting product. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL

Re: Consensus rather than compromise

2005-08-30 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
still flash 12:00AM though. [2] Yes, I just saw the movie :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Re: vive le BIH!

2005-08-29 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
educational level with regards to timekeeping. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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