Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-09 Thread Clive D.W. Feather
Steve Allen said: This became a long-running joke in the morris dance community. A few years back some English town councils decided to become ISO 9000 compliant. That required them to ascertain that all of their sub-contractors were also compliant. Actually, it does nothing of the sort.

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-09 Thread Clive D.W. Feather
M. Warner Losh said: * A second is represented by an integer from 0 to 61; [...] but this specification follows the date and time conventions for ISO C. Of course, ISO C fixed this misunderstanding many years ago. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Tel:

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-09 Thread Peter Bunclark
On Fri, 9 Dec 2005, Clive D.W. Feather wrote: boundary than to deal with stuff coming in. In other words, it's easier to only buy widgets from ISO 9000 compliant suppliers than to provide an inbound widget quality test department. From what I understand from some of the recent emails, you

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-09 Thread Daniel R. Tobias
On 9 Dec 2005 at 10:42, David Harper wrote: On the other hand, the idea of ISO 9000 compliant Morris dancers is a very funny one. Presumably, they'd have to standardise the size of their pig's bladders. There's a Monty Python sketch just waiting to be written. I'm guessing that their level

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-08 Thread David Harper
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Some of us have been trying to drive this point though for some time: 99.99% of all programmers have no idea what a leap-second is. And these are the people who program the technology that runs our civilization. The confusion runs deeper than that. I discovered

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-08 Thread Randy Kaelber
On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 09:15:08AM +, David Harper wrote: When even Sun Microsystems can make this kind of mistake, with all of the resources at its disposal, Joe or Jane Programmer working for a small company can be forgiven for not being familiar with the arcane world of leap seconds.

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-08 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rob Seaman writes: On Dec 7, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: ISO9000 certification only means that you have documented your quality assurance process. There is no requirement that your documentation pertains to or results in a quality product. That

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Francois Meyer
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Steve Allen wrote: Finally we begin to see folks stand up and identify their systems as having abysmally failed to implement the UTC standard. http://www.acrelectronics.com/alerts/leap.htm In particular, see their technical bulletin

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Rob Seaman
On Dec 6, 2005, at 3:27 PM, Steve Allen wrote:Finally we begin to see folks stand up and identify their systems as having abysmally failed to implement the UTC standard. http://www.acrelectronics.com/alerts/leap.htmEven more remarkably, they proudly proclaim: "The quality systems of this

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread David Harper
Rob Seaman wrote: I don't know whether to be more embarrassed for the company or for the international standards process. How many companies claim ISO 9000 conformance? If they don't comprehend the requirements of international standards pertaining to their products, how likely is it that they

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Markus Kuhn
Rob Seaman wrote on 2005-12-07 13:59 UTC: http://www.acrelectronics.com/alerts/leap.htm Even more remarkably, they proudly proclaim: The quality systems of this facility have been registered by UL to the ISO 9000 Series Standards. So we have a company that manufactures a

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Steve Allen
On Wed 2005-12-07T06:59:39 -0700, Rob Seaman hath writ: it seems that one of two things must be true. Either the fact that the letter is dated December 5, 2005 indicates that they just now got around to acting on the July, 2005 announcement of the upcoming leap second - or, they acted upon

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Rob Seaman
Upon rereading my message, I'd like to backpedal a bit. I did not intend to assert any knowledge or comprehension (or even opinion) about the company's internal operations and decision-making process. We would likely all be interested, however, if Mr. Bell were to comment on the delay between

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread William Thompson
Steve Allen wrote: On Wed 2005-12-07T06:59:39 -0700, Rob Seaman hath writ: it seems that one of two things must be true. Either the fact that the letter is dated December 5, 2005 indicates that they just now got around to acting on the July, 2005 announcement of the upcoming leap second - or,

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Steve Allen
On Wed 2005-12-07T14:56:35 +, Markus Kuhn hath writ: As a general-purpose management standard, ISO 9001 obviously says nothing about how you have to handle leap seconds. ISO 9001 does not even specify any particular level of quality. All it does is tell you how you must document what level

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Brian Garrett
- Original Message - From: Steve Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LEAPSECS@ROM.USNO.NAVY.MIL Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 7:01 AM Subject: Re: [LEAPSECS] a system that fails spectacularly On Wed 2005-12-07T06:59:39 -0700, Rob Seaman hath writ: it seems that one of two things must be

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Brian Garrett writes: And you've gotta love the interpretation of UTC as Universal Time Code in the Canadian report. If they don't understand what UTC is, or at the very least understand that their users are going to be confused by their misleading use of the

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread M. Warner Losh
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poul-Henning Kamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : ISO9000 certification only means that you have documented your : quality assurance process. : : There is no requirement that your documentation pertains to : or results in a quality product. : : One of the

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Conrad Poelman
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:35:04 +, David Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Rob Seaman wrote: I don't know whether to be more embarrassed for the company or for the international standards process. How many companies claim ISO 9000 conformance? If they don't comprehend the requirements of

Re: a system that fails spectacularly

2005-12-07 Thread Rob Seaman
On Dec 7, 2005, at 2:17 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Some of us have been trying to drive this point though for some time: 99.99% of all programmers have no idea what a leap-second is. 100.00% of everybody live on a planet whose rotation is slowing by a couple of milliseconds per day per