Re: Deposit money to be cleared at a later point in time

[Simon Michael]

On 4/14/18 2:12 PM, Klauss Hass wrote:

You could also use effective dates for that:

2018-01-04  TV Set purchase
Expenses:Electronics. $1050
* Assets:Banking  -$800 ;  [=2018-01-04]
! Assets:Banking  -$250 ;  [=2018-02-04]



Or just a regular posting date:

2018-01-04  TV Set purchase
Expenses:Electronics. $1050
* Assets:Banking  -$800
! Assets:Banking  -$250 ;  [2018-02-04]



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Re: Deposit money to be cleared at a later point in time

[o1bigtenor]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 2:45 PM, Johann Höchtl 
wrote:

>
>
> On 2018-04-14 21:25, Taylor R Campbell wrote:
>
>> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 19:21:03 +
>>> From: Taylor R Campbell 
>>>
>>> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
 From: Johann Höchtl 

 2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
Deposit:Electronics  $250
Assets:Banking  -$250
Expenses:Electronics
Deposit:Electronics   = $0

>>> This is reasonable for accrual-based accounting, though I would put
>>> Deposits under Assets, Assets:Deposits:Electronics (or even a more
>>> detailed Assets:Deposits:ACME Vendor, Inc.:20180104 to separate it
>>> from other deposits), since presumably if you don't make the second
>>> payment then the vendor is obligated to return the funds, so they
>>> count toward your assets until you commit with the second payment.
>>>
>> This can also be simplified a little bit: just draw from the deposit
>> and your bank simultaneously, rather than adding to the deposit and
>> then subtracting from it:
>>
>> 2018-02-04 TV set delivery
>> Expenses:Electronics   $1050
>> Assets:Banking $-250
>> Deposit:Electronics$-800 = $0
>>
>> (Both the negative amounts are omissible too, I think, though the
>> redundancy doesn't hurt for error-checking.)
>>
> And every day I learn sthg. new. Thank you for clarifying and pointing me
> to that syntax.
>
>
> BTW. with language semantics I meant my mother tongue is not English and
> English "accountants talk" is rather alien to me.
>
>
> Für mich würde die Steuerbeamten Wortschatz fehlen aber Ich könnte die
zwishenraede leicht genug dolmetschen!

Dee

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Re: Deposit money to be cleared at a later point in time

[Klauss Hass]

You could also use effective dates for that:

2018-01-04  TV Set purchase
Expenses:Electronics. $1050
* Assets:Banking  -$800 ;  [=2018-01-04]
! Assets:Banking  -$250 ;  [=2018-02-04]


> On 14 Apr 2018, at 15:24, Johann Höchtl  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> one bigger problem is that language semantics at times makes it really hard 
> to properly understand the ledger manual 
> https://www.ledger-cli.org/3.0/doc/ledger3.html so I may ask a totally 
> obvious question.
> 
> Suppose I buy sthg. but delivery takes time. So I have to make a 
> "pre-payment" ? / is this the same as a deposit? How would I structure that 
> in ledger?
> 
> Instead of
> 
> 2018-01-04 * TV set pre-paymant
>   Expenses:Electronics   $800
>   Assets:Banking
> 
> 2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
>   Expenses:Electronics   $250
>   Assets:Banking
> 
> 
> My idea would instead be: 
> 
> 2018-01-04 * TV set pre-payment
>   Deposit:Electronics   $800
>   Assets:Banking
> 
> 2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
>   Deposit:Electronics  $250
>   Assets:Banking  -$250
>   Expenses:Electronics
>   Deposit:Electronics   = $0 
> 
> 
> Does this make sense? Are there better ways to represent pre-payments for 
> expected goods not yet delivered?
> 
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Re: Deposit money to be cleared at a later point in time

[Johann Höchtl]

On 2018-04-14 21:25, Taylor R Campbell wrote:

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 19:21:03 +
From: Taylor R Campbell 


Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Johann Höchtl 

2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
   Deposit:Electronics  $250
   Assets:Banking  -$250
   Expenses:Electronics
   Deposit:Electronics   = $0

This is reasonable for accrual-based accounting, though I would put
Deposits under Assets, Assets:Deposits:Electronics (or even a more
detailed Assets:Deposits:ACME Vendor, Inc.:20180104 to separate it
from other deposits), since presumably if you don't make the second
payment then the vendor is obligated to return the funds, so they
count toward your assets until you commit with the second payment.

This can also be simplified a little bit: just draw from the deposit
and your bank simultaneously, rather than adding to the deposit and
then subtracting from it:

2018-02-04 TV set delivery
Expenses:Electronics   $1050
Assets:Banking $-250
Deposit:Electronics$-800 = $0

(Both the negative amounts are omissible too, I think, though the
redundancy doesn't hurt for error-checking.)
And every day I learn sthg. new. Thank you for clarifying and pointing 
me to that syntax.



BTW. with language semantics I meant my mother tongue is not English and 
English "accountants talk" is rather alien to me.


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Re: Deposit money to be cleared at a later point in time

[Taylor R Campbell]

> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 19:21:03 +
> From: Taylor R Campbell 
> 
> > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Johann Höchtl 
> > 
> > 2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
> >   Deposit:Electronics  $250
> >   Assets:Banking  -$250
> >   Expenses:Electronics
> >   Deposit:Electronics   = $0 
> 
> This is reasonable for accrual-based accounting, though I would put
> Deposits under Assets, Assets:Deposits:Electronics (or even a more
> detailed Assets:Deposits:ACME Vendor, Inc.:20180104 to separate it
> from other deposits), since presumably if you don't make the second
> payment then the vendor is obligated to return the funds, so they
> count toward your assets until you commit with the second payment.

This can also be simplified a little bit: just draw from the deposit
and your bank simultaneously, rather than adding to the deposit and
then subtracting from it:

2018-02-04 TV set delivery
   Expenses:Electronics   $1050
   Assets:Banking $-250
   Deposit:Electronics$-800 = $0

(Both the negative amounts are omissible too, I think, though the
redundancy doesn't hurt for error-checking.)

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Re: Deposit money to be cleared at a later point in time

[Taylor R Campbell]

> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Johann Höchtl 
> 
> Suppose I buy sthg. but delivery takes time. So I have to make a 
> "pre-payment" ? / is this the same as a deposit? How would I structure that 
> in ledger?
> 
> Instead of
> 
> 2018-01-04 * TV set pre-paymant
>   Expenses:Electronics   $800
>   Assets:Banking
> 
> 2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
>   Expenses:Electronics   $250
>   Assets:Banking

This is reasonable for cash-based accounting when you're recording
only where the funds physically are, but wrong for accrual-based
accounting because you're really committing to your ownership of the
television set once yet there are two separate expense transactions.

> My idea would instead be: 
> 
> 2018-01-04 * TV set pre-payment
>   Deposit:Electronics   $800
>   Assets:Banking
> 
> 2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
>   Deposit:Electronics  $250
>   Assets:Banking  -$250
>   Expenses:Electronics
>   Deposit:Electronics   = $0 
> 
> Does this make sense? Are there better ways to represent pre-payments for 
> expected goods not yet delivered?

This is reasonable for accrual-based accounting, though I would put
Deposits under Assets, Assets:Deposits:Electronics (or even a more
detailed Assets:Deposits:ACME Vendor, Inc.:20180104 to separate it
from other deposits), since presumably if you don't make the second
payment then the vendor is obligated to return the funds, so they
count toward your assets until you commit with the second payment.

The other alternative is if the `prepayment' is a _down payment_ with
a loan, if the purchase of the television set actually happens in the
first transaction, as is usually the case for (e.g.) car and house
ownership in the United States.  In that case, it would be better
written as

2018-01-04 TV set purchase
   Expenses:Electroncs$1050
   Liabilities:TV set loan$-800 
   Assets:Banking $-250

2018-02-04 TV set loan payment
   Liabilities:TV set loan $800 = $0
   Assets:Banking

But your case sounds more like a deposit than a down payment.

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Re: Deposit money to be cleared at a later point in time

[Craig Earls]

"If it makes sense to you, than that is what you should do."

I should put that in the manual.



On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Johann Höchtl 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> one bigger problem is that language semantics at times makes it really
> hard to properly understand the ledger manual
> https://www.ledger-cli.org/3.0/doc/ledger3.html so I may ask a totally
> obvious question.
>
> Suppose I buy sthg. but delivery takes time. So I have to make a
> "pre-payment" ? / is this the same as a deposit? How would I structure that
> in ledger?
>
> Instead of
>
> 2018-01-04 * TV set pre-paymant
>   Expenses:Electronics   $800
>   Assets:Banking
>
> 2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
>   Expenses:Electronics   $250
>   Assets:Banking
>
>
> My idea would instead be:
>
> 2018-01-04 * TV set pre-payment
>   Deposit:Electronics   $800
>   Assets:Banking
>
> 2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
>   Deposit:Electronics  $250
>   Assets:Banking  -$250
>   Expenses:Electronics
>   Deposit:Electronics   = $0
>
>
> Does this make sense? Are there better ways to represent pre-payments for
> expected goods not yet delivered?
>
> --
>
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>



-- 
Craig, Corona De Tucson, AZ
[image: missile_flyout]
enderw88.wordpress.com

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Deposit money to be cleared at a later point in time

[Johann Höchtl]

Hi,

one bigger problem is that language semantics at times makes it really hard 
to properly understand the ledger manual 
https://www.ledger-cli.org/3.0/doc/ledger3.html so I may ask a totally 
obvious question.

Suppose I buy sthg. but delivery takes time. So I have to make a 
"pre-payment" ? / is this the same as a deposit? How would I structure that 
in ledger?

Instead of

2018-01-04 * TV set pre-paymant
  Expenses:Electronics   $800
  Assets:Banking

2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
  Expenses:Electronics   $250
  Assets:Banking


My idea would instead be: 

2018-01-04 * TV set pre-payment
  Deposit:Electronics   $800
  Assets:Banking

2018-02-04 * TV set delivery
  Deposit:Electronics  $250
  Assets:Banking  -$250
  Expenses:Electronics
  Deposit:Electronics   = $0 


Does this make sense? Are there better ways to represent pre-payments for 
expected goods not yet delivered?

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