Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OSM content on locked platforms
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:36 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I would be interested in your thoughts on the legal situation here. Is distributing an OSM-derived data set on such a closed platform still CC-BY-SA conformant? Could I, if I were selling such an app, just say: Here's the package on my web site for download - of course to install it on the iPhone you must go through the Appstore and pay $9.99 but if you jailbreak your phone then you can use the free version from my web page. Of course by jailbreaking it you violate Apple's license conditions... Actually AFAIK you have to use Appstore to distribute you apps, if you use pirate channels you can get your App removed (I'm not certain of this). -- /emj ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OSM content on locked platforms
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:36 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I would be interested in your thoughts on the legal situation here. Is distributing an OSM-derived data set on such a closed platform still CC-BY-SA conformant? Lets think about this in a different way, lets assume that i want to embed glibc in my microwave oven, All I have to do is make the source available, but not in the oven. According to the gpl you are required to have a written offer somewhere in the fine print that the sources are available. Maybe CCSA would turn out that way, there is no rule that it has to be easy. I can imagine that they would be able do just say, here, we got the data from osm and you can get the data from us if you need to. Now the issue of access to the data from the user can be overridded by an EULA and all other restraints, like a clause that says : All our data belongs to us, if you want it back, fill out this FOI form and send it to the legal department, wait 3-6 weeks and please dont call. just thinking out out, I am not a laywer. mike ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OSM content on locked platforms
Interesting, the CC BY SA quote does rather suggest that such an application is not CC BY SA compliant. Two linked observations almost lead me to believe that the closed nature of a platform is irrelevant, what is important is the effort made by the individual developer to keep data/images free and open: 1) Is it not the closed nature of the application rather than the operating system? For example, If there was a button such as email me the current map tile, that would still be Apple conformant (I expect) as the application is still locked to the phone and CC-BY-SA conformant as the map is copiable. 2) If the London A-Z is published as a good old book, no mechanism is provided for exchanging the work with others. They don't give you a photo copier. So the acid test would be whether there is a deliberate attempt to block access to the copying the map (rather than the application) at a reasonable but not necessarily identical level of quality ? Another reason to change to ODbL? :-)Here the A-Z map would most likely be a Produced Work which can be under any type of license. The application developer would be obligated to make the underlying data available, via an open download that does not require an an iPhone. The one area that is still up for community guideline development is to what extent the in-memory transformation process he used should also be made available. Mike At 12:36 AM 3/04/2010, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, a recent discussion on talk-de has unearthed an interesting question with regards to iPhone/Appstore and other locked platforms. You will have to correct me if I'm wrong about the technical aspects of the Apple product range, since I am firmly on the Cory Doctorow side when it comes to iSomethings. But as I understand it, the iPhone is a platform that does not allow you to easily exchange software or data between devices. You can send someone an email to his iPhone but you cannot send them an application to install, and you cannot even send them, say, a new dictionary for the word processor software unless that word processor software explicitly has a feature that provides for such exchange. Now let's assume someone publishes, for a price, an application called the London A-Z for the iPhone, which is basically a map viewer with a data component, all data being derived from OSM and stored in the application. Now, CC-BY-SA requires that whoever buys this application should have the full right to make derivative works (of the data), pass it (the data) on, etc.etc., and indeed it also says: You may not distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform the Work with any technological measures that control access or use of the Work in a manner inconsistent with the terms of this License Agreement. If I understand things correctly, then the whole iPhone/Appstore/Apple operating system combo is just that - a technological measure that controls access and use of the work, because you cannot retrieve the work from the iPhone without jailbreaking it, and you cannot install it on another iPhone without jailbreaking that. I would be interested in your thoughts on the legal situation here. Is distributing an OSM-derived data set on such a closed platform still CC-BY-SA conformant? Could I, if I were selling such an app, just say: Here's the package on my web site for download - of course to install it on the iPhone you must go through the Appstore and pay $9.99 but if you jailbreak your phone then you can use the free version from my web page. Of course by jailbreaking it you violate Apple's license conditions... - I mean it's not the software provider's fault that only DRM'ed software goes on the iPhone. Or is it? This also leads to interesting follow-on questions, namely (a) what would the ODbL say in a similar case? (b) is it in our interest - in the interest of open data - to allow such distribution of our data through closed platforms? Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OSM content on locked platforms
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, a recent discussion on talk-de has unearthed an interesting question with regards to iPhone/Appstore and other locked platforms. [... ] Now, CC-BY-SA requires that whoever buys this application should have the full right to make derivative works (of the data), pass it (the data) on, etc.etc., and indeed it also says: You may not distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform the Work with any technological measures that control access or use of the Work in a manner inconsistent with the terms of this License Agreement. If I understand things correctly, then the whole iPhone/Appstore/Apple operating system combo is just that - a technological measure that controls access and use of the work, because you cannot retrieve the work from the iPhone without jailbreaking it, and you cannot install it on another iPhone without jailbreaking that. I believe that you are correct. As you describe it cc-by-sa is not allowed on iStuff due to technological measures. One might argue that making the work available outside the iPrison then becomes consistent again and satisfies cc-by-sa. Mike Collinson's suggestion of a button in the application might satisfy everybody. (a) what would the ODbL say in a similar case? ODbL v1, by comparison, explicitly requires this out-of-band distribution of the unlocked work to be compliant with OdBL 4.7b (b) is it in our interest - in the interest of open data - to allow such distribution of our data through closed platforms? I believe it is in our interest to not prohibit any field of endeavor. In this case we shouldn't deny a developer their platform of choice. No special additional restrictions for iPrison. But no special reduction in obligations either. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
