Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource
On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: If they want to release it under public domain they should just stick a CC0 or PDDL license on it. This would be far simpler than trying to figure out how a grant of rights to a third-party organization affects us, and would allow the use of the data by anyone, including Wikipedia, without any further work. To be clear, I don't think going through OTRS makes a lot of sense in this specific case. But let me explain what OTRS is (not a grant of rights to a third-party!), and why an approach like OTRS's could be useful for OSM to think about in the future. OTRS's process is for *recording* a *public* license. If you submit material to OTRS through the process, what you're doing is explicitly stating, in a binding format, that you've agreed to publish the material under a public license. (Usually CC BY-SA, but no reason it couldn't CC0 or similar PD waiver.) It is not a grant to Wikimedia specifically. Our role is to keep the paperwork, so that if someone changes their mind later we can say no, you made this grant; the grant was to the public, not just us; and it was irrevocable. Assuming a compatible license (like CC0) other people/groups, like OSM, should be able to rely on the statement about the license. This process tends to be used in the Wikipedia community primarily when there is some concern that the rights grant might not be genuine or well-understood. An example is when a celebrity wants to grant us rights to use their picture. The celebrity may not understand what they are giving up - that the license is to the public, global, irrevocable, etc. And they may not have other public means (like a website with licensing information) to make a binding promise through. So instead of them just saying off-the-cuff yeah, sure, do whatever you want, we get them on the record that they are placing the picture under CC BY-SA. This protects both us and further downstream users (which, again, could include OSM when the statement is about a compatible license). The reason this might be relevant for OSM is that a similar process might be useful for governments and other big data donors. Ideally you want them to make a clear promise to the world on their website - the license for data X is Y. But if for some reason they can't do that, there is a difference between a low-level bureaucrat saying yeah, sure, do whatever you want and the relevant bosses, lawyers, legislatures, etc. signing off and really agreeing to ODBL/CC0/etc. in a binding manner that the OSM community can rely on. I thought OSM already had such a process, but I don't see any mention of it in this thread, so I must be confusing it with something else. Hope that helps- Luis *From:* Mike Dupont [mailto:jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com] *Sent:* Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:10 PM *To:* Stephan Knauss *Cc:* Licensing and other legal discussions. *Subject:* Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource Oh i almost forgot. Well look, they could use the otrs for marking it as public domain. I am sure you can modify the otrs text to include a special text for osm as well. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Email_templates so just add in the osm text as well as the creative commons. make it multi licensed. you might want to send them things about open public data initiatives : http://sunlightfoundation.com/opendataguidelines/ http://project-open-data.github.io/ http://wiki.civiccommons.org/Open_Data_Policy mike On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote: If the data is creative commons we can't use it. We can't neither fulfill the attribution nor is it compatible with the contributor terms which allows changing the license. Stephan On April 19, 2014 5:19:54 PM CEST, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Well no, Mike, I don't think so. What rights a publisher grants to Wikipedia has nothing to do with what rights a publisher grants to OpenStreetMap. Wikipedia has no ownership interest in OpenStreetMap, nor vice-versa. If wikipedia is granted rights, it is not exclusive, if the data is under a public domain or creative commons then osm can use it. There is no data on wikipedia except fair use pictures that cannot be used in osm. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Luis Villa Deputy General Counsel Wikimedia Foundation 415.839.6885 ext. 6810 NOTICE: *This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource
On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Well no, Mike, I don't think so. What rights a publisher grants to Wikipedia has nothing to do with what rights a publisher grants to OpenStreetMap. Wikipedia has no ownership interest in OpenStreetMap, nor vice-versa. If wikipedia is granted rights, it is not exclusive, if the data is under a public domain or creative commons then osm can use it. There is no data on wikipedia except fair use pictures that cannot be used in osm. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource
If the data is creative commons we can't use it. We can't neither fulfill the attribution nor is it compatible with the contributor terms which allows changing the license. Stephan On April 19, 2014 5:19:54 PM CEST, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Well no, Mike, I don't think so. What rights a publisher grants to Wikipedia has nothing to do with what rights a publisher grants to OpenStreetMap. Wikipedia has no ownership interest in OpenStreetMap, nor vice-versa. If wikipedia is granted rights, it is not exclusive, if the data is under a public domain or creative commons then osm can use it. There is no data on wikipedia except fair use pictures that cannot be used in osm. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource
Oh i almost forgot. Well look, they could use the otrs for marking it as public domain. I am sure you can modify the otrs text to include a special text for osm as well. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Email_templates so just add in the osm text as well as the creative commons. make it multi licensed. you might want to send them things about open public data initiatives : http://sunlightfoundation.com/opendataguidelines/ http://project-open-data.github.io/ http://wiki.civiccommons.org/Open_Data_Policy mike On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.dewrote: If the data is creative commons we can't use it. We can't neither fulfill the attribution nor is it compatible with the contributor terms which allows changing the license. Stephan On April 19, 2014 5:19:54 PM CEST, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Well no, Mike, I don't think so. What rights a publisher grants to Wikipedia has nothing to do with what rights a publisher grants to OpenStreetMap. Wikipedia has no ownership interest in OpenStreetMap, nor vice-versa. If wikipedia is granted rights, it is not exclusive, if the data is under a public domain or creative commons then osm can use it. There is no data on wikipedia except fair use pictures that cannot be used in osm. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource
If they want to release it under public domain they should just stick a CC0 or PDDL license on it. This would be far simpler than trying to figure out how a grant of rights to a third-party organization affects us, and would allow the use of the data by anyone, including Wikipedia, without any further work. From: Mike Dupont [mailto:jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:10 PM To: Stephan Knauss Cc: Licensing and other legal discussions. Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource Oh i almost forgot. Well look, they could use the otrs for marking it as public domain. I am sure you can modify the otrs text to include a special text for osm as well. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Email_templates so just add in the osm text as well as the creative commons. make it multi licensed. you might want to send them things about open public data initiatives : http://sunlightfoundation.com/opendataguidelines/ http://project-open-data.github.io/ http://wiki.civiccommons.org/Open_Data_Policy mike On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Stephan Knauss o...@stephans-server.de wrote: If the data is creative commons we can't use it. We can't neither fulfill the attribution nor is it compatible with the contributor terms which allows changing the license. Stephan On April 19, 2014 5:19:54 PM CEST, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Well no, Mike, I don't think so. What rights a publisher grants to Wikipedia has nothing to do with what rights a publisher grants to OpenStreetMap. Wikipedia has no ownership interest in OpenStreetMap, nor vice-versa. If wikipedia is granted rights, it is not exclusive, if the data is under a public domain or creative commons then osm can use it. There is no data on wikipedia except fair use pictures that cannot be used in osm. mike -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource
Greetings, I am interested in better data for Indiana, USA, and would like to have someone else double-check that there are no legal/policy issues with using GIS data from IndianaMap[1] in OSM. I talked to one of their employees over the phone, and he said that the data is completely public, with no usage or attribution requirements or restrictions, and specifically confirmed that using it in OSM is OK. Terms on the metadata for what I'm interested in seem to say the same[2]. Basically, I want to get a confirmation from more experienced OSM contributors before I explore the feasibility of importing any of this data. There might be general issues that I'm not aware of yet. [1] http://www.indianamap.org/resources.php [2] http://maps.indiana.edu/metadata/Reference/Land_Parcels_County_IDHS.html Thanks! -- Eric Jiang, DoubleMap Suite 300W | 748 E. Bates Street | Indianapolis, IN 46202 www.doublemap.com | Office +1(855) 463-6655 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource
the wikipedia has a nice otrs system, I supposed you could use it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OTRS so let them sign something that allows the data to be used by wikipedia and that should cover osm as well. On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Eric Jiang e...@doublemap.com wrote: Greetings, I am interested in better data for Indiana, USA, and would like to have someone else double-check that there are no legal/policy issues with using GIS data from IndianaMap[1] in OSM. I talked to one of their employees over the phone, and he said that the data is completely public, with no usage or attribution requirements or restrictions, and specifically confirmed that using it in OSM is OK. Terms on the metadata for what I'm interested in seem to say the same[2]. Basically, I want to get a confirmation from more experienced OSM contributors before I explore the feasibility of importing any of this data. There might be general issues that I'm not aware of yet. [1] http://www.indianamap.org/resources.php [2] http://maps.indiana.edu/metadata/Reference/Land_Parcels_County_IDHS.html Thanks! -- Eric Jiang, DoubleMap Suite 300W | 748 E. Bates Street | Indianapolis, IN 46202 www.doublemap.com | Office +1(855) 463-6655 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource
On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: the wikipedia has a nice otrs system, I supposed you could use it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OTRS so let them sign something that allows the data to be used by wikipedia and that should cover osm as well. I'm not aware of data donations being made through OTRS. Not impossible to do, of course, but it would have to be done carefully if it were actually going to be useful for both Wikidata and OSM (given the licensing differences). Lydia, do you know of any cases where contributions have been made through OTRS to Wikidata? [I thought OSM already had a procedure for this, but I couldn't find it, so I thought I'd reply to clarify that our process may or may not be enough.] Luis On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Eric Jiang e...@doublemap.com wrote: Greetings, I am interested in better data for Indiana, USA, and would like to have someone else double-check that there are no legal/policy issues with using GIS data from IndianaMap[1] in OSM. I talked to one of their employees over the phone, and he said that the data is completely public, with no usage or attribution requirements or restrictions, and specifically confirmed that using it in OSM is OK. Terms on the metadata for what I'm interested in seem to say the same[2]. Basically, I want to get a confirmation from more experienced OSM contributors before I explore the feasibility of importing any of this data. There might be general issues that I'm not aware of yet. [1] http://www.indianamap.org/resources.php [2] http://maps.indiana.edu/metadata/Reference/Land_Parcels_County_IDHS.html Thanks! -- Eric Jiang, DoubleMap Suite 300W | 748 E. Bates Street | Indianapolis, IN 46202 www.doublemap.com | Office +1(855) 463-6655 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://www.flossk.org Saving Wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk -- Luis Villa Deputy General Counsel Wikimedia Foundation 415.839.6885 ext. 6810 NOTICE: *This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical reasons I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity.* ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Review of IndianaMap as potential datasource
On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 1:02 PM, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: the wikipedia has a nice otrs system, I supposed you could use it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OTRS so let them sign something that allows the data to be used by wikipedia and that should cover osm as well. Well no, Mike, I don't think so. What rights a publisher grants to Wikipedia has nothing to do with what rights a publisher grants to OpenStreetMap. Wikipedia has no ownership interest in OpenStreetMap, nor vice-versa. Eric, please do take advantage of the imports@ and imports-us@ lists. You'll need to clear your plan and each step with them as you investigate, as well as talk-us@. The verbal permission is a good start. See if you can get it in writing. Others have had email with permission to publish the email, then add it to the wiki. https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/imports-us https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Best regards and happy mapping, Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
