[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #29 from Chris Sherlock  ---
Sorry, I'm literally still learning how to develop on OS X :(

I'm happy to look into it, but not sure how long it will take me to work this
out... I've been a bit ill lately and I have another thing I'm working on in
the VCL module that I need to focus on first once I'm physically able to.

But please keep me on the list, if/when I look at this I'll either add a
comment or submit something to gerrit and note it here.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #29 from Chris Sherlock  ---
Sorry, I'm literally still learning how to develop on OS X :(

I'm happy to look into it, but not sure how long it will take me to work this
out... I've been a bit ill lately and I have another thing I'm working on in
the VCL module that I need to focus on first once I'm physically able to.

But please keep me on the list, if/when I look at this I'll either add a
comment or submit something to gerrit and note it here.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

jan iversen  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard||ToBeReviewed

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

jan iversen  changed:

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 Whiteboard||ToBeReviewed

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #26 from Sierk Bornemann  ---
(In reply to barefootguru from comment #7)
> 3. Have one download which includes all languages, like every other Mac app

+1 (!)



(In reply to steve -_- from comment #16)
> Raising importance to high | major
[...]
> There must be a better way to deal with this situation. I don't think
> ignoring it, will make it go away.

+1 (!)



(In reply to barefootguru from comment #18)
[...]
> I think the current system is unacceptable and user hostile:
> 
> - you shouldn't have to download 2 things to install LO.  Almost no other
> Mac app has this requirement
[...]
> LO needs a single installer or drag-and-drop install, like almost every
> other Mac app.
[...]
> It should be:
> 
> 1. Download LO
> 2. Install LO
> 3. Run LO (LO remembers your language preference)

+1 (!)



(In reply to Frank Fuchs from comment #20)
[...]
> The problem is even worse than barefootguru described: Because the language
> packs are not signed, you have open the language pack (the one within the
> .dmg) with a "right click" and then acknowledge installing from an unsigned
> installation package - something Apple warns you not to do.
> If you look at all these steps needed, I'm fairly sure a "normal" (i.e.
> non-IT) user will have major difficulties and likely fail w/o IT support.
> 
> My 2 cents:
> I think the LO team needs to accept that support for a specific platform
> like OSX requires a "minimum" of platform specific support - and this starts
> with a user-friendly and secure way to install the application in line with
> the operating system's guidelines.
> And: If I look at the Windows version of LO, it certainly uses a lot of
> Windows-specific installation magic (e.g. the registry) to ensure proper
> installation.
> 
> My recommendation:
> If the LO team is unsure about the best "long-term" solution, a "quick fix"
> needs to be provided, soon. I believe an easy one is to provide exactly one
> single *signed* package (including all the language files). While this
> requires somewhat more space on your permanent storage device, I'm firmly
> convinced that this is the lesser evil (esp. taking into account current
> storage medium prices). That'll give everyone enough time to work on a more
> intelligent installation process (maybe like the one on Windows where you
> select what parts of LO and which languages you want to install).

+1 (!)

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #26 from Sierk Bornemann  ---
(In reply to barefootguru from comment #7)
> 3. Have one download which includes all languages, like every other Mac app

+1 (!)



(In reply to steve -_- from comment #16)
> Raising importance to high | major
[...]
> There must be a better way to deal with this situation. I don't think
> ignoring it, will make it go away.

+1 (!)



(In reply to barefootguru from comment #18)
[...]
> I think the current system is unacceptable and user hostile:
> 
> - you shouldn't have to download 2 things to install LO.  Almost no other
> Mac app has this requirement
[...]
> LO needs a single installer or drag-and-drop install, like almost every
> other Mac app.
[...]
> It should be:
> 
> 1. Download LO
> 2. Install LO
> 3. Run LO (LO remembers your language preference)

+1 (!)



(In reply to Frank Fuchs from comment #20)
[...]
> The problem is even worse than barefootguru described: Because the language
> packs are not signed, you have open the language pack (the one within the
> .dmg) with a "right click" and then acknowledge installing from an unsigned
> installation package - something Apple warns you not to do.
> If you look at all these steps needed, I'm fairly sure a "normal" (i.e.
> non-IT) user will have major difficulties and likely fail w/o IT support.
> 
> My 2 cents:
> I think the LO team needs to accept that support for a specific platform
> like OSX requires a "minimum" of platform specific support - and this starts
> with a user-friendly and secure way to install the application in line with
> the operating system's guidelines.
> And: If I look at the Windows version of LO, it certainly uses a lot of
> Windows-specific installation magic (e.g. the registry) to ensure proper
> installation.
> 
> My recommendation:
> If the LO team is unsure about the best "long-term" solution, a "quick fix"
> needs to be provided, soon. I believe an easy one is to provide exactly one
> single *signed* package (including all the language files). While this
> requires somewhat more space on your permanent storage device, I'm firmly
> convinced that this is the lesser evil (esp. taking into account current
> storage medium prices). That'll give everyone enough time to work on a more
> intelligent installation process (maybe like the one on Windows where you
> select what parts of LO and which languages you want to install).

+1 (!)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

Sierk Bornemann  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||42082

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

Sierk Bornemann  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||42082

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #28 from barefootguru  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #27)
> @Chris, want to be a hero to your fellow OS X users?  ;-)
>   
> See Thorsten's code tip in comment 8

Unless the AppleScript will be run automatically, seamlessly, when someone
downloads LO, it's not going to help your average user.

Even my computer-literate friends/family struggle with LO, while managing their
Mac and other apps fine.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #28 from barefootguru  ---
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #27)
> @Chris, want to be a hero to your fellow OS X users?  ;-)
>   
> See Thorsten's code tip in comment 8

Unless the AppleScript will be run automatically, seamlessly, when someone
downloads LO, it's not going to help your average user.

Even my computer-literate friends/family struggle with LO, while managing their
Mac and other apps fine.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||chris.sherloc...@gmail.com

--- Comment #27 from V Stuart Foote  ---
@Chris, want to be a hero to your fellow OS X users?  ;-)

See Thorsten's code tip in comment 8

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||chris.sherloc...@gmail.com

--- Comment #27 from V Stuart Foote  ---
@Chris, want to be a hero to your fellow OS X users?  ;-)

See Thorsten's code tip in comment 8

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #25 from barefootguru  ---
Thanks Frank, had forgotten you needed to right-click when installing language
pack.

Note you *can* run LO if you immediately install a language pack, but it
requires completely turning off Gatekeeper before launching it.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #25 from barefootguru  ---
Thanks Frank, had forgotten you needed to right-click when installing language
pack.

Note you *can* run LO if you immediately install a language pack, but it
requires completely turning off Gatekeeper before launching it.

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|high|medium
Summary|lang-pack installation  |The lang-pack installation
   |mechanism on OSX can result |mechanism on OSX
   |in broken LO installation   |unacceptable -- needs
   |which cannot be opened  |refactoring for better
   ||installation UX
   Severity|major   |normal

--- Comment #17 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Back to Medium Normal -- sorry but the "sky is not falling".

Title back to the more appropriate for this issue which is need for refactoring
the handling of Lang Packs on OSX.

bug 93331 is the issue with Lang Packs installation as currently implemented

The Workaround as published to 5.0 release notes, and incrementals, remains
valid.

Install LO package onto OSX -> Run it once -> Install the lang pack.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|high|medium
Summary|lang-pack installation  |The lang-pack installation
   |mechanism on OSX can result |mechanism on OSX
   |in broken LO installation   |unacceptable -- needs
   |which cannot be opened  |refactoring for better
   ||installation UX
   Severity|major   |normal

--- Comment #17 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Back to Medium Normal -- sorry but the "sky is not falling".

Title back to the more appropriate for this issue which is need for refactoring
the handling of Lang Packs on OSX.

bug 93331 is the issue with Lang Packs installation as currently implemented

The Workaround as published to 5.0 release notes, and incrementals, remains
valid.

Install LO package onto OSX -> Run it once -> Install the lang pack.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #18 from barefootguru  ---
While I don't have any stats on the number of people affected by this, I think
the current system is unacceptable and user hostile:

- you shouldn't have to download 2 things to install LO.  Almost no other Mac
app has this requirement

- running the 2 apps in the wrong order results in a broken LO installation. 
Obscure web pages are a pathetic user-unfriendly mitigation.

LO needs a single installer or drag-and-drop install, like almost every other
Mac app.

As for the suggested workaround @Foote, you missed a few steps:

1. Download LO
2. Find and download desired language pack
3. Find and read obscure web page, so you don't break your install
4. Install and run LO, immediately quit it
5. Install language pack
6. Run LO and switch to desired language
7. Restart LO so language change takes effect

Repeat every time there's a new release.

It should be:

1. Download LO
2. Install LO
3. Run LO (LO remembers your language preference)

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #18 from barefootguru  ---
While I don't have any stats on the number of people affected by this, I think
the current system is unacceptable and user hostile:

- you shouldn't have to download 2 things to install LO.  Almost no other Mac
app has this requirement

- running the 2 apps in the wrong order results in a broken LO installation. 
Obscure web pages are a pathetic user-unfriendly mitigation.

LO needs a single installer or drag-and-drop install, like almost every other
Mac app.

As for the suggested workaround @Foote, you missed a few steps:

1. Download LO
2. Find and download desired language pack
3. Find and read obscure web page, so you don't break your install
4. Install and run LO, immediately quit it
5. Install language pack
6. Run LO and switch to desired language
7. Restart LO so language change takes effect

Repeat every time there's a new release.

It should be:

1. Download LO
2. Install LO
3. Run LO (LO remembers your language preference)

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #20 from Frank Fuchs  ---
Stuart:

I beg to differ as a really long time StarOffice/OOo/LO user - and MAC user
since 3 years:
The problem is even worse than barefootguru described: Because the language
packs are not signed, you have open the language pack (the one within the .dmg)
with a "right click" and then acknowledge installing from an unsigned
installation package - something Apple warns you not to do.
If you look at all these steps needed, I'm fairly sure a "normal" (i.e. non-IT)
user will have major difficulties and likely fail w/o IT support.

My 2 cents:
I think the LO team needs to accept that support for a specific platform like
OSX requires a "minimum" of platform specific support - and this starts with a
user-friendly and secure way to install the application in line with the
operating system's guidelines.
And: If I look at the Windows version of LO, it certainly uses a lot of
Windows-specific installation magic (e.g. the registry) to ensure proper
installation.

My recommendation:
If the LO team is unsure about the best "long-term" solution, a "quick fix"
needs to be provided, soon. I believe an easy one is to provide exactly one
single *signed* package (including all the language files). While this requires
somewhat more space on your permanent storage device, I'm firmly convinced that
this is the lesser evil (esp. taking into account current storage medium
prices). That'll give everyone enough time to work on a more intelligent
installation process (maybe like the one on Windows where you select what parts
of LO and which languages you want to install).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #20 from Frank Fuchs  ---
Stuart:

I beg to differ as a really long time StarOffice/OOo/LO user - and MAC user
since 3 years:
The problem is even worse than barefootguru described: Because the language
packs are not signed, you have open the language pack (the one within the .dmg)
with a "right click" and then acknowledge installing from an unsigned
installation package - something Apple warns you not to do.
If you look at all these steps needed, I'm fairly sure a "normal" (i.e. non-IT)
user will have major difficulties and likely fail w/o IT support.

My 2 cents:
I think the LO team needs to accept that support for a specific platform like
OSX requires a "minimum" of platform specific support - and this starts with a
user-friendly and secure way to install the application in line with the
operating system's guidelines.
And: If I look at the Windows version of LO, it certainly uses a lot of
Windows-specific installation magic (e.g. the registry) to ensure proper
installation.

My recommendation:
If the LO team is unsure about the best "long-term" solution, a "quick fix"
needs to be provided, soon. I believe an easy one is to provide exactly one
single *signed* package (including all the language files). While this requires
somewhat more space on your permanent storage device, I'm firmly convinced that
this is the lesser evil (esp. taking into account current storage medium
prices). That'll give everyone enough time to work on a more intelligent
installation process (maybe like the one on Windows where you select what parts
of LO and which languages you want to install).

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #22 from Frank Fuchs  ---
Tor:

that can't be bypassed. Mac OSX simply reports this app as "broken". You do not
get a prompt where you could choose to accept running an unsigned app.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #22 from Frank Fuchs  ---
Tor:

that can't be bypassed. Mac OSX simply reports this app as "broken". You do not
get a prompt where you could choose to accept running an unsigned app.

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #23 from Tor Lillqvist  ---
Not even right-click and "Open"?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #21 from Tor Lillqvist  ---
But if the user has to know how to bypass Gatekeeper when running a langpack
installer, can't she then also bypass Gatekeeper when running LibreOffice that
has been "broken" by the langpack? Or is that "brokenness" so several that it
can't be bypassed?

Anyway, see comment #14.

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #21 from Tor Lillqvist  ---
But if the user has to know how to bypass Gatekeeper when running a langpack
installer, can't she then also bypass Gatekeeper when running LibreOffice that
has been "broken" by the langpack? Or is that "brokenness" so several that it
can't be bypassed?

Anyway, see comment #14.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #24 from Frank Fuchs  ---
Nope.
If you install a language pack before running a freshly installed LO at least
once, all you can do is move the installed LO app to the trash. Afterwards, a
new install is possible.

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #24 from Frank Fuchs  ---
Nope.
If you install a language pack before running a freshly installed LO at least
once, all you can do is move the installed LO app to the trash. Afterwards, a
new install is possible.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #23 from Tor Lillqvist  ---
Not even right-click and "Open"?

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[Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #19 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to barefootguru from comment #18)

> LO needs a single installer or drag-and-drop install, like almost every
> other Mac app.
> 

Hence this Installation/UX issue gathering rational designs for what can
reasonably be implemented in our cross platform code base.

Until resolved--the OS X users simply have to be a bit more adult about
managing the software they install on their systems, acknowledging a
LibreOffice limitation in meeting Apples changed Gatekeeper packaging
practices.

Sorry, but the release note comment should be adequate for anyone.  But, if
more detailed steps are needed--feel free to post steps to Wiki--and we'll link
to it.

Stuart

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89657] The lang-pack installation mechanism on OSX unacceptable -- needs refactoring for better installation UX

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89657

--- Comment #19 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to barefootguru from comment #18)

> LO needs a single installer or drag-and-drop install, like almost every
> other Mac app.
> 

Hence this Installation/UX issue gathering rational designs for what can
reasonably be implemented in our cross platform code base.

Until resolved--the OS X users simply have to be a bit more adult about
managing the software they install on their systems, acknowledging a
LibreOffice limitation in meeting Apples changed Gatekeeper packaging
practices.

Sorry, but the release note comment should be adequate for anyone.  But, if
more detailed steps are needed--feel free to post steps to Wiki--and we'll link
to it.

Stuart

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You are the assignee for the bug.
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