Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
Rob Snelders píše v Út 22. 11. 2011 v 20:12 +0100: No those days aren't the only way to test. But it is a way to get more people to test the software and to test the software in ways that the developers won't think about. I think there are enough people that want to help but don't know how, and testing is a easy way to step in. At last I also hear from people around me that LO tests way to little because of all the bugs that have pleaged the 3.4-series. When we shout this around people can see we do test and are doing our best to get bugs out of the software. All in all I would say it is needed to organise these events.. I fully agree. I was just a bit scared by Cor's mail. It made me feel that Janury 21 would be the only day when people should test LO-3.5. I am happy to hear that it is not true. :-) Thanks for explanation. Best Regards, Petr ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
Hi Petr, Petr Mladek wrote (23-11-11 10:28) All in all I would say it is needed to organise these events.. I fully agree. I was just a bit scared by Cor's mail. It made me feel that Janury 21 would be the only day when people should test LO-3.5. I am happy to hear that it is not true. :-) Indeed. But it seems you missed my mail from Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:59:09 +0100 :-) http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2011-November/000476.html I've just posted to TDF discuss list to get some more people interested. I mean: not so difficult to invite people at l10n lists and sit on irc, but maybe more is possible/needed... Cheers, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
Cor Nouws píše v So 19. 11. 2011 v 16:56 +0100: Cor Nouws wrote (13-11-11 21:20) Rainer Bielefeld wrote (11-11-11 20:06) https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Improving_QA-Release-3.5 I'm afraid Try to get more testers doing the testing earlier will be the critical/limiting condition. [...] The idea here is the following: When a beta is announced, many people jump in to test. Now it would be great if we could attract (part of) that group to start working with the developer builds asap after feature freeze! (Arrows #1 on slide 23) Would that make sense? So, while at our 4th Dutch LibreOffice (Hackers) event, we discussed this. Since in The Netherlands we have both a busy Sinterklaas fest and a long Christmas time, and we are already in the end of November, there is little change in organising a successful test-event in December, Anyway not for us. A test-event, was one of the ideas from the presentation (1), slide #24 So we think about January 21, convenient for all involved here. But looking at the release plan, that is just after the RC1 for 3.5.0. Which is sad, because the goal is to get more people test early, thus after the first/second build after feature freeze... - Would it be an idea to work parallel in some countries (France, Germany)...? - January 21 is a possibility.. - But another moment earlier too, so that some of us (Nl/Flanders) could join virtual? Heh, the first beta should be available on December 9. I hope that we could do lots testing already in December. We should not need an exact date to do some testing. We are improving the Limus server [1] and fill reasonable test cases there. We will create test run when the beta1 is available. Anyone could jump in and process few tests when time permits. The server will clearly show what was tested, what still needs testing. Testers could work completely independently. Organized events are fine but it can be done other way. We do not need to depend on them. IMPORTANT: We are looking for people creating test cases[2]. Reference: [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Litmus https://tcm.documentfoundation.org/ [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Test_Case Best Regards, Petr ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
No those days aren't the only way to test. But it is a way to get more people to test the software and to test the software in ways that the developers won't think about. I think there are enough people that want to help but don't know how, and testing is a easy way to step in. At last I also hear from people around me that LO tests way to little because of all the bugs that have pleaged the 3.4-series. When we shout this around people can see we do test and are doing our best to get bugs out of the software. All in all I would say it is needed to organise these events.. Greetings, Rob Snelders On di 22 nov 2011 20:03:33 CET, Petr Mladek wrote: Cor Nouws píše v So 19. 11. 2011 v 16:56 +0100: Cor Nouws wrote (13-11-11 21:20) Rainer Bielefeld wrote (11-11-11 20:06) https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Improving_QA-Release-3.5 I'm afraid Try to get more testers doing the testing earlier will be the critical/limiting condition. [...] The idea here is the following: When a beta is announced, many people jump in to test. Now it would be great if we could attract (part of) that group to start working with the developer builds asap after feature freeze! (Arrows #1 on slide 23) Would that make sense? So, while at our 4th Dutch LibreOffice (Hackers) event, we discussed this. Since in The Netherlands we have both a busy Sinterklaas fest and a long Christmas time, and we are already in the end of November, there is little change in organising a successful test-event in December, Anyway not for us. A test-event, was one of the ideas from the presentation (1), slide #24 So we think about January 21, convenient for all involved here. But looking at the release plan, that is just after the RC1 for 3.5.0. Which is sad, because the goal is to get more people test early, thus after the first/second build after feature freeze... - Would it be an idea to work parallel in some countries (France, Germany)...? - January 21 is a possibility.. - But another moment earlier too, so that some of us (Nl/Flanders) could join virtual? Heh, the first beta should be available on December 9. I hope that we could do lots testing already in December. We should not need an exact date to do some testing. We are improving the Limus server [1] and fill reasonable test cases there. We will create test run when the beta1 is available. Anyone could jump in and process few tests when time permits. The server will clearly show what was tested, what still needs testing. Testers could work completely independently. Organized events are fine but it can be done other way. We do not need to depend on them. IMPORTANT: We are looking for people creating test cases[2]. Reference: [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Litmus https://tcm.documentfoundation.org/ [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Test_Case Best Regards, Petr ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
Cor Nouws wrote (13-11-11 21:20) Rainer Bielefeld wrote (11-11-11 20:06) https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Improving_QA-Release-3.5 I'm afraid Try to get more testers doing the testing earlier will be the critical/limiting condition. [...] You are perfectly right there! (This information was contained in the slides that I did not include in the version linked from that wiki :-\ ) The idea here is the following: When a beta is announced, many people jump in to test. Now it would be great if we could attract (part of) that group to start working with the developer builds asap after feature freeze! (Arrows #1 on slide 23) Would that make sense? So, while at our 4th Dutch LibreOffice (Hackers) event, we discussed this. Since in The Netherlands we have both a busy Sinterklaas fest and a long Christmas time, and we are already in the end of November, there is little change in organising a successful test-event in December, Anyway not for us. A test-event, was one of the ideas from the presentation (1), slide #24 So we think about January 21, convenient for all involved here. But looking at the release plan, that is just after the RC1 for 3.5.0. Which is sad, because the goal is to get more people test early, thus after the first/second build after feature freeze... - Would it be an idea to work parallel in some countries (France, Germany)...? - January 21 is a possibility.. - But another moment earlier too, so that some of us (Nl/Flanders) could join virtual? What do you think? Cheers, Cor 1) http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Liboconf2011_improving_qa_release_cycle-cornouws_Slides19-28.pdf -- Prima office software - niet duur, wél vrij ?! http://www.nieuwsteoffice.nl/ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ~ _ ~ _ ~ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
On 16/11/11 19:59, Petr Mladek wrote: I am surprised that anyone still uses it. The following two bugs makes me feel that it does not work for LO-3.4 and master: testtool should work ( afaik ) on 3.4 ( I thought I fixed it there ), of course there may be some tests that somehow now don't work due to some other error or maintenance creep. On Master it is still broken, some effort is needed to make it work, I don't believe the effort is worth it AFAIK, developers does not like it. My understanding of the problems is summarized at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Using_Testtool#IMPORTANT:_Obsoleted_by_Unit_tests_and_Subsequenttests +1 ;-) Noel ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
Is it worth salvaging the tests? Sorry for being so pushy about this topic but I would be super happy to have the basic module contain only language-related functionality :) August Sodora aug...@gmail.com (201) 280-8138 On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:19 AM, Noel Power nopo...@suse.com wrote: On 16/11/11 19:59, Petr Mladek wrote: I am surprised that anyone still uses it. The following two bugs makes me feel that it does not work for LO-3.4 and master: testtool should work ( afaik ) on 3.4 ( I thought I fixed it there ), of course there may be some tests that somehow now don't work due to some other error or maintenance creep. On Master it is still broken, some effort is needed to make it work, I don't believe the effort is worth it AFAIK, developers does not like it. My understanding of the problems is summarized at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Using_Testtool#IMPORTANT:_Obsoleted_by_Unit_tests_and_Subsequenttests +1 ;-) Noel ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
Cor Nouws píše v Pá 11. 11. 2011 v 17:40 +0100: Hi, As a result of the discussions, the presentation, at the LibOCon, here are the conclusions. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Improving_QA-Release-3.5 and the places where people can comment and show commitment. What do you think? Some of the things are already in progress: + we are cleaning up QA wiki pages [1] + there is long discussion on the QA mailing list [2] about how to organize testing in Litmus [3] + we decided to update the schedule for 3.5.0 [4]: + add beta0 before one week feature freeze + do only beta1, beta2, beta3 with two weeks cadence Reference: [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA [2] libreoffice...@lists.freedesktop.org [3] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2011-November/thread.html [4] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-November/020724.html Best Regards, Petr ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
I asked this once on IRC but it seems to me that some people are actually using the testtool so I figured I'd ask again to a broader audience. Is there any interest in maintaining/cleaning up the testtool? If not is there a way that those tests can be rewritten to work in one of the other test suites? August Sodora aug...@gmail.com (201) 280-8138 On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Petr Mladek pmla...@suse.cz wrote: Cor Nouws píše v Pá 11. 11. 2011 v 17:40 +0100: Hi, As a result of the discussions, the presentation, at the LibOCon, here are the conclusions. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Improving_QA-Release-3.5 and the places where people can comment and show commitment. What do you think? Some of the things are already in progress: + we are cleaning up QA wiki pages [1] + there is long discussion on the QA mailing list [2] about how to organize testing in Litmus [3] + we decided to update the schedule for 3.5.0 [4]: + add beta0 before one week feature freeze + do only beta1, beta2, beta3 with two weeks cadence Reference: [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA [2] libreoffice...@lists.freedesktop.org [3] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2011-November/thread.html [4] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2011-November/020724.html Best Regards, Petr ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
August Sodora píše v St 16. 11. 2011 v 14:43 -0500: I asked this once on IRC but it seems to me that some people are actually using the testtool so I figured I'd ask again to a broader audience. Is there any interest in maintaining/cleaning up the testtool? If not is there a way that those tests can be rewritten to work in one of the other test suites? I am surprised that anyone still uses it. The following two bugs makes me feel that it does not work for LO-3.4 and master: + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37059 + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37566 AFAIK, developers does not like it. My understanding of the problems is summarized at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Using_Testtool#IMPORTANT:_Obsoleted_by_Unit_tests_and_Subsequenttests AFAIK, developers prefer unit tests and subsequent tests, see http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Automated_Tests Best Regards, Petr ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
+ https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37059 This bug is a WORKSFORME, I can run the testtool and some tests no problem with it. I'll see what I can learn about migrating the old set of tests. August Sodora aug...@gmail.com (201) 280-8138 On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Petr Mladek pmla...@suse.cz wrote: August Sodora píše v St 16. 11. 2011 v 14:43 -0500: I asked this once on IRC but it seems to me that some people are actually using the testtool so I figured I'd ask again to a broader audience. Is there any interest in maintaining/cleaning up the testtool? If not is there a way that those tests can be rewritten to work in one of the other test suites? I am surprised that anyone still uses it. The following two bugs makes me feel that it does not work for LO-3.4 and master: + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37059 + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37566 AFAIK, developers does not like it. My understanding of the problems is summarized at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Using_Testtool#IMPORTANT:_Obsoleted_by_Unit_tests_and_Subsequenttests AFAIK, developers prefer unit tests and subsequent tests, see http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Automated_Tests Best Regards, Petr ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] [Libreoffice-qa] Improving the QA and Release for 3.5
Hi Rainer, Rainer Bielefeld wrote (11-11-11 20:06) I'm afraid Try to get more testers doing the testing earlier will be the critical/limiting condition. [...] You are perfectly right there! (This information was contained in the slides that I did not include in the version linked from that wiki :-\ ) The idea here is the following: When a beta is announced, many people jump in to test. Now it would be great if we could attract (part of) that group to start working with the developer builds asap after feature freeze! (Arrows #1 on slide 23) Would that make sense? Try faster fixing of issues in master Is the current proceeding, nearby all Bugs I see get their fix in the Master and if possible a cherrypick to the stable branch. A great news. When I did my analyses, it was only about 50% (slide #20) Cheers, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
