Re: [Libreoffice] IAccessible2 - Windows (from libreoffice-accessibility)
Am 27.09.2011 17:14, schrieb Fridrich Strba: On 27/09/11 16:41, Michael Meeks wrote: It is very useful for archiving understanding on the off chance that IBM don't meet their commitment to do the right thing and get this into Apache in a form that we can easily consume. At ODF PlugFest in Berlin this July, IBM's Rob Weir announced that although they will make that code public, they will not do the AOOo integration of that code. Nevertheless they would support/advise anybody who would try to do such an integration. You must have misunderstood Robert Weir (it's quite easy to do so ;-)). Here's a recent quote from the AOOo dev list: Accessibility is something IBM has taken very seriously with Symphony, as with our other products. We've worked with standards bodies, assistive technology vendors and others to advance the state of accessibility in this area. We'd love to see this same support in OOo and LO and in every other derivative product. That is why we contributed the code to OOo several years ago. Of course, integrating this into the current AOOo (or LO) trunk is non-trivial. IMHO, we're unlikely to integrate IAccessible2 for AOOo 3.4.0. But it is something we should look at for the next major release. As mentioned elsewhere, we have good IAccessible2 support in Symphony today. And we've already announced that we will be contributing the Symphony source code to Apache. Something we'll need to figure out is the least complicated way to merge IAccessible2 support, as well as other desired UI and other enhancements from Symphony, into future Apache releases. Though he talks about the next major release, I'm pretty sure that if both communities (LO as well as AOOo) show huge interest to get it integrated ASAP after the AOOo 3.4 release, there should be ways to make that a priority. Of course Robert Weir won't do that integration himself ;-), but most probably one of the new IBM ex-Oracle devs that now work on AOOo. Or somebody else, in case there would be someone who can't wait to get it earlier than 3.4. AFAIK the heavy lifting already was done and the code is available in some cws. That's as close as it can become for an integration into Libre Office. I doubt that pulling from AOOo's svn would be easier than pulling from some hg cws. If you are interested in getting that integrated into LO and especially if you want to get it integrated as soon and as smooth as possible, some cooperation might make that easier. Regards, Mathias ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
[Libreoffice] IAccessible2 - Windows (from libreoffice-accessibility)
Hi, For those of you who are interested in the accessibility of LibreOffice (and OpenOffice.org) on Windows - i.e. replacing the Java Accessibility API with IAccessible2 - , I am forwarding a message that Malte Timmermann sent to the LibreOffice Accessibility list. It appears that the code is still only available in CWSes: http://hg.services.openoffice.org/. Malte Timmermann's message describes in what order the code from the CWSes was meant to be integrated. This is relevant to feature request/bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39956. Best regards, Christophe Delivered-To: global.libreoffice.org--accessibil...@bilbo.documentfoundation.org Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 10:32:38 +0200 From: Malte Timmermann malte_timmerm...@gmx.com To: accessibil...@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Re: OpenOffice.org code on Apache: IAccessible2 ? Archived-At: http://go.mail-archive.com/HCe2Qs3e9rxv6IRhaZd3IY2aqm0= Michael Stahl and Dennis Hamilton are right wrt IA2 CWSes listed below. accfixes2 is ready for QA, but was intended to be integrated _after_ 3.4 just to make sure we don't break Accessibility on some other platform short before the release. But feel free to integrate, and do some testing on Windows, GNOME and Mac. It will not introduce any IA2 stuff. accia2bridge is not critical to integrate, as this is Windows-only (UAA IA2 bridge) and can't break anything on other platforms. But it will remove the Java Accessibility stuff on Windows, so better do this as the last step. accfixes3 was intended to be the last CWS with IA2 stuff. All remaining changes where in accstuff, and my plan was to migrate (adapted) changes from accstuff to accfixes3, or delete not wanted stuff in accstuff, and never integrate accstuff itself. Unfortunately somebody already did it the other way round and moved a larger, not reviewed chunk of code from accstuff from accfixes3 (276449:e44059869aa9). accstuff (+accfixes3 with 276449:e44059869aa9) still contains changes made in a way I wouldn't integrate them in OOo, but now it's up to other people to decide whether or not to integrate stuff as it is. It's not up to me anymore to have an eye on OOo architecture. (But note that also the people responsible for the modules with remaining changes didn't want to integrate them as they are) Once stuff above is integrated, there is still some minor work missing. I might be able to help on that, but I don't plan to do the integration work for accfixes*, at least not for LibreOffice, because there will be many conflicts. Integration into AOOo should be quite smooth. For the remaining changes, I guess I would like to do it the same way like my old friend, the Pseudo Engineer and itinerant idiot ;) A little bit of poking around, hacking, and providing a patch compiled and tested only on my primary platform :) Malte. PS: I don't read the mailings lists regularly, and the accessibility list is the only one I really look into. But chances to miss something are high. If you have questions on the OOo IA2 stuff here, and I don't answer them in a timely manner, drop me a note w/o cc-ing a mailing list so it will make it to my inbox. On 09.09.2011 21:45, Michael Stahl wrote: On 02.09.2011 11:56, Christophe Strobbe wrote: Hi, The OpenOffice.org code is now available on Apache: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/source.html. Yesterday, the Apache OOo blog published an article on developer education, so the code should be ready for attempts to compile it on Linux: https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/apache_openoffice_org_developer_education. Since we have a bug on IAccessible2 at https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39956 I wanted to find out where the code relevant to IAccessible2 can be found in the repository at Apache and add some information about that to the bug. Can anybody help? (I have only browsed the repository in my web browser; I have not checked out the code from SVN.) the Apache SVN currently contains only the OOO340 head (i.e. everything that was integrated until OOO340_m1). apparently the IA2 stuff is in a not-yet-integrated CWS on the OOo HG server: http://hg.services.openoffice.org/cws/accia2bridge/ it currently looks like this (like most open CWSes) won't be integrated into ApacheOOo for quite some time, as it is not in scope for the 3.4 release, and there is unfortunately some work to do first to comply with Apache's annoying licensing policies etc. there are some more not-yet-integrated CWSes that look a11y related: http://hg.services.openoffice.org/cws/accfixes2/ http://hg.services.openoffice.org/cws/accfixes3/ http://hg.services.openoffice.org/cws/accstuff/ but i've never worked on a11y myself, so don't ask me what the status of any of this is. regards, michael -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document
Re: [Libreoffice] IAccessible2 - Windows (from libreoffice-accessibility)
Hi Christophe, Thanks for forwarding this. On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 10:50 +0200, Christophe Strobbe wrote: It appears that the code is still only available in CWSes: http://hg.services.openoffice.org/. Malte Timmermann's message describes in what order the code from the CWSes was meant to be integrated. It is very useful for archiving understanding on the off chance that IBM don't meet their commitment to do the right thing and get this into Apache in a form that we can easily consume. The real question is - should we spend time continuing the (nice) work that Malte started, when we know that IBM have this done working in-house, and have committed to release it at some stage. AFAICS that is still not a great use of developer time, though we can help support a volunteer that wants to that I guess. It has the potential to make merging IBM's re-worked version of what they publicly released before even more painful though - so in fact this could potentially waste developer time twice. Ideally we'd have a commitment from whomever did the merging that they would then help unwind the consequences / merge the delta to IBM's work later. IMHO the best outcome is still for IBM to live up to their public commitments and release the IAcc2 integration code, and for us to merge it as/when that is done. As/when/until they do them - I suspect this space will stay as sterile - for which IBM bear a large responsibility. Then again - it is a really nice feature that would be great to have, not least due to it dropping a Java dependency. Anyhow, that's my take, sorry if that's not the answer you want. HTH, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] IAccessible2 - Windows (from libreoffice-accessibility)
On 27/09/11 16:41, Michael Meeks wrote: It is very useful for archiving understanding on the off chance that IBM don't meet their commitment to do the right thing and get this into Apache in a form that we can easily consume. At ODF PlugFest in Berlin this July, IBM's Rob Weir announced that although they will make that code public, they will not do the AOOo integration of that code. Nevertheless they would support/advise anybody who would try to do such an integration. I will not give here my interpretation of that statement, but it might be enough information for the wise. Cheers Fridrich ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] IAccessible2 - Windows (from libreoffice-accessibility)
Hi Michael, At 16:41 27-9-2011, Michael Meeks wrote: Hi Christophe, Thanks for forwarding this. On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 10:50 +0200, Christophe Strobbe wrote: It appears that the code is still only available in CWSes: http://hg.services.openoffice.org/. Malte Timmermann's message describes in what order the code from the CWSes was meant to be integrated. It is very useful for archiving understanding on the off chance that IBM don't meet their commitment to do the right thing and get this into Apache in a form that we can easily consume. The real question is - should we spend time continuing the (nice) work that Malte started, when we know that IBM have this done working in-house, and have committed to release it at some stage. I apologise in advance if I sound repetitive... My understanding was that IBM donated IAccessible2 code based on an OpenOffice.org version that was outdated by the time of their donation, and that Malte Timmermann was working on integrating the code when Oracle decided to give OOo to the community. As far as I know, what IBM has done working in-house and promised to release is Lotus Symphony code, i.e. with an SWT-based UI. SWT does not expose accessibility info through the Java Accessibility API but through the accessibility API of the target desktop operating system (at least Eclipse does that [1]). (Continued below...) AFAICS that is still not a great use of developer time, though we can help support a volunteer that wants to that I guess. It has the potential to make merging IBM's re-worked version of what they publicly released before even more painful though - so in fact this could potentially waste developer time twice. Ideally we'd have a commitment from whomever did the merging that they would then help unwind the consequences / merge the delta to IBM's work later. IMHO the best outcome is still for IBM to live up to their public commitments and release the IAcc2 integration code, and for us to merge it as/when that is done. As/when/until they do them - I suspect this space will stay as sterile - for which IBM bear a large responsibility. If IBM plans to release Lotus Symphony code that already supports IAccessible2, I have very little hope that they will first integrate the CWSes with IAccessible2 code into the current trunk of OpenOffice.org (see also Fridrich Strba's message). So I think that waiting for IAccessible2 will come down to waiting for the Lotus Symphony donation. LibreOffice would then have the choice between using the CWSes or integrating the UI from Lotus Symphony. Then again - it is a really nice feature that would be great to have, not least due to it dropping a Java dependency. Anyhow, that's my take, sorry if that's not the answer you want. [1] See http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rational/library/dec05/pilgrim/ and http://www.eclipse.org/articles/article.php?file=Article-Accessibility351/index.html. Best regards, Christophe HTH, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Christophe Strobbe K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD Research Group on Document Architectures Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee BELGIUM tel: +32 16 32 85 51 http://www.docarch.be/ Twitter: @RabelaisA11y --- Open source for accessibility: results from the AEGIS project www.aegis-project.eu --- Please don't invite me to Facebook, Quechup or other social networks. You may have agreed to their privacy policy, but I haven't. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] IAccessible2 - Windows (from libreoffice-accessibility)
Hi Christophe Fridrich, On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 17:51 +0200, Christophe Strobbe wrote: My understanding was that IBM donated IAccessible2 code based on an OpenOffice.org version that was outdated by the time of their .. As far as I know, what IBM has done working in-house and promised to release is Lotus Symphony code, i.e. with an SWT-based UI. SWT SWT is only a small part of the picture. Last I looked at Symphony it had substantial chunks of OO.o UI left for advanced dialos, and clearly for all the in-document a11y it will need to bridge to the native UNO a11y impl. So - I think the SWT angle is a bit of a red-herring. The same bridge code will still be needed, independent of the choice of toolkit for the wrapper shell around it. LibreOffice would then have the choice between using the CWSes or integrating the UI from Lotus Symphony. So - I don't think this is accurate. On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 17:14 +0200, Fridrich Strba wrote: At ODF PlugFest in Berlin this July, IBM's Rob Weir announced that although they will make that code public, they will not do the AOOo integration of that code. I suspect times changes - IBM recently hired a handful of people to do this integration work - hdu just announced himself on their list (eg.) I will not give here my interpretation of that statement, but it might be enough information for the wise. Thanks ;-) Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
