Re: [Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
Hi Bryan, On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 00:06 -0500, Bryan Quigley wrote: I'd like to get opinions (and preferably consensus) on removing old Microsoft formats save as support, specifically: Word 6.0 Word 95 Excel 5.0 Excel 95 I would be all for it too... it's even an easy hack you could achieve. Regards, -- Cédric Bosdonnat LibreOffice hacker http://documentfoundation.org OOo Eclipse Integration developer http://cedric.bosdonnat.free.fr ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
2011/2/2 Cedric Bosdonnat cedric.bosdonnat@free.fr: Hi Bryan, On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 00:06 -0500, Bryan Quigley wrote: I'd like to get opinions (and preferably consensus) on removing old Microsoft formats save as support, specifically: Word 6.0 Word 95 Excel 5.0 Excel 95 I would be all for it too... it's even an easy hack you could achieve. Excel 5.0 format is still in use for data exchange in Hungarian organizations. I helped to work-around http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=32785 a few months ago. Please keep old Excel formats for a while. IMHO old Word formats are obsolete. Cheers, Andras ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 06:30 +0100, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: So, Does anyone still need to save in an extremely old version of Word or Excel? Or can we get rid of it? I agree : for very old closed formats, LibO should have only import filters. Removing save support for MSWord 6/'95 disturbs me somewhat, being able to save as that old .doc format is handy for me to perturb MSOffice to flush out problems in those binary formats. Maybe I'm just emotionally attached to it to see it removed. I take the point about people saving as 6/95 because they want a something that will definitely work in MSOffice, what about just rearranging the save format list so that it appears way down at the bottom or something. C. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
At 12:06am -0500 Wed, 02 Feb 2011, Bryan Quigley wrote: [ Should we remove export capabilities to old file formats? ] The usability problem I've seen is that users: * want to save in MS Word format, but don't know what version to use * the pick 6.0 or 95 thinking many different things (lower number means it will work with more computers?) * since this is there only copy of the file, they lose all tables and more I think you've made a good point. However, I don't think removing the Save As support should be decided from a usability perspective, as I can envision certain workflows that require interaction between older versions of MS Word. I think the longer-term and better solution is to rework the logic such that it's not a binary decision of Lose info? or save in ODF format? See below ... We currently have the same This document may contain formatting or content that can not be saved in... message for if you are saving to Word 97/2000/XP (very good at saving) or Word 6.0 (very bad at saving). This message and associated logic needs updating. Specifically, my user's understanding is that if the file is not to be saved as an ODF file (odt, ods, od, etc.), then LO shows that warning. This binary thinking is indicative of a younger project, and I submit that this is one area in which LO could show more prudence and maturity. Instead -- and I don't know how possible this currently is -- I think we should introspect the document and compare against the chosen file format's capabilities to list specific features that will be lost. - You are attempting to save this document to a Word 6.0 format. Word 6.0 does not support this feature that this document uses: * Tables If you save in this file format, the parts of this document using this feature will be lost. [ Lose document pieces ] [ Choose alternate format ] - Showing specifically what would be lost would be much more helpful, only bugs the user when appropriate, and does not wrongly presume in the button text that ODF format is the only format capable. I also do not think customizing this text to make it more specific will help. Users have become trained by the interface to ignore this message (this is a different usability issue, NOT a user issue). I do not agree unless updating the text is all that is on the table. Specifically, if all the features in use that are supported by the file format, then we should not display that dialog. Kevin ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 09:14 -0500, Kevin Hunter wrote: Instead -- and I don't know how possible this currently is -- I think we should introspect the document and compare against the chosen file format's capabilities to list specific features that will be lost. Hard to do, there *is* some ultra-basic and probably abandoned logging stuff which could be converted to that, e.g. sw::log::Tracer, but it would be a lot of effort to categorize and organize the filters to give correct and useful results. And in a lot of cases actually implementing the missing bits would be easier than logging the failure :-) in the cases where the problem is not inherent in the capabilities of the output/input format. C. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
Hi, My question is what we will win if we remove. Personally I prefer to keep support for such formats. KAMI 2011-02-02 10:18 keltezéssel, Cedric Bosdonnat írta: Hi Bryan, On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 00:06 -0500, Bryan Quigley wrote: I'd like to get opinions (and preferably consensus) on removing old Microsoft formats save as support, specifically: Word 6.0 Word 95 Excel 5.0 Excel 95 I would be all for it too... it's even an easy hack you could achieve. Regards, signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
At 12:06am -0500 Wed, 02 Feb 2011, Bryan Quigley wrote: I believe the old binary StarOffice file save as support is going away soon as well. Perhaps tangentially (or not at all related), does anyone know if any of the plugins rely on particular file format export capabilities? Specifically, I just read this from three days ago, and noted a reference to the StarBasic engine and Anaphraseus: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37918 I don't use many extensions, but I understand that they're a core part of many users' workflows. Is StarBasic engine a different beast from the various StarOffice export/import filters? Kevin ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/02/2011 05:06 AM, Bryan Quigley wrote: I'd like to get opinions (and preferably consensus) on removing old Microsoft formats save as support, specifically: Word 6.0 Word 95 Excel 5.0 Excel 95 One of the virtues of OOo, and LibO, was the number of file formats that it can read from, and write to. Can that code be rewritten to Export As? Alternatively, can that code be rewritten as a user-installable extension? IOW, retain the ability of LibO to read/write those file formats. If the only way to have that functionality is thru an extension, then so be it. (Those file formats can join DAISY, Braille, and umpteen other file formats that LibO can either read from, or write to, only by using a user-installed extension.) jonathon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNSaY6AAoJEERA7YuLpVrVeooIANtYAk2XYbm+KBaFcQSzXH/8 AAfRiJr2xo+kUFjcXL4CybBS5m5MqGJ7GQ0FSpcGOIu8SrU00elDtzkeyaVi+unI mAXm7cGVduTIgNKVAC5tDtqTvg/KYEi5XvCtQFzbTASUYySQ9trIXouMSKlBQCPJ KQbpfu5Ubbv3zCE3l1ypaCcxMb20UA3ctsQqknbnqAFhtvw6J93hUaGFwRZ0YAq9 oscROH5j4AGNgo79jGZFZgFwMnbPK9YPAGh6yE5mSiIjWqJaU6gOhlKZpmu7ZFEh GAR7/XjyRSK6PBrL7l5TAm7ZZm9G+fVuSagAkYvevJmFqknjB+o0pM0JqQQasQU= =S8fU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
I think jonathon-4's suggestion is brilliant! Keep the currently used formats in the Save As (sorted please!) dialog and old cryptic formats in a Export to option. This way no formats are lost but functionality is increased. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Remove-old-Word-6-0-95-save-as-support-tp2403218p2408005.html Sent from the Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
[Libreoffice] Remove old Word 6.0/95 save as support
Hi all, I'd like to get opinions (and preferably consensus) on removing old Microsoft formats save as support, specifically: Word 6.0 Word 95 Excel 5.0 Excel 95 The usability problem I've seen is that users: * want to save in MS Word format, but don't know what version to use * the pick 6.0 or 95 thinking many different things (lower number means it will work with more computers?) * since this is there only copy of the file, they lose all tables and more We currently have the same This document may contain formatting or content that can not be saved in... message for if you are saving to Word 97/2000/XP (very good at saving) or Word 6.0 (very bad at saving). I also do not think customizing this text to make it more specific will help. Users have become trained by the interface to ignore this message (this is a different usability issue, NOT a user issue). I believe the old binary StarOffice file save as support is going away soon as well. So, Does anyone still need to save in an extremely old version of Word or Excel? Or can we get rid of it? Thanks! Bryan P.S. Please copy me on any replies. P.S.S. I've previously reported this as a bug against OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=107711). Should I report it against LibreOffice as well? ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
