Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal
Hi, On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 06:42:42PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2012-10-06 17:20, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit : On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 04:26:18PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: No sure if we were talking about empty hall, I am hoping to help fill them. :-) Yes, just like a night club opening with fewer floors in the early evening, so that they are not that empty -- and open more floors later. ;) Sorry, doesn't work for me. If the place is too full with noise, I can't hear myself think and I go elsewhere where people like me congregate ... in this case the AOO forums. _If_ the place is too full with noise, we will quickly be able to split out forums. My suggestion is just not to do that earlier. ;) Do you think we will have some 3-5 regulars in a templates forum? If not, I would postpone separating those out until such a group condesates and asks for it. Well, I would rather give it a try, we do have a template site that we should be supporting with a forums. This would give us a chance to get more traction right from the start. I dont believe that a separate forum gives you more traction, if you do not have 3-5 regulars in it -- rather the opposite. As both closing forums and underpopulated/abandoned forums are demotivational and unhelpful, I am stand by my opinion that not having one at the start is better. Once 3-5 regulars for that topic are around and ask for it, we can add that forum -- which is motivating as it suggests growth and gives the forum a better kickstart (esp. since we can make an announcement for the start of that forum on its own then). All in all I can't say I agree on your approach to forums. You seem to expect the brunt of all activity on a forums to come from the participants. More of a let's wait for them to come approach. Hence, the lets start with few categories and break out later. This is more of a passive approach to running a forums I, however, think that a good categorization of a forums will have a better appeal to our users and with good moderation will fill. I also think that we should not only moderate, but also create buzz on our forums. Moderators are not only there to help direct traffic (un-obtrusively) but also create buzz and discussion. If moderators sign up for the job, then they should commit to grow their forums and make them attractive for user appeal. If a forum has become silent, then it would be up to the forums admins to sit and determine the actions to market and help popularize it. This is more of an aggressive approach to growing a forums. You currently have 5 forum coordinators, which is a very good size to start off (a bigger group will only lead to more communication overhead). If you want to actively vitalize the forums, you should not start with much more than ~2 forums per coordinator, otherwise you stretch yourself too thin. As you grow the team, win more regulars, admins and coordinators, you can easily add categories. You will do anyway -- no matter what initial categorization you setup. Thus the _initial_ categorization is important to be optimized to generate growth in the first 2-3 month, it should not be the 'final' or 'perfect' categorization for a huge board system (because the first is the precondition for the second). You should also make sure to empower those joining you as forum regulars and coordinators and there is no easier way to archive that than by letting them take part of the growth by creating 'their' additional forum. Linus Torvalds said on 2004-10-25: Nobody should start to undertake a large project. You start with a small trivial project, and you should never expect it to get large. If you do, you'll just overdesign and generally think it is more important than it likely is at that stage. Or worse, you might be scared away by the sheer size of the work you envision. So start small, and think about the details. Don't think about some big picture and fancy design. If it doesn't solve some fairly immediate need, it's almost certainly over-designed. And don't expect people to jump in and help you. That's not how these things work. You need to get something half-way useful first, and then others will say hey, that almost works for me, and they'll get involved in the project. ^- THAT is critical advise here. We should also keep in mind that some of our long-time users are on the AOO forums being helped and the categorization there seems to work quite well. You only need to look at their numbers to realize that common sense categorization works[1] and where new forums appear these are more of a targeted and deliberate choice (as in the case of the US marketing forums, this is more of a concerted group effort from the part of the whole TDF/LibreOffice team). The best way to involve them then is to invite them to take part in the organic growth of the forums. The best way to do that, is to start with a small and minimal set of forums, be open to change and
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal
Le 2012-10-07 05:27, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit : Hi, On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 06:42:42PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: Le 2012-10-06 17:20, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit : On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 04:26:18PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: No sure if we were talking about empty hall, I am hoping to help fill them. :-) Yes, just like a night club opening with fewer floors in the early evening, so that they are not that empty -- and open more floors later. ;) Sorry, doesn't work for me. If the place is too full with noise, I can't hear myself think and I go elsewhere where people like me congregate ... in this case the AOO forums. _If_ the place is too full with noise, we will quickly be able to split out forums. My suggestion is just not to do that earlier. ;) Well, I guess we can just agree to disagree and wait for others to chime in on the discussion. If our resources allow us to do it, then I say go for it, no point driving the race car slowly on the track when you have the team and resources behind you. :-) Do you think we will have some 3-5 regulars in a templates forum? If not, I would postpone separating those out until such a group condesates and asks for it. Well, I would rather give it a try, we do have a template site that we should be supporting with a forums. This would give us a chance to get more traction right from the start. I dont believe that a separate forum gives you more traction, if you do not have 3-5 regulars in it -- rather the opposite. As both closing forums and underpopulated/abandoned forums are demotivational and unhelpful, I am stand by my opinion that not having one at the start is better. Once 3-5 regulars for that topic are around and ask for it, we can add that forum -- which is motivating as it suggests growth and gives the forum a better kickstart (esp. since we can make an announcement for the start of that forum on its own then). Well, we could have that forum already developed and easily identify the 2-3 regulars who are interested if they come. There is no problem with collapsing a forum and blending it in to another later after having given it a try. But then, again, we can agree to disagree on this as well. All in all I can't say I agree on your approach to forums. You seem to expect the brunt of all activity on a forums to come from the participants. More of a let's wait for them to come approach. Hence, the lets start with few categories and break out later. This is more of a passive approach to running a forums I, however, think that a good categorization of a forums will have a better appeal to our users and with good moderation will fill. I also think that we should not only moderate, but also create buzz on our forums. Moderators are not only there to help direct traffic (un-obtrusively) but also create buzz and discussion. If moderators sign up for the job, then they should commit to grow their forums and make them attractive for user appeal. If a forum has become silent, then it would be up to the forums admins to sit and determine the actions to market and help popularize it. This is more of an aggressive approach to growing a forums. You currently have 5 forum coordinators, which is a very good size to start off (a bigger group will only lead to more communication overhead). If you want to actively vitalize the forums, you should not start with much more than ~2 forums per coordinator, otherwise you stretch yourself too thin. We are planning on 2 per forum, we are at the categorization point now and will follow through with the search for moderators on our next step. As you grow the team, win more regulars, admins and coordinators, you can easily add categories. You will do anyway -- no matter what initial categorization you setup. Thus the _initial_ categorization is important to be optimized to generate growth in the first 2-3 month, it should not be the 'final' or 'perfect' categorization for a huge board system (because the first is the precondition for the second). You should also make sure to empower those joining you as forum regulars and coordinators and there is no easier way to archive that than by letting them take part of the growth by creating 'their' additional forum. Linus Torvalds said on 2004-10-25: Nobody should start to undertake a large project. You start with a small trivial project, and you should never expect it to get large. If you do, you'll just overdesign and generally think it is more important than it likely is at that stage. Or worse, you might be scared away by the sheer size of the work you envision. So start small, and think about the details. Don't think about some big picture and fancy design. If it doesn't solve some fairly immediate need, it's almost certainly over-designed. And don't expect people to jump in and help you. That's not how these things work. You need to get something half-way useful first, and then others will say hey, that almost works for me, and they'll get
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal
On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 04:26:18PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: No sure if we were talking about empty hall, I am hoping to help fill them. :-) Yes, just like a night club opening with fewer floors in the early evening, so that they are not that empty -- and open more floors later. ;) Not sure about this. We were given the mandate to concentrate on the US market specifically. You may have noticed that there are already few mails on the US mailing list (of which I am part), but I believe that we are set to re-buid post-LibOCon. From what I can see, the largest problem with the US is the lack of marcons for the group, which has always been front-and-centre of all serious discussions. I would favour keeping the US separate and closing the mailing list. How does keeping the US separate help kicking off a US marketing community? Better to hatch it in the marketing forum until it can fly on its own. not sure if I like that idea. I would rather see what most users looking for help are looking for on arrival on our forums -- a breakdown in forums where they can locate their application section and leave a message. Sending our users in need of help to a soup-bowl mix of messages will only confuse them and add more stress. I would rather have the obvious breakdown on our forums site. If there are alpha-beta problems with any of the modules, then it would seem to me better for our users to see them already in their own categories. 'Open beta' has nothing to do with our releases. Its just as long as we test and explore the forum. But yes, I think we should start with a general 'applications' forum and am uncertain if a Math forum would really be helpful, if it does not attach regulars. - Templates are unlikely to support a forum on their own from the start. Yup, but on the other hand, it is a good collection point where we can encourage ideas on templates and hope some devs will pick up on it. Its a two-way street. If we hope to attract users to our contributor forums/mailing lists, then we should also hope to attract devs to our user forums. Let's give this one a shot. I am interested in this one, particularly considering the lack of template ideas on the lists. It will be a good collection point for ideas. Do you think we will have some 3-5 regulars in a templates forum? If not, I would postpone separating those out until such a group condesates and asks for it. I have no problems with this either. Although, I can see others having problems with it. I was never too clear on what the projects mailing list was all about as it seems we are all advertising on it and discussions are happening more and more on it. It may be better to have a Discuss forum with a sub-forum Projects where only decided projects are announced. The discuss list is very active and it is hard to pull projects from any of the threads. Well, on the mailing lists, there is a benefit of separating the projects list for important 'semi-official' stuff like minutes of calls from the noise and volume of unrestrained brainstorming. However, a forum does not pollute an inbox as a mailing list does and an it is possible to move off topic threads out of it, before they create trouble. Not sure about this. I would prefer the marketing punch of a LibOLounge (where some of the characters look like :-b) or any other clever stuff that our user-base can come up in a competition. and, we should have a disclaimer sticky on it as well as the rules for off-topic conversations. We should not be afraid to stick our name in on the fun room rather than have it only associated with the serious part of the project. Life is too short. Well, take it as a personal opinion and something for people to keep in mind when voting on the proposals in the competition. ;) Best, Bjoern ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal
Le 2012-10-06 17:20, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit : On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 04:26:18PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: No sure if we were talking about empty hall, I am hoping to help fill them. :-) Yes, just like a night club opening with fewer floors in the early evening, so that they are not that empty -- and open more floors later. ;) Sorry, doesn't work for me. If the place is too full with noise, I can't hear myself think and I go elsewhere where people like me congregate ... in this case the AOO forums. Not sure about this. We were given the mandate to concentrate on the US market specifically. You may have noticed that there are already few mails on the US mailing list (of which I am part), but I believe that we are set to re-buid post-LibOCon. From what I can see, the largest problem with the US is the lack of marcons for the group, which has always been front-and-centre of all serious discussions. I would favour keeping the US separate and closing the mailing list. How does keeping the US separate help kicking off a US marketing community? Better to hatch it in the marketing forum until it can fly on its own. It has already been hatched and given its own life. It would drown in any other list. Otherwise, un-mandate and refocus on another sector. I would still favour a list on its own. We are trying to get a market of around 320 million users on-board and I think its worth being a little more focused in this one. We need a re-boot on this one. not sure if I like that idea. I would rather see what most users looking for help are looking for on arrival on our forums -- a breakdown in forums where they can locate their application section and leave a message. Sending our users in need of help to a soup-bowl mix of messages will only confuse them and add more stress. I would rather have the obvious breakdown on our forums site. If there are alpha-beta problems with any of the modules, then it would seem to me better for our users to see them already in their own categories. 'Open beta' has nothing to do with our releases. Its just as long as we test and explore the forum. But yes, I think we should start with a general 'applications' forum and am uncertain if a Math forum would really be helpful, if it does not attach regulars. - Templates are unlikely to support a forum on their own from the start. Yup, but on the other hand, it is a good collection point where we can encourage ideas on templates and hope some devs will pick up on it. Its a two-way street. If we hope to attract users to our contributor forums/mailing lists, then we should also hope to attract devs to our user forums. Let's give this one a shot. I am interested in this one, particularly considering the lack of template ideas on the lists. It will be a good collection point for ideas. Do you think we will have some 3-5 regulars in a templates forum? If not, I would postpone separating those out until such a group condesates and asks for it. Well, I would rather give it a try, we do have a template site that we should be supporting with a forums. This would give us a chance to get more traction right from the start. I have no problems with this either. Although, I can see others having problems with it. I was never too clear on what the projects mailing list was all about as it seems we are all advertising on it and discussions are happening more and more on it. It may be better to have a Discuss forum with a sub-forum Projects where only decided projects are announced. The discuss list is very active and it is hard to pull projects from any of the threads. Well, on the mailing lists, there is a benefit of separating the projects list for important 'semi-official' stuff like minutes of calls from the noise and volume of unrestrained brainstorming. However, a forum does not pollute an inbox as a mailing list does and an it is possible to move off topic threads out of it, before they create trouble. Not really sure what you mean. Not sure about this. I would prefer the marketing punch of a LibOLounge (where some of the characters look like :-b) or any other clever stuff that our user-base can come up in a competition. and, we should have a disclaimer sticky on it as well as the rules for off-topic conversations. We should not be afraid to stick our name in on the fun room rather than have it only associated with the serious part of the project. Life is too short. Well, take it as a personal opinion and something for people to keep in mind when voting on the proposals in the competition. ;) I don't really think this is a big concern from my end. Not sure if it should be. If it is it would come from the BoD I guess. Best, Bjoern All in all I can't say I agree on your approach to forums. You seem to expect the brunt of all activity on a forums to come from the participants. More of a let's wait for them to come approach. Hence,
[Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal
There is a forums proposal on the discuss list[1] and on it we have proposed a forum category for this list[2]. There are 2 major sections to the LibreOffice Forums, there is a User forums section and a Contributor forums section. The contributor section of the website is where serious contributor work gets done for the project -- a clear distinction from the user section which is there to help users in need. The contributor forums mirror those of the mailing lists and these are to give the option to those mailing lists who would prefer to use the forums instead of mailing lists or would like to test the members' response to a possible move to the forums. * Note that both sections will be open to public; we are hoping that this will help promote the contributor side of LibreOffice and to encourage those who are interested to move to contributor teams. We are hoping to hear from a lead in this list (after discussion with your members) as to whether you would like to: * move the list to a forum (there would be a short transitional period where the mailing list/forums would exist together and then the mailing list would be closed. OR * not use the forums at all (at which point the forum would be deleted from the forums site). OR * test-try using both the forum and this mailing list for a period of time after which you would decide on which one to keep. A test-period of perhaps 6-9 months may be enough to accomplish this. Feel free to respond on this thread or to any of the co-coordinators should you have any questions. The LibreOffice Forums co-coordinators: Jonathan Aquilina, Lucian Oprea, Joel Madero, Marc Paré, Jean Spiteri [1] http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss/8319 [2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At9lOM8_6gsLdDBmOUJVOURpM0hmNTgySWxCV0VzVWc#gid=0 -- Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com http://www.parEntreprise.com parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal
Hi Marc, On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 08:23:03AM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: We are hoping to hear from a lead in this list (after discussion with your members) as to whether you would like to: Not claiming to be a leader of this list, but providing the following opinions to consider. * not use the forums at all (at which point the forum would be deleted from the forums site). OR I expect both development and QA to rarely use the forum and most work to continue on the lists. However, I would not want to see development and QA being without a forum as it is a valueable entry point we should not miss. I expect us to do basic do your first build/do your first triage help there and then pick people up to the mailing lists. As such I propose to have a join QA and development forum (they wont have too many posts esp. in the beginnning and we want to prevent a 'empty hall' effect there) While we are talking about 'empty hall': - Marketing and Marketing US should be joined (unless we have a 20 head US marketing team that I dont know about and that would overwhelm the rest with their posts) - 'Installation and Configuration' for all non-Windows users should be joined. While we have enough Linux talent to warrent an own forum, on OSX the userbase is thinner and the linux users can often help out on OSX too - LibreOffice Applications should start as _one_ buzzing forum when we do 'open beta'-testing of the forum. Once we announce the forum as 'official', we can split out forums from there _if_ they warrant that by their traffic. - Templates are unlikely to support a forum on their own from the start. I would suggest to split 'Extensions LibreOffice' into 'Extension Users and Support' and 'Extension developement (incl. macro and UNO)'. Also we have way too many meta- and announcement forums in the proposal. That will lead to cross-posting and people missing out on announcements because they only check one forum etc. Everything we say 'officially' to our users should be relevant to our contributors. And since we want our users to become contributors, we shouldnt exclude them from 'contributor announcements'. Thus join those forums. Discuss should be joined into 'projects' (the third forum with announcements in the description). If you 'discuss matters affecting the LibreOffice project' it should better be relevant to the projects too. Finally, 'LibreOffice goes social/Lounge/Off the wall/whatever' can have any name that wins the competition, but it should _not_ have LibreOffice or TDF in the title as it is specifically intended to be for offtopic stuff. And yes, having that forum is essential, if only to be able to move irrelevant or offtopic posts from other forums there without offending the author too much (compared to deleting). My two eurocents. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal
Le 2012-10-06 12:26, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit : Hi Marc, On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 08:23:03AM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: We are hoping to hear from a lead in this list (after discussion with your members) as to whether you would like to: Not claiming to be a leader of this list, but providing the following opinions to consider. * not use the forums at all (at which point the forum would be deleted from the forums site). OR I expect both development and QA to rarely use the forum and most work to continue on the lists. However, I would not want to see development and QA being without a forum as it is a valueable entry point we should not miss. I expect us to do basic do your first build/do your first triage help there and then pick people up to the mailing lists. As such I propose to have a join QA and development forum (they wont have too many posts esp. in the beginnning and we want to prevent a 'empty hall' effect there) While we are talking about 'empty hall': No sure if we were talking about empty hall, I am hoping to help fill them. :-) - Marketing and Marketing US should be joined (unless we have a 20 head US marketing team that I dont know about and that would overwhelm the rest with their posts) Not sure about this. We were given the mandate to concentrate on the US market specifically. You may have noticed that there are already few mails on the US mailing list (of which I am part), but I believe that we are set to re-buid post-LibOCon. From what I can see, the largest problem with the US is the lack of marcons for the group, which has always been front-and-centre of all serious discussions. I would favour keeping the US separate and closing the mailing list. The US-forums will get better exposure on the forums and be able to get more participation from the general user-population. - 'Installation and Configuration' for all non-Windows users should be joined. While we have enough Linux talent to warrent an own forum, on OSX the userbase is thinner and the linux users can often help out on OSX too no problem with this. - LibreOffice Applications should start as _one_ buzzing forum when we do 'open beta'-testing of the forum. Once we announce the forum as 'official', we can split out forums from there _if_ they warrant that by their traffic. not sure if I like that idea. I would rather see what most users looking for help are looking for on arrival on our forums -- a breakdown in forums where they can locate their application section and leave a message. Sending our users in need of help to a soup-bowl mix of messages will only confuse them and add more stress. I would rather have the obvious breakdown on our forums site. If there are alpha-beta problems with any of the modules, then it would seem to me better for our users to see them already in their own categories. This will also help devs who are monitoring the forums to zoom in on their own particular interests. I would rather see the bulk of our philosophy with regards to the user forums to be that of helping out users. From there, the contributors can extrapolate the data they need to bug report and to trouble-shoot or to even contribute. - Templates are unlikely to support a forum on their own from the start. Yup, but on the other hand, it is a good collection point where we can encourage ideas on templates and hope some devs will pick up on it. Its a two-way street. If we hope to attract users to our contributor forums/mailing lists, then we should also hope to attract devs to our user forums. Let's give this one a shot. I am interested in this one, particularly considering the lack of template ideas on the lists. It will be a good collection point for ideas. I would suggest to split 'Extensions LibreOffice' into 'Extension Users and Support' and 'Extension developement (incl. macro and UNO)'. No problem with the name change. I think users would have an easy time reading into it. Also we have way too many meta- and announcement forums in the proposal. That will lead to cross-posting and people missing out on announcements because they only check one forum etc. Everything we say 'officially' to our users should be relevant to our contributors. And since we want our users to become contributors, we shouldnt exclude them from 'contributor announcements'. Thus join those forums. No argument with this. Sure, sounds reasonable to join both Announcement/News forums into one. I would suggest leaving this at the top of the list, so that it is the first forums for all to see. Discuss should be joined into 'projects' (the third forum with announcements in the description). If you 'discuss matters affecting the LibreOffice project' it should better be relevant to the projects too. I have no problems with this either. Although, I can see others having problems with it. I was never too clear on what the projects mailing list was all
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal
On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 04:26:18PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: No sure if we were talking about empty hall, I am hoping to help fill them. :-) Yes, just like a night club opening with fewer floors in the early evening, so that they are not that empty -- and open more floors later. ;) Not sure about this. We were given the mandate to concentrate on the US market specifically. You may have noticed that there are already few mails on the US mailing list (of which I am part), but I believe that we are set to re-buid post-LibOCon. From what I can see, the largest problem with the US is the lack of marcons for the group, which has always been front-and-centre of all serious discussions. I would favour keeping the US separate and closing the mailing list. How does keeping the US separate help kicking off a US marketing community? Better to hatch it in the marketing forum until it can fly on its own. not sure if I like that idea. I would rather see what most users looking for help are looking for on arrival on our forums -- a breakdown in forums where they can locate their application section and leave a message. Sending our users in need of help to a soup-bowl mix of messages will only confuse them and add more stress. I would rather have the obvious breakdown on our forums site. If there are alpha-beta problems with any of the modules, then it would seem to me better for our users to see them already in their own categories. 'Open beta' has nothing to do with our releases. Its just as long as we test and explore the forum. But yes, I think we should start with a general 'applications' forum and am uncertain if a Math forum would really be helpful, if it does not attach regulars. - Templates are unlikely to support a forum on their own from the start. Yup, but on the other hand, it is a good collection point where we can encourage ideas on templates and hope some devs will pick up on it. Its a two-way street. If we hope to attract users to our contributor forums/mailing lists, then we should also hope to attract devs to our user forums. Let's give this one a shot. I am interested in this one, particularly considering the lack of template ideas on the lists. It will be a good collection point for ideas. Do you think we will have some 3-5 regulars in a templates forum? If not, I would postpone separating those out until such a group condesates and asks for it. I have no problems with this either. Although, I can see others having problems with it. I was never too clear on what the projects mailing list was all about as it seems we are all advertising on it and discussions are happening more and more on it. It may be better to have a Discuss forum with a sub-forum Projects where only decided projects are announced. The discuss list is very active and it is hard to pull projects from any of the threads. Well, on the mailing lists, there is a benefit of separating the projects list for important 'semi-official' stuff like minutes of calls from the noise and volume of unrestrained brainstorming. However, a forum does not pollute an inbox as a mailing list does and an it is possible to move off topic threads out of it, before they create trouble. Not sure about this. I would prefer the marketing punch of a LibOLounge (where some of the characters look like :-b) or any other clever stuff that our user-base can come up in a competition. and, we should have a disclaimer sticky on it as well as the rules for off-topic conversations. We should not be afraid to stick our name in on the fun room rather than have it only associated with the serious part of the project. Life is too short. Well, take it as a personal opinion and something for people to keep in mind when voting on the proposals in the competition. ;) Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Forums Proposal
Le 2012-10-06 17:20, Bjoern Michaelsen a écrit : On Sat, Oct 06, 2012 at 04:26:18PM -0400, Marc Paré wrote: No sure if we were talking about empty hall, I am hoping to help fill them. :-) Yes, just like a night club opening with fewer floors in the early evening, so that they are not that empty -- and open more floors later. ;) Sorry, doesn't work for me. If the place is too full with noise, I can't hear myself think and I go elsewhere where people like me congregate ... in this case the AOO forums. Not sure about this. We were given the mandate to concentrate on the US market specifically. You may have noticed that there are already few mails on the US mailing list (of which I am part), but I believe that we are set to re-buid post-LibOCon. From what I can see, the largest problem with the US is the lack of marcons for the group, which has always been front-and-centre of all serious discussions. I would favour keeping the US separate and closing the mailing list. How does keeping the US separate help kicking off a US marketing community? Better to hatch it in the marketing forum until it can fly on its own. It has already been hatched and given its own life. It would drown in any other list. Otherwise, un-mandate and refocus on another sector. I would still favour a list on its own. We are trying to get a market of around 320 million users on-board and I think its worth being a little more focused in this one. We need a re-boot on this one. not sure if I like that idea. I would rather see what most users looking for help are looking for on arrival on our forums -- a breakdown in forums where they can locate their application section and leave a message. Sending our users in need of help to a soup-bowl mix of messages will only confuse them and add more stress. I would rather have the obvious breakdown on our forums site. If there are alpha-beta problems with any of the modules, then it would seem to me better for our users to see them already in their own categories. 'Open beta' has nothing to do with our releases. Its just as long as we test and explore the forum. But yes, I think we should start with a general 'applications' forum and am uncertain if a Math forum would really be helpful, if it does not attach regulars. - Templates are unlikely to support a forum on their own from the start. Yup, but on the other hand, it is a good collection point where we can encourage ideas on templates and hope some devs will pick up on it. Its a two-way street. If we hope to attract users to our contributor forums/mailing lists, then we should also hope to attract devs to our user forums. Let's give this one a shot. I am interested in this one, particularly considering the lack of template ideas on the lists. It will be a good collection point for ideas. Do you think we will have some 3-5 regulars in a templates forum? If not, I would postpone separating those out until such a group condesates and asks for it. Well, I would rather give it a try, we do have a template site that we should be supporting with a forums. This would give us a chance to get more traction right from the start. I have no problems with this either. Although, I can see others having problems with it. I was never too clear on what the projects mailing list was all about as it seems we are all advertising on it and discussions are happening more and more on it. It may be better to have a Discuss forum with a sub-forum Projects where only decided projects are announced. The discuss list is very active and it is hard to pull projects from any of the threads. Well, on the mailing lists, there is a benefit of separating the projects list for important 'semi-official' stuff like minutes of calls from the noise and volume of unrestrained brainstorming. However, a forum does not pollute an inbox as a mailing list does and an it is possible to move off topic threads out of it, before they create trouble. Not really sure what you mean. Not sure about this. I would prefer the marketing punch of a LibOLounge (where some of the characters look like :-b) or any other clever stuff that our user-base can come up in a competition. and, we should have a disclaimer sticky on it as well as the rules for off-topic conversations. We should not be afraid to stick our name in on the fun room rather than have it only associated with the serious part of the project. Life is too short. Well, take it as a personal opinion and something for people to keep in mind when voting on the proposals in the competition. ;) I don't really think this is a big concern from my end. Not sure if it should be. If it is it would come from the BoD I guess. Best, Bjoern All in all I can't say I agree on your approach to forums. You seem to expect the brunt of all activity on a forums to come from the participants. More of a let's wait for them to come approach. Hence,
