Re: minutes for call about new testing hardware
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 11:05 PM, Thorsten Behrens wrote: > Norbert Thiebaud wrote: >> With VAT you are at 7995e, without storage or bandwidth. that leave >> you with 1344euro net-VAT for storage and bandwidth. even with a cap >> of 1GB per month of bandwidth that leave us with 1.4TB of storage and >> you get a tie... >> > Still, interesting to see that -- give or take a few dollars or > SPECints or GBs -- AWS is competitive even to generous hosted offers. The hosted price is based on general public price. It is not taking into account any special deal that the said generous hoster may or may not extend to us. So yeah AWS can be competitive with hosted solution, it can even be way more interesting for _some_ usage pattern, like if you have a process that can fit the spot-instance restrictions, which we indeed considered and _is_ part of the mix. Norbert ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: minutes for call about new testing hardware
Norbert Thiebaud wrote: > With VAT you are at 7995e, without storage or bandwidth. that leave > you with 1344euro net-VAT for storage and bandwidth. even with a cap > of 1GB per month of bandwidth that leave us with 1.4TB of storage and > you get a tie... > Still, interesting to see that -- give or take a few dollars or SPECints or GBs -- AWS is competitive even to generous hosted offers. Cheers, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: minutes for call about new testing hardware
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Norbert Thiebaud wrote: > On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Bjoern Michaelsen > wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 04:02:00PM -0500, Norbert Thiebaud wrote: >>> 1/ this price is without VAT ( add 19% : >>> http://aws.amazon.com/tax-help/european-union/ ) >>> 2/ no storage ??? add 1.2$ per GB per year... to compare apple to >>> apple the other machine has 4TB. so that would be $4800 + VAT more on >>> aws >>> 3/ no bandwidth ? aws price for bandwidth OUT, to the internet is >>> $0.12 a GB above 1GB per month. the other box come with 20TB per month >>> included. at aws2 price that is $25200 per year + VAT >> >> First of, the c3.8xlarge comes already with 640GB storage[1]. >> Well, do we really need 4TB of storage and huge amounts of bandwidth? And >> both >> of those? oh btw I forgot: it is 4TB in Raid1 so 8TB flat. (again comparing apple to apple) won't you be glad that we have some place to put all these builds to manufacture bibisect repo ? ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: minutes for call about new testing hardware
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: > On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 04:02:00PM -0500, Norbert Thiebaud wrote: >> 1/ this price is without VAT ( add 19% : >> http://aws.amazon.com/tax-help/european-union/ ) >> 2/ no storage ??? add 1.2$ per GB per year... to compare apple to >> apple the other machine has 4TB. so that would be $4800 + VAT more on >> aws >> 3/ no bandwidth ? aws price for bandwidth OUT, to the internet is >> $0.12 a GB above 1GB per month. the other box come with 20TB per month >> included. at aws2 price that is $25200 per year + VAT > > First of, the c3.8xlarge comes already with 640GB storage[1]. > Well, do we really need 4TB of storage and huge amounts of bandwidth? And both > of those? you said 6719 EUR/pa ___max.___ yet you counted NO storage and NO bandwidth and no VAT. With VAT you are at 7995e, without storage or bandwidth. that leave you with 1344euro net-VAT for storage and bandwidth. even with a cap of 1GB per month of bandwidth that leave us with 1.4TB of storage and you get a tie... I do not know exactly how much we will need of each, but I know that 20TB a month is enough.. and I know we can make do with 4TB Are you volunteering to monitor the $-meter to figure out where we stand week after week to make sure we do not run out ? > And if we would a i2.4xlarge comes already with that. and that is i2.4xlarge $7280 + $0.621 per Hour = $15K vat included. + badnwidth cost. > Do we even know > that document load/save cycling scales anywhere near 64 cores? That is the other thing you glossed over... that cloph mentionned earlier: the manitu instance can be spliced in VM as needed, aws2 cannot. Norbert ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: minutes for call about new testing hardware
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 04:02:00PM -0500, Norbert Thiebaud wrote: > 1/ this price is without VAT ( add 19% : > http://aws.amazon.com/tax-help/european-union/ ) > 2/ no storage ??? add 1.2$ per GB per year... to compare apple to > apple the other machine has 4TB. so that would be $4800 + VAT more on > aws > 3/ no bandwidth ? aws price for bandwidth OUT, to the internet is > $0.12 a GB above 1GB per month. the other box come with 20TB per month > included. at aws2 price that is $25200 per year + VAT First of, the c3.8xlarge comes already with 640GB storage[1]. Well, do we really need 4TB of storage and huge amounts of bandwidth? And both of those? And if we would a i2.4xlarge comes already with that. Do we even know that document load/save cycling scales anywhere near 64 cores? Best, Bjoern [1] https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/ ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: minutes for call about new testing hardware
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 08:57:21PM +0100, Christian Lohmaier wrote: >> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Jean-Baptiste Faure >> wrote: >> > Le 28/10/2014 17:13, Markus Mohrhard a écrit : >> > [...] >> >> ** real hardware >> >> *** about 800€ for a 64 core, 256GB memory machine (Florian) >> > >> > 800€ only, really? >> >> monthly cost in case that wasn't clear :-) >> >> https://www.manitu.de/root-server/pro/root-server-pro-qs/ (set memory >> to 256GB and add some of the storage disks) > > Sooo, thats: > > 9600 EUR/pa > > compared to: > > (365*24 hours)*0.417USD/hour+5216USD = 8868.92 USD = 6719 EUR/pa max. 1/ this price is without VAT ( add 19% : http://aws.amazon.com/tax-help/european-union/ ) 2/ no storage ??? add 1.2$ per GB per year... to compare apple to apple the other machine has 4TB. so that would be $4800 + VAT more on aws 3/ no bandwidth ? aws price for bandwidth OUT, to the internet is $0.12 a GB above 1GB per month. the other box come with 20TB per month included. at aws2 price that is $25200 per year + VAT And you joined the call, you knew that we have considered and weighted these options, and concluded that a 'base' capacity in the form of 1 manitu instance, and a reserve for overflow and/or punctual need to get properly sized (read small) machine of aws2 as the need arise was the best way to proceed, or for process amenable to it, using spot instances. Norbert ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: minutes for call about new testing hardware
Hi, On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 08:57:21PM +0100, Christian Lohmaier wrote: > On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Jean-Baptiste Faure > wrote: > > Le 28/10/2014 17:13, Markus Mohrhard a écrit : > > [...] > >> ** real hardware > >> *** about 800€ for a 64 core, 256GB memory machine (Florian) > > > > 800€ only, really? > > monthly cost in case that wasn't clear :-) > > https://www.manitu.de/root-server/pro/root-server-pro-qs/ (set memory > to 256GB and add some of the storage disks) Sooo, thats: 9600 EUR/pa compared to: (365*24 hours)*0.417USD/hour+5216USD = 8868.92 USD = 6719 EUR/pa max. for a c3.8xlarge Linux Heavy Utilization Reserved Instance in Oregon running full throttle all year[1]. And while the manitu server has more cores, Amazons Intel Xeon E5-2680 v2 is more that twice as fast per thread than the Opterons 6272 on the root-server[2]. Actually, amazons offer is already breaking the front-up cost even after ~6 months -- and we save costs should there be downtimes for any reason. As such, I seems to me a reserved ec2 instance is still the way to go ... Best, Bjoern [1] https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/purchasing-options/reserved-instances/ [2] I should know, I have those Opterons in Big Bertha. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: minutes for call about new testing hardware
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Jean-Baptiste Faure wrote: > Le 28/10/2014 17:13, Markus Mohrhard a écrit : > [...] >> ** real hardware >> *** about 800€ for a 64 core, 256GB memory machine (Florian) > > 800€ only, really? monthly cost in case that wasn't clear :-) https://www.manitu.de/root-server/pro/root-server-pro-qs/ (set memory to 256GB and add some of the storage disks) and to add on the EC2 costs for sake of completeness: If using spot-pricing (i.e. where you set a limit how much you want to spend per hour, and if the actual price exceeds that limit the box is shut down) currently is around 0.3$/hour (without yearly fee) for the c3.8xlarge (32core, 60GB RAM) one. ec2's processors are higher-speced, but of course with the "can be shutdown any time if there are load-spikes in EC2 and thus the price/hour increases" not for stuff that should reliably run 24/7 - and of course you're kind of limited what you want to install onto those - creating additional VMs within is not supported, while on a dedicated server you can fire up additional VMs for whatever purpose you need... ciao Christian ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: minutes for call about new testing hardware
Hi, Le 28/10/2014 17:13, Markus Mohrhard a écrit : [...] > ** real hardware > *** about 800€ for a 64 core, 256GB memory machine (Florian) 800€ only, really? Best regards. JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
minutes for call about new testing hardware
Hey, here are the minutes for the call of the new testing hardware. present: cloph, moggi, Florian, Norbert, Matus, Alex, Caolan * virtual or real hardware? ** options: *** cloud spot pricing? * can be shut down randomly *** another server similar configuration to existing server ** cloud good for services that are not important (Cloph) *** no need to run everyday and don't care if they are shut down *** about c3.8xlarge on amazon (32cpu, 60GB): ~480 $/month (reserved/guranteed if running 24/7 - ~0.62$/hour) + 4289$/year - so more or less the same (Cloph) ** real hardware *** about 800€ for a 64 core, 256GB memory machine (Florian) *** could be conntected to the remaining infrastructure ** mixed environment ? *** real hardware for important parts *** leave room in budget for cloud infrastructure fuzzing might be a good candidate for cloud spot pricing *** consensus that this is best solution * how to handle requests for VM to implement new ideas? (Norbert) ** how to get access? ** we have gandalf (Markus) *** hopefully upgrade to SLE 12 soon, therefore being able to build libreoffice again ** additionally want to have at least one VM for doing crazy stuff there (Markus) ** talk to the ESC if you want to use them (Markus) ** board is the wrong target for these decisions (Markus, Norbert) * need test if hardware is fast enough? (Florian) ** 5x VM resources as upper bound to get below one day for crash testing (Markus) ** no need, hardware should be fast enough, surely faster than now * is there room with the selected hardware for cloud instance in the budget? (Norbert) ** hardware around 10k/year ** budget 15k ** there is still room for cloud infrastructure if necessary ** no need to run to the board for small changes * services running on them? ** crash testing ** performance testing ** fuzzing ** maybe some tinderboxes with special tests ** VM for crazy ideas AI: check for the price (Florian) * expected 2-4 weeks * ping Cloph, Alex, Norbet, Markus when hardware is available ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: call about new testing hardware
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Markus Mohrhard wrote: > Hey, > > so based on the doodle poll everyone who wants to join has time > Tuesday at 14:00 UTC. Everyone who is interested in discussing how we > can use our testing hardware is invited to join the call. > > Some of the topics are: > > * fuzzing > * crash testing > * performance testing > * which hardware? > * administration > * other ideas > > I suppose we will use the same room as for the public ESC call so if > you want to join have a look at the last ESC invite to find the number > and the room details. > So just to document the numbers here: Room number: 21 24 86 Country Number Czech Republic +420 22 888 07 95 Germany +49 30 34044134 Finland +35 89 42 45 00 19 France (Paris) +33 170 743 070 Great Britain +44 333 202 00 22 Great Britain +44 1 777 29 56 08 Hungary +36 18 08 84 82 Italy (Milan) +39 02 87 212 000 Italy (Rome)+39 06 888 12 000 Japan +81 3 45 20 93 34 Netherlands +3 12 52 74 40 06 Norway +47 21 04 92 14 Poland +48 22 30 70 70 4 Portugal+351 30 88 00 624 Romania +40 333 63 000 3 Slovakia+421 2 33 45 66 16 Slovenia+386 16 00 14 01 South Africa+27 2 13 00 95 90 Spain +34 911 822 733 Sweden +46 8 40 30 96 98 USA (N.Y.) +1 347 416 5028 USA +1 917 200 9279 More numbers: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Talkyoo ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: call about new testing hardware
Hi, Markus Mohrhard wrote on 2014-10-27 at 14:10: so based on the doodle poll everyone who wants to join has time Tuesday at 14:00 UTC. Everyone who is interested in discussing how we can use our testing hardware is invited to join the call. thanks for organizing this! So, this means 1500 local German time. I'd like to have Alex in as well when he's around, being the master of our infra. :-) I suppose we will use the same room as for the public ESC call so if you want to join have a look at the last ESC invite to find the number and the room details. Sounds good! Florian ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
call about new testing hardware
Hey, so based on the doodle poll everyone who wants to join has time Tuesday at 14:00 UTC. Everyone who is interested in discussing how we can use our testing hardware is invited to join the call. Some of the topics are: * fuzzing * crash testing * performance testing * which hardware? * administration * other ideas I suppose we will use the same room as for the public ESC call so if you want to join have a look at the last ESC invite to find the number and the room details. Regards, Markus ___ LibreOffice mailing list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
