[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

Buovjaga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|FIXED   |WORKSFORME

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

s.p.he...@gmx.net changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |FIXED
 Status|NEW |RESOLVED

--- Comment #17 from s.p.he...@gmx.net ---
In my currently installed version, the cursor does not switch to the ‘grab
hand’ when it moves over a line - it stays the default arrow cursor. With this
cursor it is easy (easier) to pick the line. So this issue can be considered
resolved.

Version: 7.6.2.1 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Environment: CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 6.5
User Interface: UI render: default; VLC: gtk3
Locale: en-GB (en_GB.UTF-8); UI: en-GB
Misc: Ubuntu package version: 4:7.6.2_rc1-0ubuntu0.22.04.1~lo1

OS: Linux Mint 21.2

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #16 from QA Administrators  ---
Dear s.p.helma,

To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today,
LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed
bugs which have not been touched for over a year.

There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this
bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the
details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in
getting confirmation that the bug is still present.

If you have time, please do the following:

Test to see if the bug is still present with the latest version of LibreOffice
from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/

If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the information
from Help - About LibreOffice.

If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to
RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a comment that includes the information from Help
- About LibreOffice.

Please DO NOT

Update the version field
Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker)
Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular
meaning that is not 
appropriate in this case)


If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a
REGRESSION. To do so:
1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your
bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) from
https://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/

2. Test your bug
3. Leave a comment with your results.
4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to 'inherited from OOo';
4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add 'regression' to keyword


Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat:
https://web.libera.chat/?settings=#libreoffice-qa

Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone!

Warm Regards,
QA Team

MassPing-UntouchedBug

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #15 from s.p.he...@gmx.net ---
I can confirm, that his bug is still present in:

Version: 7.2.2.2 / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 20(Build:2)
CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 5.14; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3
Locale: en-GB (en_GB.UTF-8); UI: en-GB
Ubuntu package version: 1:7.2.2~rc2-0ubuntu0.20.04.1~lo1
Calc: threaded

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #14 from QA Administrators  ---
Dear s.p.helma,

To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today,
LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed
bugs which have not been touched for over a year.

There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this
bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the
details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in
getting confirmation that the bug is still present.

If you have time, please do the following:

Test to see if the bug is still present with the latest version of LibreOffice
from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/

If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the information
from Help - About LibreOffice.

If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to
RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a comment that includes the information from Help
- About LibreOffice.

Please DO NOT

Update the version field
Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker)
Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular
meaning that is not 
appropriate in this case)


If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a
REGRESSION. To do so:
1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your
bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) from
https://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/

2. Test your bug
3. Leave a comment with your results.
4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to 'inherited from OOo';
4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add 'regression' to keyword


Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat:
https://web.libera.chat/?settings=#libreoffice-qa

Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone!

Warm Regards,
QA Team

MassPing-UntouchedBug

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #13 from s.p.he...@gmx.net ---
I can confirm, that this bug is still present on:

Version: 6.3.2.2
Build ID: 1:6.3.2-0ubuntu0.18.04.1~lo1

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #12 from QA Administrators  ---
Dear s.p.helma,

To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today,
LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed
bugs which have not been touched for over a year.

There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this
bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the
details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in
getting confirmation that the bug is still present.

If you have time, please do the following:

Test to see if the bug is still present with the latest version of LibreOffice
from https://www.libreoffice.org/download/

If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the information
from Help - About LibreOffice.

If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to
RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a comment that includes the information from Help
- About LibreOffice.

Please DO NOT

Update the version field
Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker)
Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a particular
meaning that is not 
appropriate in this case)


If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a
REGRESSION. To do so:
1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your
bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3) from
http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/

2. Test your bug
3. Leave a comment with your results.
4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to 'inherited from OOo';
4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add 'regression' to keyword


Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat:
https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.freenode.net/#libreoffice-qa

Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone!

Warm Regards,
QA Team

MassPing-UntouchedBug

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #11 from s.p.he...@gmx.net ---
I still believe, that there should be a visible clue to show the element under
the cursor. Nearly every program dealing with (vector) graphics does it.
Personally, I don't have any preference how the element-to-be-selected is
highlighted.

The alternative is to have a cursor where it's clear, where the "active" spot
is. IMHO the hand cursor used is notoriously bad in this regard.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #10 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Thanks for sharing the video. But I still think it's not a needed feature as a)
typically objects are not stacked like on 3D scenes or lines over images, b)
most users have not so many objects on the canvas (see also
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/04/01/the-many-faced-god-part-2-how-libreoffice-draw-is-expected-to-evolve/)
and c) we provide selection per Navigator (and should invest effort there). 

But in case someone wants to implement it, I could imagine a temporary frame
around the object similar to when it is selected, maybe in a slightly different
color. Same happens for selections in lists, trees etc. eg. the Gallery.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #9 from Buovjaga  ---
A video example of what preselection highlighting in 3D software looks like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmfyRi7yx1w (Blender)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

Buovjaga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|NEW
 Resolution|WORKSFORME  |---

--- Comment #8 from Buovjaga  ---
Reverting status change.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand" cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
   Keywords|needsUXEval |
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |tietze.he...@gmail.com
   |.freedesktop.org|
 Resolution|--- |WORKSFORME

--- Comment #7 from Heiko Tietze  ---
No further input on this ticket. The original issue of picking a line in front
of an image being hard because cursor doesn't change from default to grab has a
workaround with the Navigator. Don't think we can come up with an innovative
solution (highlighting the hovered object). And in the end, I don't see too
much interest in this topic anyway.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand " cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #6 from Buovjaga  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #5)
> You mean the line color turns into red or a fancy glow effect appears around
> it? And what happens in case of a red line or when the object is shining by
> default? Hard to imagine that we find a general solution for all objects and
> all drawings that is better than turning the cursor from pointer into the
> grab hand.

Everything is possible. The shading or glow color can be made relative. This is
ancient technology to all 3D artists.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand " cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #5 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Buovjaga from comment #4)
> So what is your view on pre-selection highlighting that me and the original
> reporter proposed? I'm sure there are some extremely complex cases, where
> the navigator is invaluable, but I guess most of the time a hands-on visual
> hint would be the best.

You mean the line color turns into red or a fancy glow effect appears around
it? And what happens in case of a red line or when the object is shining by
default? Hard to imagine that we find a general solution for all objects and
all drawings that is better than turning the cursor from pointer into the grab
hand.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand " cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

--- Comment #4 from Buovjaga  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> I wouldn't increase the hotspot area, at least not in general. Perhaps it
> could be adjusted according the zoom factor, if it isn't yet. Issues with
> object selection are known and the proposed solution is to have a simple
> alternative with the navigator:
> https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/07/31/how-the-navigator-may-
> support-object-handling-in-libreoffice-draw/

So what is your view on pre-selection highlighting that me and the original
reporter proposed? I'm sure there are some extremely complex cases, where the
navigator is invaluable, but I guess most of the time a hands-on visual hint
would be the best.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand " cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Blocks||100155
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #3 from Heiko Tietze  ---
I wouldn't increase the hotspot area, at least not in general. Perhaps it could
be adjusted according the zoom factor, if it isn't yet. Issues with object
selection are known and the proposed solution is to have a simple alternative
with the navigator:
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/07/31/how-the-navigator-may-support-object-handling-in-libreoffice-draw/


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100155
[Bug 100155] [META] Improve object selection and alignment
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand " cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

s.p.he...@gmx.net changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||s.p.he...@gmx.net

--- Comment #2 from s.p.he...@gmx.net ---
Thank you for the link to the previous report. I missed that one!

The workaround is really a bit clumsy. And if you forgot to name the element
it, you run into very same problem.

I can think of two possible improvements:

1. Make the pick cursor the arrow and not the grab hand. Change the cursor to
the grab hand only if the main mouse button is clicked to show that the object
can be moved now.

2. Highlight the object under the cursor.

I believe that option 2 is the better one. It also follows current practice in
CAD programs. Maybe it's also possible to combine 1 and 2?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 104142] Hard to pick a line with an image in its background because of "grab hand " cursor

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104142

Buovjaga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org,
   ||todven...@suomi24.fi

--- Comment #1 from Buovjaga  ---
There was a complaint about this before, but it was not kept open. I have a
method to make selection precise in a comment:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95841#c4

As this keeps coming up, let's ask UX. Does the hit area of lines need to be
increased? Or any other improvements you can think of?

One thing that popped to my mind is pre-selection highlighting: the line would
light up in a different color/shade, when the mouse is over the hit area.

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