[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #13 from Commit Notification 
 ---
Tamás Zolnai committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-5-4":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=d778119b867b67241b54fd7a9698c839e9bc00f5=libreoffice-5-4

tdf#108925: Too small bullet size confuses the user

It will be available in 5.4.1.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

Commit Notification  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard|target:6.0.0 target:5.3.5   |target:6.0.0 target:5.3.5
   ||target:5.4.1

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #12 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Tamás Zolnai from comment #11)
> The 22% value is not allowed because it's smaller than the minimum value...

Stupid me! Was lazy and typed the 2 just twice not thinking about the minimum
value. Of course it works like a charm. Issue fixed, thank you!

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|VERIFIED

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #11 from Tamás Zolnai  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #10)
> While the input now has 5% steps from 25% to 250% (which is cut on the upper
> and lower edges, btw) it's not possible to enter precise values like 22%. Or
> rather these values are not stored. That might affect only a few users but
> is bad usability as the user input is not respected. Can you change this,
> Tamás?

As I see it's allowed to enter precise values like 26%, 27% and so on. The 22%
value is not allowed because it's smaller than the minimum value (25%). It's
not about the steps, but about the minimum value. I'm not sure what's your
problem with this. That was the aim of the code change to not allow setting
small values.
This is how restriction works, not allowed values are ignored. You can see the
same behavior if you type for example a character into this field. When the
number field loses the focus it checks whether the typed value is valid and if
not it changes back to the previous value or to the minimum value (if the input
is a small number).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #10 from Heiko Tietze  ---
While the input now has 5% steps from 25% to 250% (which is cut on the upper
and lower edges, btw) it's not possible to enter precise values like 22%. Or
rather these values are not stored. That might affect only a few users but is
bad usability as the user input is not respected. Can you change this, Tamás?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #9 from Commit Notification 
 ---
Tamás Zolnai committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-5-3":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=166d63036b57672a16d50663246c73750ef98ea7=libreoffice-5-3

tdf#108925: Too small bullet size confuses the user

It will be available in 5.3.5.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

Commit Notification  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard|target:6.0.0|target:6.0.0 target:5.3.5

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #8 from Commit Notification 
 ---
Tamás Zolnai committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=4e59f0481bdd68edfe95816f22315e1538d1a6ce

Related tdf#108925: Use 5% steps for relative size number field

It will be available in 6.0.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #7 from Tamás Zolnai  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #6)
> Looks good for new bullets (the intervals could be in 5%, more precise input
> only directly). But opening a document with bullet size <25% applies the
> minimum automatically. I vote for keeping this behavior, consciously taking
> into account that user documents may change. Those who format with
> ultra-small bullets (what else could be the reason) should reconsider to use
> standard methods.
> 
> Many thanks Tamas!

Yes, it's intentional to have this automatical change of small bullets during
document import to the new minimum value. It might be problematic to allow
smaller values while the constraint is there on the GUI. Also it was the
porpose of this change to make visible those bullets which are already there in
old documents.

I'll add this 5% intervals, you suggested. Thanks!

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #6 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Looks good for new bullets (the intervals could be in 5%, more precise input
only directly). But opening a document with bullet size <25% applies the
minimum automatically. I vote for keeping this behavior, consciously taking
into account that user documents may change. Those who format with ultra-small
bullets (what else could be the reason) should reconsider to use standard
methods.

Many thanks Tamas!

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #5 from Commit Notification 
 ---
Tamás Zolnai committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=11652be4071ef6d1d89b2c397aa1a32476e03bf6

tdf#108925: Too small bullet size confuses the user

It will be available in 6.0.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

Commit Notification  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard||target:6.0.0

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #4 from Tamás Zolnai  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3)
> Sane constraints make always sense and the 25% suggestion sounds good to me. 
> Besides this I don't understand the use case of an option to tweak the size
> in addition to different characters (large and small bullets). A feature
> that is restricted to Impress too.

I see this option reasonable. That's true for some bullet characters there are
two sizes (small and large), but I guess it's not true for all symbols. If you
select a custom symbol (for example an arrow), it is useful that you can
specify its size.

This Impress-only setting might come from the different usage of text. I mean
in Impress there isn't a general text flow, but text is always inside some text
box. In text boxes it might be useful to use relative sizes, since in this way
if you change the font (for example to fit in the current text box) of the text
the bullet size will follow it. This difference is there in MS Office too.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #3 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Sane constraints make always sense and the 25% suggestion sounds good to me. 
Besides this I don't understand the use case of an option to tweak the size in
addition to different characters (large and small bullets). A feature that is
restricted to Impress too.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

--- Comment #2 from Tamás Zolnai  ---
The related settings can be find at Format -> Bullets and Numbering ->
Customize -> Relative size (in Impress). Here can we add the limit with not
allowing to set too small size.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

Tamás Zolnai  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 108925] Too small bullet size confuses the user

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108925

Tamás Zolnai  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Too small bullet size   |Too small bullet size
   |confusis the usere  |confuses the user

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