[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |ASSIGNED
   Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |tietze.he...@gmail.com
   |desktop.org |

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |easyHack, needsDevEval
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |rb.hensc...@t-online.de,
   |.freedesktop.org|tietze.he...@gmail.com

--- Comment #17 from Heiko Tietze  ---
We talked about this idea in the design meeting. The idea is accepted and might
be easily implemented.

Switch the radio button from portrait to landscape when width becomes larger
than height. If the user clicks the radio button it exchanges width/height. 

Regina, any concerns regarding ODF?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||108650


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108650
[Bug 108650] [META] Page deck/tab of the sidebar
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

--- Comment #16 from Tomaz Vajngerl  ---
Looking at the behavior now it is indeed flawed.

In sidebar: you can select a predefined size (A4, letter, ...) and change the
orientation and all works fine. If you define your own custom size, then for no
reason the change of orientation sets the size to 0, 0. 

In the dialog you have the same possibilities but here portrait and landscape
is a radio button not a combo. The naming of labels is also different (Size vs.
Format). If you set your custom size here and switch landscape/portrait then it
just switches width/height regardless which is actually landscape and which
portrait. 

Looking at this I find cson...@halmai.hu ideas a step in the right direction so
we don't allow users to create inconsistencies with the UI. The severity of
this is however in the low - "paper-cut" category.. 

Oh.. and the sidebar is different in writer and draw for no reason - including
the label (again Size/Format).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

--- Comment #14 from Kenneth Hanson  ---
Correction to the above. I think a swap button is helpful regardless of whether
or not the orientation is determined automatically.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

--- Comment #13 from Kenneth Hanson  ---
I second the idea of a "swap/flip" button as opposed to trying to automatically
change the values.

Also, the current behavior is definitely annoying. A use of of mine is to first
pick a standard paper size, then divide the height by 3 or 4. This very often
results in landscape dimensions in a portrait setting.

Unlike the case where you are setting the page to a known size (like 40x30 cm),
I don't have all of these values memorized, so every time I have to remember
one while I swap the values manually.

I think a swap button would satisfy the use cases that handled well by the
current radio buttons, as well as the ones that aren't.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

--- Comment #12 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #9)
> (In reply to csongor from comment #7)
> > I still think that the current behaviour is very annoying, counter-intuitive
> > and not understandable for most of the users therefore it should be changed.
> 
> That's vastly exaggerated :-). At maximum it's a minor inconsistency.

OK, I admit, I exaggerated it a bit. :) 



> > I think my proposed idea would be totally clean, not confusing and easy to
> > implement. The following steps should be done.
> > - the Width and Height fields should be kept as they are now
> > - the Orientation radio button should be replaced by a text that displays
> > portrait/square/landscape if wh, respectively
> > - there should be a "Swap Width and Height" button beside the two input
> > fields.  
> 
> That complicates a simple interface way too much. What you ask for is an
> automatic adjustment of portrait or landscape depending on user settings.
> Would have the drawback of unintentional behavior in case you define
> landscape first and manipulate the values later.
> 
> I wonder if all this trouble is a language related thing. Would you still
> request the enhancement when the options have more generic terms and the
> function is called "flip"? (Not voting for this change, just as an example.)

Based on the basic JavaScript example I commented above, do you still think it
is complicated?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

--- Comment #11 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
Just to make it easier to understand what I want, I created a very basic
implementation in JavaScript: https://codepen.io/halmai/pen/EbXwzz

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #10 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Topic is on the agenda for the design meeting next week. Setting to NEW
meanwhile.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

--- Comment #9 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to csongor from comment #7)
> I still think that the current behaviour is very annoying, counter-intuitive
> and not understandable for most of the users therefore it should be changed.

That's vastly exaggerated :-). At maximum it's a minor inconsistency.

> I think my proposed idea would be totally clean, not confusing and easy to
> implement. The following steps should be done.
> - the Width and Height fields should be kept as they are now
> - the Orientation radio button should be replaced by a text that displays
> portrait/square/landscape if wh, respectively
> - there should be a "Swap Width and Height" button beside the two input
> fields.  

That complicates a simple interface way too much. What you ask for is an
automatic adjustment of portrait or landscape depending on user settings. Would
have the drawback of unintentional behavior in case you define landscape first
and manipulate the values later.

I wonder if all this trouble is a language related thing. Would you still
request the enhancement when the options have more generic terms and the
function is called "flip"? (Not voting for this change, just as an example.)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED
 Resolution|WONTFIX |---

--- Comment #8 from Xisco Faulí  ---
Putting it back to unconfirmed for discussion...

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

--- Comment #7 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
I wanted to read again the explanation Johnny_M has linked but that page is not
reachable any more (404 not found). I wanted to read it again, maybe I missed
something the last time but I could not. Thus, I can read what I wrote in
Comment #2. 

I still think that the current behaviour is very annoying, counter-intuitive
and not understandable for most of the users therefore it should be changed.

So, would it be possible to reopen this bug as an improvement request, please?

I think my proposed idea would be totally clean, not confusing and easy to
implement. The following steps should be done.
- the Width and Height fields should be kept as they are now
- the Orientation radio button should be replaced by a text that displays
portrait/square/landscape if wh, respectively
- there should be a "Swap Width and Height" button beside the two input fields. 

If somebody picks an item from the Format dropdown then the dimensions of the
selected page should overwrite the existing W and H values according to this
rule:
- The smaller dimension of the new page should overwrite the smaller value from
W and H and the larger dimension of the new should overwrite the other one.

More precisely:

if (oldW > oldH) {  // was landscape
W = max(newW, newH);
H = min(newW, newH);
} else {   // was portrait or square
W = min(newW, newH);
H = max(newW, newH);
}

This logic would preserve the orientation of the page. 

...now I checked how this works in other programs I have installed. Well, GIMP
uses a solution that is very similar to my proposal. Please, consider reopening
it as an improvement proposal. Thanks.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 CC||xiscofa...@libreoffice.org
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #6 from Xisco Faulí  ---
I agree to Johnny as well.
Closing as RESOLVED WONTFIX

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

dieterp  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||dgp-m...@gmx.de
   Severity|normal  |enhancement

--- Comment #5 from dieterp  ---
I agree to Johnny, that everything is, how it should be, so I think, it is not
a bug but a proposal for an enhancement (so I changed Importance to medium
enhancement).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

--- Comment #4 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
(In reply to Johnny_M from comment #3)
> Sorry, I'm not on any LO team, so I shouldn't have closed. Setting the
> status back to unconfirmed.

Thanks, Johnny. 

I think the modification I asked in the bug starting message sounds to be
simple. (The radiobutton should reflect the dimensions, when H>W then it should
be Landscape and Portrait otherwise.)

I would categorise it as a low hanging fruit but one who knows the code may
disagree with me. :)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

Johnny_M  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|UNCONFIRMED
 CC|kla...@partyheld.de |
 Ever confirmed|1   |0

--- Comment #3 from Johnny_M  ---
Sorry, I'm not on any LO team, so I shouldn't have closed. Setting the status
back to unconfirmed.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

cson...@halmai.hu changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED
 Resolution|INVALID |---
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #2 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
(In reply to Johnny_M from comment #1)
> This doesn't look like an issue, but rather the regular behavior of any
> program. Please note that the page size and page orientation are independent
> things. For a brief explanation, please refer to
> http://athleticaid.com/yaquinapress/landscape.html (they refer to "page
> shape" as page size).

I checked the mentioned link and found that all it says is just many other
programs behave the same way. It does not say that this behaviour is the
correct one. 

On the contrary, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_orientation explicitly says
that portrait is when the height is greater than the width:

> The [...] portrait [...] is [...] where the height of the display area is 
> greater than the width [...]

So, I think following the _bad_ behaviour of other programs is not the good
solution for LibreOffice. LO should behave nicely, logically and according to
the expectations, rather than not following a behaviour that contradicts the
expectations of most of the users. 

I liked when 15-20 years ago StarOffice moved the page formatting into the
Format menu, rather than File menu, where MSWord and Google Docs still keep it.
It simply is more logical and plausible under Format menu. Similarly, a
vertical page should mean portrait, regardless what other programs say.

I reopen the ticket and please, re-consider changing the current behaviour.
Thanks.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 106890] Page orientation of User page size is not determined correctly

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106890

Johnny_M  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 CC||kla...@partyheld.de
 Resolution|--- |INVALID

--- Comment #1 from Johnny_M  ---
This doesn't look like an issue, but rather the regular behavior of any
program. Please note that the page size and page orientation are independent
things. For a brief explanation, please refer to
http://athleticaid.com/yaquinapress/landscape.html (they refer to "page shape"
as page size).

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