[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|needsUXEval | CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |heiko.tietze@documentfounda |.freedesktop.org|tion.org --- Comment #13 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #11) > But something *temporary*, clearly targeting a printout for quick-n-dirty > analysis, which would use some simple setup, but *does not* change any > document settings, would IMO be a reasonable thing to add. (In reply to Gabor Kelemen (allotropia) from comment #12) > Yes, that makes sense... > Having styles and using them is nice when you understand them in depth, but > in larger organizations it's common that not everyone is like that. It's > also common to have a document made by experts (of some area, also Office) > be printed & tweaked by a less expert colleague. > For such use cases overriding the style settings on a "just do it, NOW!!!" > base makes sense. Sounds wrong to me. I'd rather hint how to do things properly. Could be, for example, an icon-only button with the tooltip "Change page style" next to the print orientation option. But likely not much more to discuss here as the doers decide - and you have to listen to the customers while I can stipulate education. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #12 from Gabor Kelemen (allotropia) --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #11) > PDF export has "Whole sheet export" feature. Indeed, this is not what is > discussed here. But my idea is: can we possibly introduce something called > "draft" print mode here, to address the issue? > > The context: the printout depends on: > > 1. Selection in the Print dialog (Range: All pages / defined pages; More -> > Print All Sheets / Selected Sheets / Selected Cells); > 2. Print styles of the sheets to print, which define virtual page size, and > scaling when outputting to that virtual page; > 3. Print ranges (menu Format) on each of the sheet; > 4. The physical page and its layout selected in Print dialog, on which the > virtual page is placed. > > The printing is really complex; and I believe we should not introduce *more* > complexity by adding (default or not) settings to override specific > properties of styles in the Print dialog. > > But something *temporary*, clearly targeting a printout for quick-n-dirty > analysis, which would use some simple setup, but *does not* change any > document settings, would IMO be a reasonable thing to add. Which would, as > asked here, ignore page orientation - but not only that: page size; margins; > maybe header/footer; page borders; scaling; maybe print ranges ... so that > it would not create impression that it replaces the proper setup for > publishing. > > What do you think? Yes, that makes sense. No need to change style from the Print dialog - just make the Paper size and Orientation dropdowns "work" - i.e. align the virtual page size / print range and the physical page selected by the user. Having styles and using them is nice when you understand them in depth, but in larger organizations it's common that not everyone is like that. It's also common to have a document made by experts (of some area, also Office) be printed & tweaked by a less expert colleague. For such use cases overriding the style settings on a "just do it, NOW!!!" base makes sense. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #11 from Mike Kaganski --- PDF export has "Whole sheet export" feature. Indeed, this is not what is discussed here. But my idea is: can we possibly introduce something called "draft" print mode here, to address the issue? The context: the printout depends on: 1. Selection in the Print dialog (Range: All pages / defined pages; More -> Print All Sheets / Selected Sheets / Selected Cells); 2. Print styles of the sheets to print, which define virtual page size, and scaling when outputting to that virtual page; 3. Print ranges (menu Format) on each of the sheet; 4. The physical page and its layout selected in Print dialog, on which the virtual page is placed. The printing is really complex; and I believe we should not introduce *more* complexity by adding (default or not) settings to override specific properties of styles in the Print dialog. But something *temporary*, clearly targeting a printout for quick-n-dirty analysis, which would use some simple setup, but *does not* change any document settings, would IMO be a reasonable thing to add. Which would, as asked here, ignore page orientation - but not only that: page size; margins; maybe header/footer; page borders; scaling; maybe print ranges ... so that it would not create impression that it replaces the proper setup for publishing. What do you think? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #10 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to Stéphane Guillou (stragu) from comment #9) > A hint/link to the dialog could be sufficient. Well, the documentation would be the right place to explain what we are discussing here. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #9 from Stéphane Guillou (stragu) --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #7) > This is *SO MUCH* distant from the reality! The page settings in Calc are > VERY important, and applying them to ranges of sheets is very useful thing. > Only the most basic usage can avoid that. (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8) > I assume many user will preview the printout first. And without digging too > deep, I find "Format Page" on the context menu which allows to change the > orientation, for example. We do much better than competitors in this case, > IMO. OK, point taken. My observation was based on personal experience + first-hand accounts from people switching from MS Office. (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #6) > Or add a button leading to page style dialog, with some note that "chosen > page layout doesn't match the layout of the page style - do you want to fix > that?" or the like. A hint/link to the dialog could be sufficient. What do you think Heiko? Too busy a dialog? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #8 from Heiko Tietze --- I assume many user will preview the printout first. And without digging too deep, I find "Format Page" on the context menu which allows to change the orientation, for example. We do much better than competitors in this case, IMO. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #7 from Mike Kaganski --- Also: (In reply to Stéphane Guillou (stragu) from comment #5) > Calc is a component where users can be surprised to learn that page style > exists and has to be tweaked to print as expected. This is *SO MUCH* distant from the reality! The page settings in Calc are VERY important, and applying them to ranges of sheets is very useful thing. Only the most basic usage can avoid that. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #6 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to Stéphane Guillou (stragu) from comment #5) > How about an option in the print dialog, something like "Ignore Page Style's > paper format", which could be on by default? I do not see how stacking "ignore this", "ignore that" could be a good option whatsoever. IMO, the original expectation that the layout should change is wrong -> WF. Or add a button leading to page style dialog, with some note that "chosen page layout doesn't match the layout of the page style - do you want to fix that?" or the like. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 Stéphane Guillou (stragu) changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||needsUXEval Severity|normal |enhancement CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists ||.freedesktop.org, ||stephane.guillou@libreoffic ||e.org --- Comment #5 from Stéphane Guillou (stragu) --- Calc is a component where users can be surprised to learn that page style exists and has to be tweaked to print as expected. Writer, Draw and Impress clearly have page and slide settings that are directly visible on canvas, whereas Calc has no visual hint of it. So I can see how many might expect to see the print ranges' content automatically adapt to whatever paper size is chosen in the Print dialog, seeing a sheet as just a number of cells that can expand at will in both directions, virtually without limits. Backward compatibility + PDF export means we can't just do away with the Page Style dialog's settings that can also be found in the Print dialog, nor add a "[from printer settings]" option for Paper Format like there is for Paper Tray. How about an option in the print dialog, something like "Ignore Page Style's paper format", which could be on by default? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #4 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #3) > In MS, both Word and Excel, there is *no* print styles I am sorry for the typo; I meant "there is no *page* styles". -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #3 from Mike Kaganski --- Hmm, we always kept print settings separate from page styles. Print settings never changed those. In MS, both Word and Excel, there is *no* print styles; and all page settings are applied ad hoc. In Calc, where all the page settings are managed through styles, one style can be applied to several different sheets; if you allow such a method of modifying styles, then printing a selection, you would be surprised to learn that page settings have changed where you didn't expect. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #2 from Gabor Kelemen (allotropia) --- Created attachment 187172 --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=187172=edit The example file in Excel and Calc print preview: as landscape -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 155218] Printing: selecting different page orientation does not relayout printed content
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155218 --- Comment #1 from Gabor Kelemen (allotropia) --- Created attachment 187171 --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=187171=edit The example file in Excel and Calc print preview: as portrait -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.
