[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom "hourglass" pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|high|medium

--- Comment #16 from Xisco Faulí  ---
Changing priority back to 'medium' since the number of duplicates is lower than
5

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom "hourglass" pointer/ cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

--- Comment #15 from Sierk Bornemann  ---
(In reply to Rimas Kudelis from comment #10)
> Apparently, there seems to be no official way for an app to opt to use this
> cursor itself – the OS sets it when the app is unresponsive:
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13274975/how-can-i-set-the-mac-colorful-
> loading-cursor-to-an-nsimageview
> 
> This makes me wonder: if you try to open a really big document (one which
> would take ~10 seconds to load), does OS X replace this hourglass cursor
> with its own spinning wheel? If so, then perhaps the solution is to simply
> not change the cursor to busy state from within LibreOffice at all?

Apple: Support Document PH25689: macOS Sierra: Pointers in macOS (Sep 26, 2016)
https://support.apple.com/kb/PH25689?viewlocale=en_US=en_US

[quote]
Wait (spinning disk) cursor = Items are loading = Appears when items are
loading. You can still move the pointer elsewhere.

Wait (spinning disk) cursor = Wait cursor = Appears when a delay of more than a
few seconds occurs.
[/quote]


The two icons for Wait (spinning disk) cursor either used for indicating "Items
are loading" or used for indicating a delay of a few seconds seem to be/are
_identical_.



Apple: macOS Human Interface Guidelines: Pointers
https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/Pointers.html:

[quote]
macOS provides several standard pointers that provide well-defined feedback to
users. It’s important to use these pointers correctly because users already
know what they mean.

Use system-provided pointers according to their intended purpose. Users are
accustomed to the meaning of the pointers they see in macOS. If you change the
meaning of a system-provided pointer, users can’t predict the results of their
actions.

[…]

The spinning wait cursor (shown below) is also standard, but it is displayed
automatically by the window server when an app can't handle all of the events
it receives. In general, if an app doesn’t respond for a few moments, the
spinning wait cursor appears. If the app continues to be unresponsive, users
often react by force-quitting it.

*Create a custom pointer cautiously.* *Before you design a custom pointer for
your app (especially a custom version of a standard pointer), be sure the new
pointer actually improves the usability of your app and doesn’t confuse users.*
If you’ve determined that you need a custom pointer, follow these guidelines as
you design it:

Your design needs to make clear where the hot spot of the pointer is (briefly,
a pointer’s hot spot is the part of the pointer that must be positioned over an
onscreen object before clicking has an effect).

If your custom pointer is a version of a standard pointer, you also need to
create custom versions of related pointers. For example, if you create a custom
version of the arrow pointer you also need to create custom versions of the
related arrow pointers, such as copy, move, alias, and poof.
[/quote]



The hourglass cursor used in current LO on macOS violates current Human
Interface Guidelines of Apple as well as Apples support document PH25689.
Please use either the official system spinning wheel or provide a custom icon
for the waiting cursor that looks better and more modern and Mac-like.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

--- Comment #14 from Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org ---
Sierk, can you read comment 10 again before being annoyingly repetitive?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

--- Comment #13 from Sierk Bornemann sie...@gmx.de ---
Since Bug 53148 and Bug 53151 have been fixed recently concerning the Windows
platform – what about fixing the cursors generally for *all* platforms and
abolish the old custom SO/OO/LO cursors in favor to native system cursors *in
general*?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

--- Comment #10 from Rimas Kudelis r...@akl.lt ---
Apparently, there seems to be no official way for an app to opt to use this
cursor itself – the OS sets it when the app is unresponsive:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13274975/how-can-i-set-the-mac-colorful-loading-cursor-to-an-nsimageview

This makes me wonder: if you try to open a really big document (one which would
take ~10 seconds to load), does OS X replace this hourglass cursor with its own
spinning wheel? If so, then perhaps the solution is to simply not change the
cursor to busy state from within LibreOffice at all?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

--- Comment #11 from Rimas Kudelis r...@akl.lt ---
Here's the list of cursor names that can be used, BTW:
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Cocoa/Reference/ApplicationKit/Classes/NSCursor_Class/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/2326-SW7

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

--- Comment #12 from Rimas Kudelis r...@akl.lt ---
And here are the images (strangely, without names) of the cursors that the OS
provides:
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/Pointers.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/2957-CH97-SW2

My apologies for multiple comments in a row.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

--- Comment #9 from Sierk Bornemann sie...@gmx.de ---
In reply to https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53148#c4 :

The issue still exists also in LibreOffice Version: 4.4.0.1 and lower for Mac
(OS X Yosemite 10.10.1).

Occurrence: start LibreOffice - remain in main area of start center - click
on any shown recent document to open it


Please fix.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.freedesktop.or
   ||g/show_bug.cgi?id=53148

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

Sierk Bornemann sie...@gmx.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|low |high

--- Comment #8 from Sierk Bornemann sie...@gmx.de ---
(In reply to comment #6)

The issue still is present (LO 4.2.5.2, LO 4.3.0.1). Any progress in it?

For instance, it attracts to my attention, when starting LO for the first time,
and when then opening a known recent document from the overview panel.
If closing LO and doing the same again, the hourglass doesn't show up again,
since both, the application as well as the said document, could be loaded
faster into memory than the attempt before, so the hourglass then
doesn't/needn't appear.

The fact, that this issue *still* resists in the year 2014, giving LO a touch
of a forgotten relict of the 1980th, and obviously still is *not* fixed
although known long enough, really is an embarrassment.

If the fix really would be trivial to do, then please fix this issue and use
the system's waiting pointer.

I am raising the importance of this issue to high, because this issue is one
of such seeming-of-no-importance-issues, Mac users complain about (rightly!)
and which show tellingly, how unlovingly the Mac platform sometimes is treated
concerning some Open Source software in comparison to the Windows platform and
Linux platform.

Open Source can do better than leaving bad impressions such as this issue. Much
better. Let's prove it!

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

Emir Sarı emir_s...@msn.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||fengl...@fastmail.fm

--- Comment #7 from Emir Sarı emir_s...@msn.com ---
*** Bug 54407 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

emir_s...@msn.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||42082

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

Alex Thurgood ipla...@yahoo.co.uk changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #4 from Alex Thurgood ipla...@yahoo.co.uk ---
Confirming, but a feature request nonetheless, and no doubt of fairly low
priority.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

--- Comment #5 from Alex Thurgood ipla...@yahoo.co.uk ---
Although, it might be fairly easy to find out where in the code it is used and
replace it with the standard OS beachball ?


Alex

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

--- Comment #6 from Roman Eisele b...@eikota.de ---
(In reply to comment #4)
 ... and no doubt of fairly low priority.

Doubtless! ;-)


(In reply to comment #5)
 Although, it might be fairly easy to find out where in the code it is used
 and replace it with the standard OS beachball ?

According to my (poor) code reading facilities,
the following lines seem relevant:

1)
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/vcl/Zip_osxres.mk#71

2)
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/vcl/aqua/source/app/saldata.cxx#151

3)
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/xmloff/source/core/xmltoken.cxx#2574

Probably line 1) could just be deleted, together with the cursors/hourglass.png
file, as soon as the cursor is not used anymore; and 2) may be the line which
needs to be changed -- I just don’t know how to “replace it with the standard
OS beachball” there :-(

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

Ivan Timofeev timofeev@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||timofeev@gmail.com

--- Comment #2 from Ivan Timofeev timofeev@gmail.com 2012-09-11 16:57:55 
UTC ---
IIRC I never saw this custom cursor under Windows and Linux, so this is a Mac
problem?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

Roman Eisele b...@eikota.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 OS/Version|All |Mac OS X (All)
   Priority|medium  |low

--- Comment #3 from Roman Eisele b...@eikota.de 2012-09-11 17:07:19 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #2)
 IIRC I never saw this custom cursor under Windows and Linux, so this is a Mac
 problem?

That is possible; I set the Platform picker to Mac OS X for now.

But it is also possible that it just happens very rarely -- even on Mac OS, it
is not easy to spot this pointer, it is only shown for a second or two on some
long-lasting operations.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 52263] Replace custom hourglass pointer/cursor by the operating system's default wait pointer everywhere

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52263

Roman Eisele b...@eikota.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 OS/Version|Mac OS X (All)  |All

--- Comment #1 from Roman Eisele b...@eikota.de 2012-07-19 11:20:37 PDT ---
I forgot to mention that LibreOffice already uses the system's default wait
pointer in many situations (at least on MacOS X); it is a question of
consistency to improve the remaining situations in which we still use the old
custom hourglass pointer, in order to remove the latter everywhere.

Maybe this is an easy hack? I can't judge this.

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