[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #18 from R. Green  ---
I strongly support this enhancement request to allow the Bibliography to be
updated  directy from the database window.

IMV, "my real name" (comments 15, 16) has given a convincing explanation of the
problem, and also highlighted the fact that biblio entries in the text cannot
be located using "Find."

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|high|medium

--- Comment #17 from Xisco Faulí  ---
Changing priority back to 'medium' since the number of duplicates is lower than
5

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #16 from my real name  ---
The technique I used to clear all the problems was:

I created a dummy book in the database.
Then I inserted the dummy book entry after the end of my document and right
before the bibliography table.

(My bibliography was sorted according to type of document (article, book, www,
etc.) and then by the title of the document.)

To force a reset I edit the entry (right click on the text entry/reference, not
in the database) and change the type of document from "www document" to "book"
and the title from zzz to aaa, so that it's moved from the top to the bottom of
the bibliography table and then vice-versa, each time updating the table.
Seemingly, that forces the table to be rebuilt and clears the repeats and
updates to the changes made in the database.

That makes me think that all the functions necessary to get the bibliography
updated correctly are in place, and that those aren't being called. I don't
know what is the mess in the code, but should not be impossible to fix and the
feature should be kept and just improved.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #15 from my real name  ---
There actually seems to be one identifier that links the entry with the
database, and it's the "identifier" field, which has to be unique to each
database entry, and if you copy and paste text that contains references to a
blank database-less odt document, sillily, the identifier is copied and not the
reference number.
I'm using version  6.1.5.2, and while still a buggy mess, it isn't absolutely
hopeless, after updating the database, removing and adding several entries,
everything gets gradually fixed by itself. 
The most annoying thing is repeated entry numbers, which I have to deal one by
one, deleting and reinserting.
Another annoying "feature" is that you cannot search the entries in the text, a
workaround is that you can copy to a plain text application and then search to
find offending entries, because the reference number and not the identifier is
copied to plain text (maybe "paste special" would work?). Arghhh, everything
seems fine now, finally, after a long bug wading journey.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #14 from thanasis57  ---
(In reply to Ben from comment #12)
> I agree with Mieszko's observation that it would be better to remove
> Bibliography functionality entirely from LibreOffice Writer. I have spent
> -many- days on both the database and the embedded version and concluded that
> the first one has many bugs, the second one has usability issues. These
> issues have existed for many years.
> 
> Heiko's observation is also appropriate. I have started to use Zotero, which
> is very advanced compared to the current LibreOffice Bibliography features
> and will be hard to catch up on.
> 
> If the functionality is removed, then this could be reflected in the online
> help and documentation by recommending Zotero (I have not tried Medeley)?

I agree with every single word.

No software is developed in a vacuum, and in the current context the power of
Zotero is unparalleled. There is no shame in admitting that a dedicated suite
can do a better job in a niche area. Better embrace the situation and use
resources strategically.

If dropping bibliography altogether saves resources in code developing and
bug-tracking, go for it!

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #13 from Mieszko  ---
Well, I'm not a heavy bibliography user - I'm writing my master thesis I do not
plan to write such texts in the future. And if I really had to - I would write
in LaTeX and spend some time to learn BibLaTeX rather than BibTeX due to
limited options of the latter.
I've had a look to Zotero and Mendeley webpages, but currently decided to
insert all bibliography manually in LO, rather than learning another system and
inserting info there.

Such simple bibliography system in LO will be nice to people like me, but it
there is no plan for base support, then it should be removed.

To sum up, my end-user advice is:
1. please fix this bug (and other), polish the UX for the basic stuf (like the
first Ricardo says in the first comment from
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2018/12/19/save-the-bibliography/
There is no need for heavy rebuilding the whole stuff: advanced people will use
Zotero or another plugins.

2. If there is *really* no time for simple fixes OR there is horrible spaghetti
code that nobody want to touch: remove biblio

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #12 from Ben  ---
I agree with Mieszko's observation that it would be better to remove
Bibliography functionality entirely from LibreOffice Writer. I have spent
-many- days on both the database and the embedded version and concluded that
the first one has many bugs, the second one has usability issues. These issues
have existed for many years.

Heiko's observation is also appropriate. I have started to use Zotero, which is
very advanced compared to the current LibreOffice Bibliography features and
will be hard to catch up on.

If the functionality is removed, then this could be reflected in the online
help and documentation by recommending Zotero (I have not tried Medeley)?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #11 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Mieszko from comment #10)
> 6 years later bug still remains.
> 
> It would be better to drop all the bibliography features, than live with
> that. 
> 
> I wouldn't spend so many hours to manually inserting over 40 of bibliography
> entries if I new that I cannot update it :(

If you are a heavy bibliography user you may give Zotero or Mendeley a try. See
also
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2018/12/19/save-the-bibliography/

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #10 from Mieszko  ---
6 years later bug still remains.

It would be better to drop all the bibliography features, than live with that. 

I wouldn't spend so many hours to manually inserting over 40 of bibliography
entries if I new that I cannot update it :(

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||tietze.he...@gmail.com
 Blocks||101258


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101258
[Bug 101258] [META] Revamp the bibliography
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90
   ||641

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #9 from thanasis57 tha...@yahoo.com ---
(In reply to Alex Thurgood from comment #8)
 Adding self to CC if not already on

I just added bug #90641. Maybe something interesting related to comment #5?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #8 from Alex Thurgood ipla...@yahoo.co.uk ---
Adding self to CC if not already on

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #7 from Paul copa-cab...@gmx.de ---
The problem seems even worse:
Not being able to update would be ok if I could at least insert a new bib
index. But this works only in parts: new used entries are added (as if one
would update the old index), but already used and changed entries not. So there
is no way to update the bib index totally at all.

Ways to reproduce:
1. Open a document with somy bibliography entries and a bibliography index
2. Change anything in the bibliography database
3. Optional: remove bibliography index
4. Insert bibliography entry

Current behavior: 
New entries show up
Old entries stay the same

Expected Behavior:
All changed entries are updated

Hint:
If i remove any entry in the text, update the index and then add it and update
again, it is updated.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

bfoman bfo.bugm...@spamgourmet.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||alexander.wi...@zoho.com

--- Comment #6 from bfoman bfo.bugm...@spamgourmet.com ---
*** Bug 72933 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

Jorendc jore...@libreoffice.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 OS|Linux (All) |All
   Severity|normal  |enhancement
   Priority|medium  |high
Summary|undefined: bibliography |Possibility to update
   |database update |bibliography references
   ||from bibliography database
Version|3.6.4.3 release |Inherited From OOo

--- Comment #4 from Jorendc jore...@libreoffice.org ---
(In reply to comment #0)
 I am not sure if it is a real bug (maybe it is just a feature) but it is
 really user UNfriendly mainly in huge document.

I can't agree more. Lets make an enhancement request of this. I can see the
use-case of _NOT_ updating it too... But I think it's more needed then
non-needed.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

Jorendc jore...@libreoffice.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 QA Contact||jore...@libreoffice.org

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

Jorendc jore...@libreoffice.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://issues.apache.org/o
   ||oo/show_bug.cgi?id=44189

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 60232] Possibility to update bibliography references from bibliography database

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60232

--- Comment #5 from Jorendc jore...@libreoffice.org ---
As far I understand the code, and what also is mentioned in the Apache
bug: there is no link between the reference field and bibliography database.

While selecting from bibliography database when creating a new
reference field (insert  indexes and tables  Bibliography entry...),
the entry selector is pulled from the bibliography database over here:
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/sw/source/ui/index/swuiidxmrk.cxx#1331

Since there is no unique ID, there is no link between the reference and
the database, once inserted into the document. Conclusion: there has to
be an _hidden_ unique key. Hidden because users may not change this
unique key manually (and thus break the linkage). To prevent
automatically updating for certain entries, a checkbox needs to be
introduced.

Probably a part of this code
http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/sw/source/ui/fldui/fldmgr.cxx#1528
can be re-used, to update the field. This code is currently used to
modify the reference field
(http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/sw/source/ui/index/swuiidxmrk.cxx#1278)
when you manually edit the reference data inside your document (double
click on the field - edit).

Anyone interested :)?

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