https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70408
Priority: medium
Bug ID: 70408
Assignee: libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
Summary: Feature Request: Lack of Outliner Functionality a Deal
Breaker for Me
Severity: normal
Classification: Unclassified
OS: All
Reporter: couga...@outlook.com
Hardware: Other
Status: UNCONFIRMED
Version: unspecified
Component: Writer
Product: LibreOffice
FIRST: I discussed this problem in the Nabble User's group and received half a
dozen responses from people who support this request. At the end of this
feature request, I'm excerpting it. The entire thread on Nabble has the same
title as this feature request.
----------------------------------------------------
When I was a full-time journalist in the 1980s, I became very successful using
a dedicated outliner called PCOutline. When all the major Word Processers came
along--MS Word, Word Perfect, etc, the lack of outliner functionality kept me
with my archaic outliner until MS Word beat the functionality of PCOutline.
I used outlining as my main method of work when a full-time technical writer in
the 90s (e.g., Fujitsu Software in San Jose). While working for a java house, I
was so influenced by the negative developer reactions to MS, that I've been
wishing to move to OpenOffice or LibraOffice ever since they came along. But
you don't have the functionality that I need, and furthermore, the discussions
of outlining on this forum seem to miss the whole point, from my point of view.
I'm a very motivated wannabe LibraOffice user who currently can't make the
switch, because although I'm retired and writing fiction, the power of an
outliner for writing in all genres is something I can't live without.
So my reasons are complex--sorry about that--but tl:dr will not allow you to
understand them. Please take the time. I really want to quit Microsoft Office
forever and ever and ever. Thanx.
The first functionality I need might seem mickey mouse, but it's the foundation
for everything else. This is that in Word's outliner view, there's a button in
front of every paragraph that I can drag and drop up and down. It's like cut
and paste, but a lot faster. Combined with other features, it's extremely
powerful.
The second functionality I need is to be able to collapse things. In an article
of 25 paragraphs, I can hide every line except the first line of the paragraph,
thus allowing me to see the entire article of 25 paragraphs on the screen at
the same time. This allows me to completely rearrange the entire article by
drop and drag.
For editing a single sentence or paragraph, I insert a return between
sentences, phrases, and even words, drop and drag these elements into a new
order, and delete the returns. Voila! A much better constructed paragraph or
sentence in a snap.
The third functionality is to collapse things within headers. For instance, if
I've interviewed a dozen people for an article or if I've brainstormed 5 pages
of random ideas for a blog or a chapter in a novel, I create headers for
different topics and then drag and drop paragraphs, quotes, ideas, etc into the
headers or buckets I've created. When one header becomes too full and fills too
much of the screen, I collapse it, so that it hides all the paragraphs already
there, which cleans up the screen. When I'm done with this step, I have half a
dozen headers, under which are many different ideas, all of which are
completely hidden.
So I drag and drop my half a dozen headers into the correct order. Then I open
the first main header and create a bunch of subheaders. Once this is done, I
reorganize all of the points in this first section into subsections or
sub-buckets, collapsing them all as needed until everything is organized into a
number of different subheaders. At this point, I can rearrange all of these
subheaders into the best order that they belong in. I can even drag a subheader
into a different main heading if I choose, where it will remain as a separate
section.
I can repeat this process as many levels as I wish. This feature in MS Word is
fractal to nine levels. From a chaotic mixture of confusion emerges order,
insight, and wisdom--in one single step.
As a technical writer, I used to sit in a brainstorming meetings, write down
every developer idea as fast as I could (including those I didn't understand at
all), type it all sequentially, and then very quickly organize all of the ideas
into a coherent whole. The developers thought I actually knew how to program.
(Mwah-hah-hah!)
I could never have done that with LibreOffice as it's now configured or
OpenOffice, either. Without my Word outliner, I would have been a shitty
technical writer, and I would never have been able to write the developer
guides I wrote.
As a creative writer today, I currently have a dozen projects that are
percolating, as well as one major project that I'm focusing on. I just
brainstorm for anything that comes up, drag the ideas into the proper buckets,
and I never lose anything of value. (Yes, the word "never" is absolutely
accurate.)
It's like having a Super Power that's available to everyone, but no one knows
how to get it. Currently, this Super Power is only available in MS Word. Please
make it possible for me to migrate to LibreOffice without losing my Super
Powers. And please make these Super Powers available to the world. Doing so
could cause the entire planet to evolve into better writers. You can help
eliminate crappy writing!
Until you do this, LibreOffice is like Kryptonite to me. I can't come near it,
even though I truly want to.
I beg of you: Please help poor little Cougar quit his addiction to Micro$oft!
(Yeah, I know. Outliners do not eliminate the scourge of mixed metaphors.)
For those of you who made it this far, thanx for listening.
Cougar
-------------------Selected Responses---------------------------
Eric Beversluis
Oct 10, 2013; 3:44pm
Re: Feature Request: Lack of Outliner Functionality a Deal Breaker for Me
I've been using opml editor (on Windows, unfortunately) which seems to
do all these things. Once stuff is in place it can be copied and pasted
into a LO document, I believe. I've even been able to do a bit in Text
Pad with indents and then copying it into the opml editor creates a good
outline. I think Scrivener is based on opml and has all of the
functionality you mention. There seems to be a beta version of Scrivener
for Linux; it's well established for Windows and Mac; and I think once
the outlining is done the finished document exports to LO or M$ Word.
---------------------------------------------------------------
krackedpress
Oct 10, 2013; 3:50pm
Re: Feature Request: Lack of Outliner Functionality a Deal Breaker for Me
I am not a Macro person, but I wonder how much of this can be done with
Macros.
I know one book writer that does a great deal of his work through macros
he created over the years. He could not find any word processor package
that did what he wanted so he learned to write macros. First with Star
Office, then OOo, and now using LO on his Linux system. I do not
remember all of the things he wrote about in his "author's notes" before
he got into his e-newsletter, but one time he did talk about all of the
things he needed to be done and went out to find a package that could do
it through the macros. The last "author's notes" was about getting OOo
running on a new Linux system. That was when it was in the late 1.x
stage or early 2.x one. Just about 2 years ago, I found out he switched
to LO. He no longer writes/co-writes 4 to 6 books a year, but he still
does a few, now that he is in his late 70's.
So
Those who are really good at writing Macros, how much of the info below
can be taken care of through some type of macros?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Nino
Oct 11, 2013; 1:40am
Re: Feature Request: Lack of Outliner Functionality a Deal Breaker for Me
In reply to this post by CougarB
Am 11.10.2013 00:09, schrieb CougarB:
> It's like having a Super Power that's available to everyone, but no one
> knows how to get it.
Without being a writer myself, I somehow understand your needs.
What I do presently is using a mind mapping software (I use freemind[1]
for that) for arranging and rearranging stuff. This works quite to my
satisfaction but when finished, the whole composition has to be
transferred to LibreOffice: this also works quite well but then it
remains static from this point on. So if I want to re-arrange it, I have
to do it again in freemind.
It's a workaround.
Nino
[1] http://freemind.sourceforge.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The other posts were generally supportive, including posts that recommended
that I re-post the feature request to Bugzilla.
Cougar
--
You are receiving this mail because:
You are the assignee for the bug.
_______________________________________________
Libreoffice-bugs mailing list
Libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-bugs
