[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

Commit Notification  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard|| target:5.2.0

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #12 from Commit Notification 
 ---
Eike Rathke committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=db1e34aecd4290623a74b9bbeb602e072b1a49ec

add RAWSUBTRACT spreadsheet function, tdf#71459

It will be available in 5.2.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #13 from Commit Notification 
 ---
Eike Rathke committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=4eea9f214682008052424479a4b1f8cf90a79132

handle varargs with first required and subsequent optional, tdf#71459 related

It will be available in 5.2.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

Eike Rathke  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
   Hardware|Other   |All
Version|4.0.2.2 release |Inherited From OOo
 Resolution|--- |FIXED
   Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |er...@redhat.com
   |desktop.org |
   Severity|normal  |enhancement

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #11 from mwelin...@gmail.com ---
Latest I have access to is LibreOffice 4.2.7.2 420m0(Build:2)

The main bug -- lack of raw way to subtract two numbers -- still occurs.
There is next to no chance that it has been fixed between 4.2.7.2 and HEAD
by someone unaware of this bug.

The sideshow -- COMBIN -- still has all the issues in my version.  It is,
however, immaterial for the purpose of this bug.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #10 from QA Administrators qa-ad...@libreoffice.org ---
** Please read this message in its entirety before responding **

To make sure we're focusing on the bugs that affect our users today,
LibreOffice QA is asking bug reporters and confirmers to retest open, confirmed
bugs which have not been touched for over a year.

There have been thousands of bug fixes and commits since anyone checked on this
bug report. During that time, it's possible that the bug has been fixed, or the
details of the problem have changed. We'd really appreciate your help in
getting confirmation that the bug is still present.

If you have time, please do the following:

   *Test to see if the bug is still present on a currently supported version of
LibreOffice (4.4.1 or later)
   https://www.libreoffice.org/download/

   *If the bug is present, please leave a comment that includes the version of
LibreOffice and your operating system, and any changes you see in the bug
behavior

   *If the bug is NOT present, please set the bug's Status field to
RESOLVED-WORKSFORME and leave a short comment that includes your version of
LibreOffice and Operating System

Please DO NOT

   *Update the version field
   *Reply via email (please reply directly on the bug tracker)
   *Set the bug's Status field to RESOLVED - FIXED (this status has a
particular meaning that is not appropriate in this case)


If you want to do more to help you can test to see if your issue is a
REGRESSION. To do so: 

1. Download and install oldest version of LibreOffice (usually 3.3 unless your
bug pertains to a feature added after 3.3)

http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/

2. Test your bug 
3. Leave a comment with your results. 
4a. If the bug was present with 3.3 - set version to inherited from OOo; 
4b. If the bug was not present in 3.3 - add regression to keyword


Feel free to come ask questions or to say hello in our QA chat:
http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=libreoffice-qa

Thank you for your help!

-- The LibreOffice QA Team This NEW Message was generated on: 2015-04-18

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #7 from Dominique Boutry dominique.bout...@laposte.net ---
OK, I accept the lesson on how to compute COMBIN...

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

Michael Meeks michael.me...@collabora.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #8 from Michael Meeks michael.me...@collabora.com ---
So - I'm sure Morten knows what he is doing better than I do =) I'll confirm
the bug.

Morten - just to get a handle on what you're saying it -sounds- like you're
concern is that you (somewhat unusually) want to see the floating point
artifacts in cells, whereas the majority of the world don't ;-) is that a fair
summary ? [ and you'd like some way to turn that off ].

Of course, if Excel provides a way to avoid that, it's interesting in itself;
my hope would be that this would be a number formatting issue and there would
be no underlying loss of precision.

Patches to improve COMBIN much appreciated too ;-)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #9 from M Welinder te...@gnome.org ---
 Morten - just to get a handle on what you're saying it -sounds- like you're
 concern is that you (somewhat unusually) want to see the floating point
 artifacts in cells, whereas the majority of the world don't ;-) is that a
 fair summary ? [ and you'd like some way to turn that off ].

Very close.  I don't need it all over, just in one single place.
A function RAWSUBTRACT might be that place.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #4 from Dominique Boutry dominique.bout...@laposte.net ---
The spreadsheets calculate and store numbers with the greater precision offered
by the computer technology :
- Floating mantissa 52 bits precise to 1.0E-16 (approx : 52/10 * 3 = ~ 16)
- Other technics (probable : 64-bit integers acting as numerator and
denominator of a fractional number) 
- Perhaps still others, at the discretion of the implementers , as long as it
allows a greater precision.

Finite precision is observable in the following expression :
= 1 + 1 - 1 , which is evaluated as 0 ,
not 1.

Integer storage of integers up to 1 is garanteed accurate. But
there is no warranty that intermediate results don't show integer overflows,
so intuitive use of integers is rapidly inappropriate.

The COMBIN function ( a; b ​​) is difficult to implement :
- Implement it as FACTDOUBLE = (a) / FACTDOUBLE (b) is too restrictive given
the loss of accuracy of FACTDOUBLE from 27,
- Move to floating numbers is not surprising , and introduce the loss of
relative accuracy of 1.0E-16 on input calculation arguments, totaling here
1.0E-13 on output calculation :
COMBIN (15;9) + 1 - 5005 evaluates to 1.9100

It belongs to the application developer EXCEL / LibO Calc developer to design a
digitally correct application and to avoid sequences that make significant
some bits located in the error area at mantissa end. It is impossible to track
back the evolution of the numeric error along the calculations.
Programmers take into account that for 40 years in calculation which led us to
the moon ;-)
Best solution here : = ROUND ( COMBIN ( 15;9 ) ) + 1 - 5005

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #5 from M Welinder te...@gnome.org ---
Guys, stop defending what LO currently does.  It's just plain silly.
Take a look at this...

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/sc/source/core/tool/interpr3.cxx#n448

...from which we learn:

1. Enter =COMBIN(1e15,1e15-1) and LO will hang for ages.  For slightly
   higher numbers k--; won't change the value of k, so that will be
   an infinite loop.

2. Whoever wrote this didn't know the basics of combinatorics.  Notably
   COMBIN(n,k) = COMBIN(n,n-k).  I.e, for efficiency, replace k by n-k
   if the latter is smaller.

3. The code is doing the divisions in the wrong order.  Here's what it does
   for COMBIN(15,6):

   15*14*13*12*11*10
   -
6* 5* 4* 3* 2* 1

   (as (15/6) * (14/5) * ... * (10/1) -- note the parentheses.  Some of
   these fractions have rounding errors.)  Other than the wrong order of
   operations, that's not too bad way to compute this.  However, it
   should have been doing

   15*14*13*12*11*10
   -
1* 2* 3* 4* 5* 6

   (as 15/1*14/2*13/3...*10/6 -- note the lack of parentheses, so the
   multiplication comes before the division in each step.)

   Doing things this way means that all numbers stay integers.  There
   will not be any rounding errors unless the final answer is (much)
   more than 2^53.  In the C(15,6)=C(15,9) case, all numbers would fit
   comfortably in a 16-bit integer.

   To prevent a hang for C(2^53,2^52), one should check for overflow.


But again, COMBIN is a sideshow here.  The real issue is the lack of on
honest subtraction.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

Markus Mohrhard markus.mohrh...@googlemail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|markus.mohrhard@googlemail. |
   |com |

--- Comment #6 from Markus Mohrhard markus.mohrh...@googlemail.com ---
Please leave out of this discussion.

There are good reasons for our floating point behavior and I don't want to get
the 100th time into the same discussion.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #1 from GerardF gerard.farg...@orange.fr ---
Created attachment 88997
  -- https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=88997action=edit
test for COMBIN

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

GerardF gerard.farg...@orange.fr changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||gerard.farg...@orange.fr

--- Comment #2 from GerardF gerard.farg...@orange.fr ---
(In reply to comment #0)
 A1=COMBIN(15,9)
 A2=5005
 A3=A1-A2
 
 This produces a zero in A3, which would be correct if COMBIN actually
 worked and produced 5005.  COMBIN doesn't, so 0 is wrong.

COMBIN(15;9) works for me with 4.1.3 and 4.2.0 alpha.
See above attached PNG.
Including some substract operations.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 71459] No easy way to subtract two numbers (without snap-to-zero)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71459

--- Comment #3 from M Welinder te...@gnome.org ---
The screenshot in attachment 88997 clearly shows the COMBIN problem in A4.
If the result in A1 really was 5005 then A4 would be zero.

The actual value in A1 is something like 5005+9e-13 and cells A3, A5,
and A6 show LO trying hard to conceal it.

But fixing COMBIN isn't the point here.  The ability to access and
subtract the actual number in cells A1 and A2 is.

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