[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89608

--- Comment #31 from Paul  ---
To add to that: of course, a setting for all entries is not mutually exclusive
with the original proposal here. If one wanted finer granularity one could go
to the Entries tab and dial it in, either in lieu of enabling the all entries
setting, or after enabling it.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #30 from Paul  ---
The mock-up in an early comment is truly great design.

Just to state my needs, however, they are much simpler than even that. All I
would need is a simple check box "Make entries clickable" that would pertain to
all entry levels, and that would be it. I personally cannot envision a
circumstance where I would want some level of entries clickable, and others
not. That's just me, but I suspect there are many who feel the same way, and
the simplicity of it would be a huge plus, rather than having to fight the
dialog every time.

I also would find it very helpful if there were a way to incorporate
clickability programmatically, that is, via basic macro, whether for the whole
Index or for a specific entry level. I have done a bunch of asking around, and
have looked into the user index attributes via the MRI extension, and have not
found a hook to program with.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89608

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||7160

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89608

Yousuf (Jay) Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsDevEval, topicUI
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |
   |.freedesktop.org|
  Component|ux-advise   |Writer

--- Comment #29 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
(In reply to kompilainenn from comment #28)
> Yousuf, work over new tab Entries was ended?

The work is still pending and is one of the GSoC projects.
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas#Table_of_Contents:_Entries_tab

> ps: see bug 85814 =(

UI font size is always an issue. :D

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89608

kompilainenn <79045_79...@mail.ru> changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||79045_79...@mail.ru

--- Comment #28 from kompilainenn <79045_79...@mail.ru> ---
Yousuf, work over new tab Entries was ended?

ps: see bug 85814 =(

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89608

mahfiaz mahf...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||ad...@dreamcoder.org

--- Comment #27 from mahfiaz mahf...@gmail.com ---
*** Bug 73160 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89608

--- Comment #25 from Stephan van den Akker stephanv...@gmail.com ---
@Cor (comment 22)

The discussion about the button was started by me in the comments thread of:

http://user-prompt.com/libreoffice-design-session-entries-at-indexes-and-tables

I agree that the Paragraph Style drop-down should be disabled when all
levels are selected.

@Jay (comment 23)

I see your point. However, what is to stop a user from selecting all levels
after he has made his changes to the entries? As long as this action doesn't
reset his changes, nothing of his work is lost. 

Another question is: How does an inexperienced user know there is an all
levels selection? It is hidden in the drop-down. Is there a solution
possible for that?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89608

--- Comment #26 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
@Stephen: Well my comment was made with the assumption that all levels wasnt
an entry in the drop down list. If the all levels entry is included in the
drop down list, then it should be the first entry and preselected by default.
But even with the all levels entry available, there will be situations where
the entries in a single modified level would want to be applied to all the
levels, so the button would always have a reason to exist.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #23 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #21)
 Stephan spotted another problem with the dialog: the 'apply to all' button.
 The best solution here is to remove this button completely and to add an
 entry in the levels dropdown. So users have to select either a particular
 item ('hierarchy level' called in the latest mockup, but depending on the
 chosen type on the first tab) or to select 'all levels' here (should be the
 first item).

Cant say that i agree with this approach, as a user will likely be on whatever
level is set when they enter the tab and then jump to the entries section to
make the changes he/she wants and then want to apply that change to other
levels.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #24 from Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl ---
(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #23)

 Cant say that i agree with this approach, ...

Hey you, why jumping in with (dis)agreement immediately :) Ask some smart
questions first ;) 
(no pun intended, just couldn't resist...)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #20 from Stephan van den Akker stephanv...@gmail.com ---
Talked it over with a user who up to now has had a lot trouble understanding
the present dailog. He thinks the mockup is a big improvement!

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #21 from Heiko Tietze heiko.tie...@user-prompt.com ---
Stephan spotted another problem with the dialog: the 'apply to all' button. The
best solution here is to remove this button completely and to add an entry in
the levels dropdown. So users have to select either a particular item
('hierarchy level' called in the latest mockup, but depending on the chosen
type on the first tab) or to select 'all levels' here (should be the first
item).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #22 from Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #21)
 Stephan spotted another problem with the dialog: the 'apply to all' button.

And that is what?

 The best solution here is to remove this button completely and to add an
 entry in the levels dropdown. So users have to select either a particular
 item ('hierarchy level' called in the latest mockup, but depending on the
 chosen type on the first tab) or to select 'all levels' here (should be the
 first item).

If so, the 'Paragraph style' must be de-activated if 'all levels' is chosen.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #19 from Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl ---
thanks Jay and Heiko! Looks really good.

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--- Comment #18 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Created attachment 114138
  -- https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=114138action=edit
gdocs mockup

Heiko and I went through and fixed up the mockup with the suggestions and
comments that have come in since the original session and full details are in
the google doc and i'm attaching the mockup to the bug report.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #17 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #15)
 I'm not sure about it. Currently there are two concepts. One with only
 buttons to build the entries-structure-line (used by TOC and Indexes) and
 the other with drop-down selection list and insert/remove buttons (used by
 Bibliography). Is it worth to unify it? And who will do it?

We discussed the issues you brought up in last wednesday's design meeting and
the mockup will be utilized in the various index/table types that it works
correctly with.

Looking at the structure of the bibliography entries tab, the mockup would also
work fine, as the 'Add' button contains a list of entries that can be added, so
it would have the same entries found in the drop-down selection list in
bibliography.

 For Bibliography the preview window exist, but does not show an example of
 the entries-structure.

Well that should be filed as another bug if it isnt already. :D

(In reply to Owen Genat from comment #16)
 ... that TAB stops are likely to be handled via the character style in the
 new mockup. Does anyone know how this will impact bug 32360 and bug 87523?
 Each relates to alignment problems with the current dialog. Is it worth
 adding these to the See Also list?

The new mockup doesnt change this aspect of the dialog. Currently, when you
click on a tab stop, you are given four fields - character style, fill
character, tab stop position, align right - which control the look of the
spacing between the entry and the page number.

 A warm thankyou to Jay, Heiko, and the Design team for your work on this.
 Seems like a worthy improvement even if there are still some issues to
 untangle.

Thank Owen. Most things have been untangled now, so all that is necessary is a
developer to turn this into reality.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89608

--- Comment #16 from Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com ---
I notice in the comments to the related blog post:

http://user-prompt.com/libreoffice-design-session-entries-at-indexes-and-tables/

... that TAB stops are likely to be handled via the character style in the new
mockup. Does anyone know how this will impact bug 32360 and bug 87523? Each
relates to alignment problems with the current dialog. Is it worth adding these
to the See Also list?

A warm thankyou to Jay, Heiko, and the Design team for your work on this. Seems
like a worthy improvement even if there are still some issues to untangle.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #15 from Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #14)
 Do you think we should redesign the complete dialog?
 Small steps or the big fish?

I'm not sure about it. Currently there are two concepts. One with only buttons
to build the entries-structure-line (used by TOC and Indexes) and the other
with drop-down selection list and insert/remove buttons (used by Bibliography).
Is it worth to unify it? And who will do it?

(In reply to Jay Philips from comment #3)
 Well if preview is open, which it is by default, you'll see it visually. :D

For Bibliography the preview window exist, but does not show an example of the
entries-structure.

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--- Comment #14 from Heiko Tietze heiko.tie...@user-prompt.com ---
We talked about the scope and as stated on G+ doc the redesign is for the tab
'Entries' only. All other content should remain as it is, for now.
But I have to admit that at least I wasn't considering the index type. The
interaction is awful. Do you think we should redesign the complete dialog?
Small steps or the big fish?

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--- Comment #11 from Heiko Tietze heiko.tie...@user-prompt.com ---
Regina, if you think 'Heading Text' is not appropriate (sorry for missing
that), what would you suggest? I think that 'Heading Text' and 'Annotation
Text' works well in their own tab.

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--- Comment #10 from Heiko Tietze heiko.tie...@user-prompt.com ---
Well spotted. I updated the mockup
* changed 'Text Entry' to 'Heading Text'
* added the item 'User Text value'
* added the grouping title 'Hierarchy'
* changed 'Level' to 'Level in TOC' (for clarification and to fit the the text
length below; it would be better to have another group label and use 'Hierarchy
Level' here)

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--- Comment #13 from Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de ---
Before trying to find better wording and better design, you have to decide,
whether this dialog has to be used for all kind of indexes (as it is now), or
whether each kind of index will get its own dialog. Please keep in mind, that
currently the dialog is used not only for TOC, but for Alphabetical Index,
Illustration Index, Index of Tables, User-Defined Index, Table of
Objects, and Bibliography as well.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 89608] TOC: Redesign of the Entries tab of the Index/Table dialog

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--- Comment #12 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
* Its best to keep the original labeling of Entry Text over Heading Text
* User Text seems fine
* 'Level in TOC' isnt good as the label as it wouldnt be abbreviated in other
languages

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--- Comment #9 from Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de ---
The same dialog is used for indexes as well, and e.g. for an Alphabetical Index
the wording Heading Text does not fit. You will need individual texts for
each kind of use of the dialog, when you will replace the generic E. I don't
know the effort to implement such.

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--- Comment #8 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #7)
 It is confusing to have both Entry Text and Text Entry.

Yes it was confusing, which is why i had proposed to have it to 'Heading Text'
and 'Text Entry' in yesterday's meeting. What do others think?

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--- Comment #6 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
We had design session about this dialog and the details can be found at this
google doc -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dhaaV2Q5XFXK0-m-y2wYq5tKjIX_YRTMEKDXPslskUw/edit?usp=sharing

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--- Comment #5 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Created attachment 113931
  -- https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=113931action=edit
mockup 2

Here is the second mockup that i've been working on. Sophie mentioned that it
was possible to add regular text as an entry, so it was also added to the
mockup.

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Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||rb.hensc...@t-online.de

--- Comment #7 from Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de ---
It is confusing to have both Entry Text and Text Entry.

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A (Andy) stgohi-lob...@yahoo.de changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||stgohi-lob...@yahoo.de

--- Comment #4 from A (Andy) stgohi-lob...@yahoo.de ---
For me this mockup is from the layout standpoint already a great proposal. 
With it this dialog box would no longer be that cryptical as currently.

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--- Comment #1 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Created attachment 113635
  -- https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=113635action=edit
mockup

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Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #3 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #2)
 Much better :)
 
 First remarks:
  - a horizontal (natural) visualization maybe on top or below the list?

Well if preview is open, which it is by default, you'll see it visually. :D

  - not all actions (up/down) are valid on all entries, obviously.

Well that would need to be taken into consideration when the developer programs
it in, just like some of the buttons are currently disabled (e.g. Page No.).

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