[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||rafael.palma.l...@gmail.com

--- Comment #26 from Timur  ---
*** Bug 149779 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Timur  changed:

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 CC||ti...@libreoffice.org
   Priority|medium  |high

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14
   ||6291

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14
   ||5967

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

--- Comment #25 from kelln...@earthlink.net  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #22)
> (In reply to kelln...@earthlink.net from comment #21)
> > The user needs to be
> > alerted when the file is opened that font(s) have been substituted and
> > where. 
> 
> The first image notifies the user. Somewhere below we make a proposal on the
> substitution.
> 
> > A list of substitutions in the options is not going to give the user
> > the necessary visibility into what is happening to the document and what and
> > where in the document appearance is affected. 
> 
> Please elaborate how you would deal with the detailed information.

The two pieces of information a user would need in the event that a font has
been substituted are what the old font was and where in the document said
substitution occurred. 

Knowing where the substitution occurred I think would be doable in a similar
way to revealing other hidden information to users, e.g., turn on some kind of
changed font highlighting similar to what is done for fields and paragraph
marks, etc. Once the user knows where the substituted fonts are then placing
the cursor on them would reveal what font was substituted.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||brittain.stephenson@gmail.c
   ||om

--- Comment #24 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 146123 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||sebastian.zschernig@hoga-sc
   ||hulen.de

--- Comment #23 from V Stuart Foote  ---
*** Bug 128025 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

--- Comment #22 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to kelln...@earthlink.net from comment #21)
> The user needs to be
> alerted when the file is opened that font(s) have been substituted and
> where. 

The first image notifies the user. Somewhere below we make a proposal on the
substitution.

> A list of substitutions in the options is not going to give the user
> the necessary visibility into what is happening to the document and what and
> where in the document appearance is affected. 

Please elaborate how you would deal with the detailed information.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10
   ||4667

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

--- Comment #21 from kelln...@earthlink.net  ---
The blog post doesn't really deal with the issue reported here. 

Since odt is a document standard that at least one other software can originate
there are many scenarios that can happen not under the user's control either as
the originator of the document or as a recipient. 

The creator can have created a document on software X either currently or long
in the past. That document can have fonts r,s,t in in it.

The document can be currently or in the future opened on another machine with
software Y and fonts r,s but not t. Software Y can substitute a font for t,
let's say font m. This may or may not allow the document to visually appear the
same or the layout to be effectively the same. Visually appearing essentially
the same is a critical issue (the reason why pdf was invented). 

If the document is in an edit cycle between users, fonts can be conceivably be
changed repeatedly and not under anybody's control.

If the document was distributed to a number of viewers each viewer could
potentially see the document differently because they open it with different
software on systems with different fonts.

But we are here talking just about LibreOffice which may or may not have
created the document which may be current or legacy. The user needs to be
alerted when the file is opened that font(s) have been substituted and where. A
list of substitutions in the options is not going to give the user the
necessary visibility into what is happening to the document and what and where
in the document appearance is affected. 

What in LibreOffice would give the user a superior view into what is happening
in the opened document(s)? Is this a document control issue as well as a font
control issue?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Ahiijny  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10
   ||0900

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

--- Comment #20 from V Stuart Foote  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #19)
> Proposal has been mad in this blog post
> https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2018/02/18/improvements-font-
> listing/. 
> 
> Removing UX to attract devs.

Actually that was the font listing portion, improving the font
fallback/substitution was this blog (and bug 104667)

https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/10/21/dealing-with-missing-fonts/

But that is ready to move forward with dev effort as well...

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |tietze.he...@gmail.com
   |.freedesktop.org|
   Keywords|needsUXEval |

--- Comment #19 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Proposal has been mad in this blog post
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2018/02/18/improvements-font-listing/.
 

Removing UX to attract devs.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted ( see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||nurcan...@gmail.com

--- Comment #18 from Heiko Tietze  ---
*** Bug 114650 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted ( see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||qu...@runcibility.com

--- Comment #17 from Heiko Tietze  ---
*** Bug 88438 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted ( see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=88
   ||438

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted ( see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

--- Comment #16 from kelln...@earthlink.net  ---
One thing that the developer needs to bear in mind is that when a font
substitution is made is that the person opening the document may not be the
person who created the document and may not be using a system at all similar to
the system that created the document.The ultimate goal when re-opening the
document is to have it appear as it did when created.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted ( see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||103342


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103342
[Bug 103342] [META] Font substitution bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted ( see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||102985


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102985
[Bug 102985] [META] Font bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted ( see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Aron Budea  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10
   ||0309

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64
   ||509

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Yousuf (Jay) Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsDevEval, topicUI
 CC||momonas...@gmail.com,
   ||samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de

--- Comment #14 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #7)
> Agreed, italic font is not salient enough.

As the default look of the text in the combobox is normal and black, maybe a
suitable change would be for it to be italic and red. Possibly even adding bold
or bold without italics.

> How about an icon next to the font name perhaps a red exclamation mark?

Dont think this would be suitable and also think it would be difficult to add
an icon to the standard combobox control. @Samuel, Maxim: Any input on this?

> I wouldn't color the background of this combobox since it draws too much 
> attention to the control.

Totally agree.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

Yousuf (Jay) Philips  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|filter:fodt |
 CC||philip...@hotmail.com
   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78
   ||186
   Severity|normal  |enhancement

--- Comment #13 from Yousuf (Jay) Philips  ---
(In reply to kelln...@earthlink.net from comment #10)
> The obvious solution to me is that when opening a file where a font cannot
> be provided locally where needed, a popup should appear with a message like:
> 
> Danger Will Robinson, the necessary fonts are not present on this machine to
> display it as last saved and a substitution will take place. Please install
> font(s) xxx to guarantee the documents formatting remains as intended.

I've suggested this be shown as an infobar in bug 78186.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 96872] Make it more obvious that a font has been substituted (see comment 12)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96872

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Make it more obvious that a |Make it more obvious that a
   |font has been substituted   |font has been substituted
   ||(see comment 12)

--- Comment #12 from V Stuart Foote  ---
To resolve this a more *obvious* visual indication of the errant fontname in
the combobox list is needed. Something more than simply applying italicized
effect in system/desktop UI default font to the unresolved fontname.

Possible options:

1. set a background color (yellow?) for the errant fontname as listed in
combobox

2. add an alert icon (red exclamation, yellow triangle?) prepended to the
fontname as listed in combobox

3. if applying background color, or inserting an alert graphic to tag a single
combobox list item is not possible--then something more than fontname in
italics would be needed. So, simply modify the string for the errant fontname
and enclose it in visual brackets. Perhaps double-square or braces.


=-Discussion-=

To resolve bug 50189, at 4.0.1 the Toolbox controls were modified *[1][2] to
test fontnames as either known or unknown--present on system or embedded in
document, or not--and list in combobox. System fonts are obviously know, so
these would be as provided from a paragraph or character style in ODF or other
import stream. Fonts not installed, or misnamed in the imported document
required some indication that the style was not valid.

When known they are rendered in the combobox with system/desktop UI default
font, or when "Show preview of fonts" (EnableFontWYSIWYG) is enabled, the
fontname is rendered using the specific font.

But, when unknown fonts are named in the paragraph and character styles of the
opened/imported document the fontname is listed in the combobox with
system/desktop UI default font and is given an italicized effect. Likewise when
EnableFontWYSIWYG is set, the fontname remains system/desktop UI default
italicized.  

Also when the font is unknown the Tooltip (basic, or extended) is altered and
reads "Font Name, The current font is not available and will be substituted"

This is functional but has two flaws:

1. that of bug 61134 enhancement--it is very helpful to know what font is being
substituted for the unresolved fontname. So, provide that additional detail in
tooltip, but possibly also in the character dialog (additionally need ability
to search/select for the substituted text--that needs its own write up).

2. the issue here, is that indication in the UI of an unresolved fontname
imported from the document styles is too subtle. It needs to be more *obvious*,
both visual and as the tooltip (to support our Assistive Technology aspect).



=-refs-=
*[1]
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-4-0-1=0376a4c13ccffa64c938c6361a337264ad8f2b67

*[2]
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?h=libreoffice-4-0-1=17d86df23e7be3ab0a161f69ff0f703728e0e135

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