[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

Eyal Rozenberg  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15
   ||0481

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Eyal Rozenberg  changed:

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   See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15 |
   |0481|

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Eyal Rozenberg  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15
   ||0481

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Eyal Rozenberg  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
   ||3538

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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Eyal Rozenberg  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||150481


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=150481
[Bug 150481] Set default fonts for Arabic
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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--- Comment #34 from خالد حسني  ---
(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #33)
> (Either that or we can open a separate bug for the defaults.)

I think a separate bug for the defaults should be ideal, as this is independent
of what fonts to bundle or not.

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--- Comment #33 from Eyal Rozenberg  ---
(Either that or we can open a separate bug for the defaults.)

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--- Comment #32 from Eyal Rozenberg  ---
(In reply to خالد حسني from comment #31)
> I think we have enough bundled Arabic fonts, and I don’t think we need to
> change the default fonts if no one is complaining.

This was left open because of the ordering of the fonts.

When we chose the default combination for Hebrew, quite a bit of work went into
that - preparing a document with samples and discussing it in the LO Hebrew
Telegram channel. We should do the same for Arabic. I realize this is partly
our (= QA people)'s responsibility for not doing it so far, but I still ask
that this be left open and that we have the discussion.

If only LO Arabic was a little more active... :-(

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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خالد حسني  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #31 from خالد حسني  ---
I think we have enough bundled Arabic fonts, and I don’t think we need to
change the default fonts if no one is complaining.

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--- Comment #30 from aman...@outlook.com ---
Any progress on this?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532
Bug 113532 depends on bug 115226, which changed state.

Bug 115226 Summary: Update bundled Amiri to 0.111
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115226

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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--- Comment #29 from Yousuf Philips (jay) (retired)  ---
(In reply to Eike Rathke from comment #28)
> I guess we can close this as resolved fixed now?

The reordering of default fonts still is pending, see comment 24.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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--- Comment #28 from Eike Rathke  ---
I guess we can close this as resolved fixed now?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks|115226  |
 Depends on||115226


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115226
[Bug 115226] Update bundled Amiri to 0.111
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

Volga  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||115226


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115226
[Bug 115226] Update bundled Amiri to 0.111
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

Commit Notification  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard|target:6.1.0 target:6.0.1   |target:6.1.0 target:6.0.1
   ||target:6.0.0

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #27 from Commit Notification 
 ---
Yousuf Philips committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-6-0-0":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=539e2efa4e6ef82a1a5e9d58cd36a616c73546fc=libreoffice-6-0-0

tdf#113532 Add Arabic fonts into default installation

It will be available in 6.0.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #26 from Commit Notification 
 ---
Yousuf Philips committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "libreoffice-6-0":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=26c4a36cad9aca8e07abcbfeddf744ae112a4bc0=libreoffice-6-0

tdf#113532 Add Arabic fonts into default installation

It will be available in 6.0.1.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

Commit Notification  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard|target:6.1.0|target:6.1.0 target:6.0.1

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||114750


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114750
[Bug 114750] [META] Locale preferred fonts bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #25 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Created attachment 138582
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=138582=edit
various heading and text body combinations

In writer, we have to select which font to use for headings and which one for
text body. In English and Hebrew, they default to a Sans font for headings and
a serif font for text body, which does make it easier to identify. I'm thinking
that going with Noto Naskh or Noto Kufi for headings and Amiri, KacstBook or
KacstOffice for text body.

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--- Comment #24 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Created attachment 138580
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=138580=edit
default sans font selection

No that the bundled arabic fonts are finished, we can now look at what should
be the default font used in writer for headings and body text, and what should
be the default font used in calc, impress, and draw.

In the attachment, we have a selection of fonts that can be used as the default
font for calc, impress and draw. I had chosen Noto Naskh Arabic previously but
then Noto Sans Arabic was released in October and feel that is the better font,
as it is a Sans font that looks similar to both our current default Tahoma and
the fallback DejaVu Sans.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #23 from Commit Notification 
 ---
Yousuf Philips committed a patch related to this issue.
It has been pushed to "master":

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=4eaeb8058d75d03e782d37b430b68890aa374f2c

tdf#113532 Add Arabic fonts into default installation

It will be available in 6.1.0.

The patch should be included in the daily builds available at
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/ in the next 24-48 hours. More
information about daily builds can be found at:
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Testing_Daily_Builds

Affected users are encouraged to test the fix and report feedback.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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Commit Notification  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard||target:6.1.0

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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--- Comment #22 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Created attachment 138577
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=138577=edit
arabic monospace fonts

(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #21)
> I'd say don't remove it until there's an actual bug (is there?) - but it's
> not my call.

Well Khaled was the maintainer of the Thabit font before he abandoned it, so he
must know of particular issues in the font that wont be getting fixed.

> Still, which monospace fonts are we left with other than
> Thaabet? Liberation Mono?

Other than Thabit, there is ALM Fixed and Kawab. Speaking with others, Kawab is
more useful to ALM Fixed, so if we had to include one that would the one to go
with, but neither of them are a courier new substitute. Liberation Mono doesnt
have arabic glyphs in it.

ALM Fixed - https://www.ctan.org/pkg/almfixed
Kawab - https://makkuk.com/kawkab-mono/

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--- Comment #21 from Eyal Rozenberg  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #20)
> but anyway, i've removed it from the patch.

I'd say don't remove it until there's an actual bug (is there?) - but it's not
my call. Still, which monospace fonts are we left with other than Thaabet?
Liberation Mono?

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--- Comment #20 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #19)
> By using an abandoned font with not much user base, we are on our own when
> bugs are found in the font (i.e. similar situation as we have now with the
> abandoned Linux Libertine G fonts).

There is no way to know for certain how many users use Thabit, but Debian's
popularity contest statistics does give us some info.

https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=fonts-hosny-thabit

Bugs submitted to LO's bugzilla that are found in fonts are closed as
NOTOURBUG, so i dont see that as a reason to not ship fonts that fill a void
not filled by any other foss font, but anyway, i've removed it from the patch.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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--- Comment #19 from Khaled Hosny  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #18)
> (In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #17)
> > I don’t recommend including Thabit, it is an abandoned font.
> 
> Though it is no longer updated, it is available in the debian repo and would
> be used in arabic documents and is the only available substitute for courier
> new's monospace font, as liberation mono doesnt have arabic characters.

By using an abandoned font with not much user base, we are on our own when bugs
are found in the font (i.e. similar situation as we have now with the abandoned
Linux Libertine G fonts).

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--- Comment #18 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #17)
> I don’t recommend including Thabit, it is an abandoned font.

Though it is no longer updated, it is available in the debian repo and would be
used in arabic documents and is the only available substitute for courier new's
monospace font, as liberation mono doesnt have arabic characters.

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--- Comment #17 from Khaled Hosny  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #16)
> Patch is in - https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/46624/
> 
> The archives can be found here
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pvCiOthbbpjnPyuh9dyHubAkBSbXLaqa
> 
> I pulled the fonts from these sources and trimmed/reorganized some of the
> archives.
> 
> Amiri - https://github.com/alif-type/amiri/releases
> KACST - https://packages.debian.org/stable/fonts-kacst
> Scheherazade - https://software.sil.org/scheherazade/
> Reem Kufi - https://github.com/alif-type/reem-kufi/releases
> Thabit - https://packages.debian.org/stable/fonts-hosny-thabit

I don’t recommend including Thabit, it is an abandoned font.

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--- Comment #16 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Patch is in - https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/46624/

The archives can be found here

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pvCiOthbbpjnPyuh9dyHubAkBSbXLaqa

I pulled the fonts from these sources and trimmed/reorganized some of the
archives.

Amiri - https://github.com/alif-type/amiri/releases
KACST - https://packages.debian.org/stable/fonts-kacst
Scheherazade - https://software.sil.org/scheherazade/
Reem Kufi - https://github.com/alif-type/reem-kufi/releases
Thabit - https://packages.debian.org/stable/fonts-hosny-thabit

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--- Comment #15 from Khaled Hosny  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #12)
> Created attachment 137962 [details]
> DecoType Naskh and Apple Arabic Default

Apple Arabic fonts are AAT not OpenType fonts, so they don’t generally work
outside Apple environments. The one that seem to work are just rendered using
fallback shaping which is limited and requires the font to encode Arabic
Presentation Forms-B compatibility characters.

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--- Comment #14 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
So i'll be tackling the issue of what we should bundle in this comment.

Windows and Mac both provide a calligraphy-styled Naskh font (Arabic
Typesetting, DecoType Naskh), a Kufi font (Andalus, KufiStandard GK), a variety
of regular Naskh fonts, including a default arabic fallback font (Simplified
Arabic/Times New Roman, Geeza Pro). Windows also includes monospace fonts
(Courier New, Simplified Arabic Fixed) and sans fonts (Tahoma, Segoe UI).

So in order to help Windows and Mac users to use open source arabic fonts, as
well as ensure interoperability of documents created on linux with the
available open source arabic fonts, we should bundle

* calligraphy-styled Naskh - Amiri
* traditional-styled Naskh - KACSTOffice, KACSTBook, Scheherazade
* Kufi-style   - Reem Kufi
* mono-space fonts - Ara­bic-Latin Modern Fixed, Thabit
* sans font- Noto Sans Arabic

I've left out fonts from the Arabeyes collection and XB Niloofar based on
Khaled's recommendation of their legal status. I also didnt include Noto/Droid
Kufi and Noto/Droid Naskh in the list as we are already shipping them (bug
103080).

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--- Comment #13 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Created attachment 137972
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=137972=edit
open source arabic fonts grouped based on look/style

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--- Comment #12 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Created attachment 137962
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=137962=edit
DecoType Naskh and Apple Arabic Default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #11 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Created attachment 137961
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=137961=edit
windows arabic fonts

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Attachment #137957|mac OS X hebrew fonts   |mac OS X arabic fonts
description||

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #10 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Created attachment 137957
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=137957=edit
mac OS X hebrew fonts

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #9 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #8)
> That is a rather small sample size, though. There are only 129 votes in that
> poll.

The poll sample size would be small as the Arabic LO users base is small, and
those who use open source fonts in their documents even smaller, and those who
are on twitter and got notice of the 7-day poll would be even smaller.

The poll results dont determine the final decision, that will be taken by the
RTL Arabic team, which of course you are part of, but it simply give us
community input about it, like some suggesting Noto Arabic Naskh.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #8 from Khaled Hosny  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #7)
> Ran a poll on twitter[1] and here are the results from the 129 votes for
> "Which open source font should be used as the default Arabic font for
> documents?"
> 
> Amiri (44%)
> XB Niloofar (24%)
> KACSTOffice (22%)
> Scheherazade (10%)
> 
> [1] https://twitter.com/liboDesign/status/926418319728660480

That is a rather small sample size, though. There are only 129 votes in that
poll.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #7 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Ran a poll on twitter[1] and here are the results from the 129 votes for "Which
open source font should be used as the default Arabic font for documents?"

Amiri (44%)
XB Niloofar (24%)
KACSTOffice (22%)
Scheherazade (10%)

[1] https://twitter.com/liboDesign/status/926418319728660480

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #6 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #5)
> IANAL, but there is no single GPL license, there is version 1, 2 or 3 and
> they are not compatible so you need to know the exact version to know if you
> can distribute it and whether it is compatible with LibreOffice license or
> not.

We used to distribute Liberation fonts that were GPLv2, so it is fine to bundle
it with LO for whatever GPL version is implied, as the GPL doesnt restrict
distribution, else debian wouldn't have them in their repo.

IRC quotes:
 jphilipz: Liberation v1 were GPLv2 licensed AFAIK and we bundled
those, the new Liberation fonts are SIL licensed as they are now a rebased
variant of croscore fonts

mmeeks> jphilipz: prefer not to really - if possible - but much prefer it to
some random non-license

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #5 from Khaled Hosny  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #4)
> (In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #3)
> > The fonts were not accompanied by a LICENSE file, only a copyright notice
> > inside the fonts referring to GPL without specifying a license version. If
> > they were still distributed by KACST hopefully a LICENSE file would be
> > present or some one would answer queries about the license (again, my
> > attempts to clarify this went nowhere).
> 
> It is mentioned in the font description that "KACST holds the copyright of
> the included Arabic font which is donated under GPL by KACST", so as they
> didnt mention which version of the GPL, we shouldn't distribute it?

IANAL, but there is no single GPL license, there is version 1, 2 or 3 and they
are not compatible so you need to know the exact version to know if you can
distribute it and whether it is compatible with LibreOffice license or not.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #4 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
(In reply to Khaled Hosny from comment #3)
> No link. Arabeyes do not design these fonts (I know be cause I used to
> maintain them at some point) and the person who released these fonts under
> GPL never answered my queries about the source of these fonts. Some web
> search should reveal that some of these fonts are still distributed
> elsewhere by their original designers under a non-free license.

Quite unfortunate that this is the case (though i knew you used to maintain
them :D).

> The fonts were not accompanied by a LICENSE file, only a copyright notice
> inside the fonts referring to GPL without specifying a license version. If
> they were still distributed by KACST hopefully a LICENSE file would be
> present or some one would answer queries about the license (again, my
> attempts to clarify this went nowhere).

It is mentioned in the font description that "KACST holds the copyright of the
included Arabic font which is donated under GPL by KACST", so as they didnt
mention which version of the GPL, we shouldn't distribute it?

> There are not that many free Arabic fonts actually, in addition to the
> sources you mentioned there is also Google Fonts:
> https://fonts.google.com/?subset=arabic

Have seen the fonts at google fonts before, do you have any recommendations?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #3 from Khaled Hosny  ---
(In reply to Yousuf Philips (jay) from comment #2)
> Khaled: For Arabeyes fonts, is there some link you can provide that has more
> details of what the fuzzy legal status relates to?

No link. Arabeyes do not design these fonts (I know be cause I used to maintain
them at some point) and the person who released these fonts under GPL never
answered my queries about the source of these fonts. Some web search should
reveal that some of these fonts are still distributed elsewhere by their
original designers under a non-free license.

> For KACST fonts, not sure
> why them not distributing them any longer would results in the GPL license
> of the fonts to be not clear.

The fonts were not accompanied by a LICENSE file, only a copyright notice
inside the fonts referring to GPL without specifying a license version. If they
were still distributed by KACST hopefully a LICENSE file would be present or
some one would answer queries about the license (again, my attempts to clarify
this went nowhere).

> Do you have any recommendations on which open source arabic fonts that you
> think we should bundle?

There are not that many free Arabic fonts actually, in addition to the sources
you mentioned there is also Google Fonts:
https://fonts.google.com/?subset=arabic

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #2 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
Khaled: For Arabeyes fonts, is there some link you can provide that has more
details of what the fuzzy legal status relates to? For KACST fonts, not sure
why them not distributing them any longer would results in the GPL license of
the fonts to be not clear.

Do you have any recommendations on which open source arabic fonts that you
think we should bundle?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

--- Comment #1 from Khaled Hosny  ---
I’d stay away from Arabeyes fonts as their legal status is fuzzy. The KACST
fonts should be OK if KACST is still distributing them, but they don’t and
there exact license terms are not clear.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 113532] Bundle and use open source Arabic fonts by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113532

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

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