[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

Dieter  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||0490

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||kalosand...@hotmail.it

--- Comment #18 from Heiko Tietze  ---
*** Bug 128626 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

Dieter Praas  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12
   ||8626

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

QA Administrators  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Resolution|--- |INSUFFICIENTDATA
 Status|NEEDINFO|RESOLVED

--- Comment #17 from QA Administrators  ---
Dear Bug Submitter,

Please read this message in its entirety before proceeding.

Your bug report is being closed as INSUFFICIENTDATA due to inactivity and
a lack of information which is needed in order to accurately
reproduce and confirm the problem. We encourage you to retest
your bug against the latest release. If the issue is still
present in the latest stable release, we need the following
information (please ignore any that you've already provided):

a) Provide details of your system including your operating
   system and the latest version of LibreOffice that you have
   confirmed the bug to be present

b) Provide easy to reproduce steps – the simpler the better

c) Provide any test case(s) which will help us confirm the problem

d) Provide screenshots of the problem if you think it might help

e) Read all comments and provide any requested information

Once all of this is done, please set the bug back to UNCONFIRMED
and we will attempt to reproduce the issue. Please do not:

a) respond via email 

b) update the version field in the bug or any of the other details
   on the top section of our bug tracker

Warm Regards,
QA Team

MassPing-NeedInfo-20190111

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #16 from QA Administrators  ---
Dear Bug Submitter,

This bug has been in NEEDINFO status with no change for at least
6 months. Please provide the requested information as soon as
possible and mark the bug as UNCONFIRMED. Due to regular bug
tracker maintenance, if the bug is still in NEEDINFO status with
no change in 30 days the QA team will close the bug as INSUFFICIENTDATA
due to lack of needed information.

For more information about our NEEDINFO policy please read the
wiki located here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/Fields/Status/NEEDINFO

If you have already provided the requested information, please
mark the bug as UNCONFIRMED so that the QA team knows that the
bug is ready to be confirmed.

Thank you for helping us make LibreOffice even better for everyone!

Warm Regards,
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MassPing-NeedInfo-Ping-20181203

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

Thomas Lendo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||113396


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113396
[Bug 113396] [META] Single, book and multi-page view bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #15 from Regina Henschel  ---
For adapting content in the header/footer please have a look at the various
Fields. For you especially those, which input content from the standard and
from the user fields of the document properties, might be of interest. Please
consult the Writer Guide and ask on mailing list or forum in case you need help
with all these advanced features of LibreOffice.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #14 from A.Holtsmark  ---
Thank you for this informative post.
I will give it a try later today, but it sounds like it might work.

HOWEVER, it will probably not work well in my very specific case.
I ported the whole document from Word to Writer due to the complex page
numbering scheme I needed to use.
-I have page styles for chapter levels 1 to 3. This results in 3 page styles
-For each of these, I have page styles for whether this page contains
information that is authority approved or not, making it 6 styles.
-Then we had to change from national to European certification authority,
making it 12 styles.
-Finally, for each time the document is edited, there is a new date in the
footer (a part of the page change tracking), adding another set of 12 styles
each time. So far, we have managed to get away with 4 edits. This yields 48
page styles within the document. Now, If I must split each style into a
left-hand and a right-hand style, I will have to manage 96 page styles within
this single document. I fear that the cure will be worse than the disease.

Therefore: While I accept that the solution mentioned above may be a/the
correct solution to this issue, I fear that unless one of the two fixes I
mentioned above is implemented, I will be stuck with my current workaround.

PS: MS Word choked completely on this numbering scheme. Before porting I had to
open the Word document in Writer and re-save as .doc in order to maker Word
open the document without choking. It is definitely not a common type of
document.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

Regina Henschel  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||rb.hensc...@t-online.de

--- Comment #13 from Regina Henschel  ---
(In reply to A.Holtsmark from comment #0)
> Description:
> When working in "book mode" (edit>view>zoom>"zoom and view layout"), libre
> office writer will insert blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page.
> Documentation like operational manuals often have complex page numbering
> like "CHAPTER.SUBCHAPTER-PAGENUMBER", where page number is reset to 1 with
> every new sub-chapter (This allows for easy insertion or removal of pages
> during the lifetime of the product without affecting the page numbering of
> the whole document). In this type of document, having auto-inserted blank
> pages every 4 or 5 pages overly inflates the document.

If you do not want the automatic "odd pages right", you have to use different
settings in the page styles. The settings "right and left" and "mirrored" have
the automatic "odd pages right". But you can set "only left" and "only right".
These put the content left and right respectively regardless of the page
number.
You will likely need a first page style (without footer), a left page style and
a right page style. To get an automatic change between right and left, you set
"Next style" reciprocally.

Shortcoming of such left-right-alternating is, that when inserting a page break
you need to know whether the new page will be a right or left one to choose the
correct style in the dialog. And you will have to change page breaks, if you
later on notice, that you have to add a further page in between.

For me this is a "works for me".

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #12 from A.Holtsmark  ---
(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #11)
> (In reply to A.Holtsmark from comment #9)
> > "What is the effect of Tools > Options > Writer > Printing ... "Print
> > automatically inserted blank pages" for your case?"

Hi Cor,
I ran the test on the test-document that I posted albove.
When editing in "Book mode", un-checking "Print automatically inserted blank
pages" results in blank pages not being printed. This remains irrelevant since
I can not create the document in a sensible fashion. 

> > 
> > -This setting is of little relevance.
> > It does not affect the way the document reacts to viewing settings, and it
> 
> correct, that is what I wrote.
> 
> > changes nothing to the pdf export. 
> 
> There is the same option in PDF export.
I looked, but could not find such a setting. This does not imply that this
setting does not exist. However, this too is irrelevant to my problem.



> > My problem is one of editing, not printing.
> 
> You also wrote that it is a problem that in published documents, too many
> pages needs to be replaced because of this option influencing page
> numbering..
> So that is confusing.

The problem that I have is that I would end up with a document that has 50% to
100% more pages than necessary due to auto-inserted blank pages. As thing stand
now, there is already too little space in the portable ring-binder that should
hold the document. Unchecking the printing option reduces the number of printed
pages, but it does not let me view the document properly while editing.

> But the request is to have an option to not have the automatic inserted
> blank pages, with as consequence that in a printed book at one moment right
> pages have odd numbers, and at another position even numbers?

The basic issue is that to view the document correctly with left hand page to
the left and right hand page to the right, writer must put the first page to
the right. Writer only does this in "book mode", but then it inserts blank
pages all through the document. The issue can be solved in two ways:
1: make it possible to suppress the auto-insertion of blank pages in book mode.
2: make it possible to position the first page to the right outside of book
mode. 
Both solutions could be selected over a simple checkbox in the appropriate
menu. 
Please play around with the document I uploaded and see if you can get it to
view correctly. I can only acheive this be de-selecting book-mode and adding a
blank page in front of the first page. 

I am sorry about needing so much text to explain the problem, but it was not
easy to find and understand the underlying issue, and it is not an obvious bug.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #11 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to A.Holtsmark from comment #9)
> "What is the effect of Tools > Options > Writer > Printing ... "Print
> automatically inserted blank pages" for your case?"
> 
> -This setting is of little relevance.
> It does not affect the way the document reacts to viewing settings, and it

correct, that is what I wrote.

> changes nothing to the pdf export. 

There is the same option in PDF export.

> My problem is one of editing, not printing.

You also wrote that it is a problem that in published documents, too many pages
needs to be replaced because of this option influencing page numbering..
So that is confusing.

But the request is to have an option to not have the automatic inserted blank
pages, with as consequence that in a printed book at one moment right pages
have odd numbers, and at another position even numbers?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #10 from A.Holtsmark  ---
Created attachment 142121
  --> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=142121=edit
Test document which should be possible to view with pages marked "left" to the
left and pages marked "right" to the right.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #9 from A.Holtsmark  ---
"What is the effect of Tools > Options > Writer > Printing ... "Print
automatically inserted blank pages" for your case?"

-This setting is of little relevance.
It does not affect the way the document reacts to viewing settings, and it
changes nothing to the pdf export. I could not try printing right now, but I
assume that the setting will work as published there.

My problem is one of editing, not printing.
I need to edit the document with left- and right-hand pages displayed properly
next to each other on the screen (for example, left page often contains a
screenshot, while the right-hand page explains the contents of the screenshot).

In all other viewing modes but "book mode", writer swaps left with right (due
displaying the first page on the left hand side), and in "book mode" I get all
the auto-generated blank pages pushed in whenever the numbering starts at 1 for
what should be a left-hand page.

The only way to work around this is to add an empty page in front of page 1,
view it in not "book mode", and delete this page before printing or exporting
to pdf. 
Doing this risks destroying the formatting throughout the document when the
page is removed (although it should not).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

Cor Nouws  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEEDINFO
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #8 from Cor Nouws  ---
Hi A.Holtsmark,

Thanks for bringing up the issue here.
What is the effect of Tools > Options > Writer > Printing ... "Print
automatically inserted blank pages" for your case?

It does not change the situation on the screen (in book mode) but leaves out
the blank pages in printing, so ..?

Cor

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||c...@nouenoff.nl,
   ||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu

--- Comment #7 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Stuart, Cor, what do you think?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #6 from A.Holtsmark  ---
Chances are 50-50. In our documentation, we do not AIM to have a page No. 1
being on the left, it is the result of the length of the last sub-chapter.

An alternate solution would be to have the option of putting the first page of
the document to the right even if the document is not viewed in "book mode"
This could be a simple check-box, and it would leave the auto-insertion of
blank pages alone.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

Dieter Praas  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||needsUXEval
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org

--- Comment #5 from Dieter Praas  ---
(In reply to A.Holtsmark from comment #4)

> The basic problem here is one of assuming that EVERYBODY that writes a
> document that will be printed and bound into book form will ALWAYS want a
> page No. 1 to be a right-hand page.

So if you have a book with chapter-subchapter-pagenumber, it is common, that
pagenumber 1 is on the left?

In fact, the setting is more general: if you insert a page break that starts
with an uneven page number, a blank page is added on the left.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #4 from A.Holtsmark  ---
The problem is that when writing the document with two pages visible at the
same time, using book mode is the only way to get writer to display the
document with left- and right-hand pages correctly positioned on the screen.
Writer acheives this by putting the first page in the document to the right and
leaving an empty space to the left of it.
This means that all other viewing modes will put what in print will become the
right-hand page to the left and the left hand page of the next page pair to the
right. This makes formatting any document that will be printed in book-form (as
in a pile of paper connected on one side), but which does not follow the
convention of page nr. 1 to the right, very difficult.

As explained earlier: Our technical documentation uses a more complex page
numbering consisting of CHAPTER.SUBCHAPTER-PAGENUMBER. Each new SUBCHAPTER
starts with PAGENUMBER = 1. 

This must be so, so that inserting a new page somewhere in the middle of
document will not result in all further pages of the document having to be
replaced only because all page numbers must increase by 1. 

Since sunbhapters are only a few pages long, this means that, with the current
situation, there will be very many blank pages inserted. 


Our current work-around is not to use "book mode", to view two pages at a time,
and to add an empty page in front of the document. This empty page must then be
deleted every time we wish to print the document, and this carries the risk of
screwing up the formatting of the whole document.

The basic problem here is one of assuming that EVERYBODY that writes a document
that will be printed and bound into book form will ALWAYS want a page No. 1 to
be a right-hand page. I am trying to convey the information that this
assumption is incorrect for some types of documents.

I have found some very old threads lamenting over this problem, but have not
been able to find an open bug/enhancement-report

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #3 from Dieter Praas  ---
(In reply to A.Holtsmark from comment #2)
> This is good in normal books, but there are other document types where this
> assumption is incorrect. It should be possible to avoid these blank pages
> being inserted.

Buit this is the book mode. If you create other document types you should use
the normal view. I don't think that there are books, where you find an odd page
number on the left side.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

--- Comment #2 from A.Holtsmark  ---
Click Insert->Manual Break 
This brings up menu "Insert Break"
Select Type: "Page break"
Select Style: "Default Style"
Check checkbox "Change Page Number"
Set "Page number" to "1" (Default)

Seeing that the first page in the document is a right-hand page, Writer will
insert a blank page so that the new page after the page break also becomes a
right-hand page.
This is good in normal books, but there are other document types where this
assumption is incorrect. It should be possible to avoid these blank pages being
inserted.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 117231] There is no way to suppress Writer inserting blank pages to make page No. 1 a right-hand page (Formatting)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117231

Dieter Praas  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||dgp-m...@gmx.de

--- Comment #1 from Dieter Praas  ---
(In reply to A.Holtsmark from comment #0)
> 7: Insert manual break > page break / Style: default style / "Change page
> number": 1

Sorry, but the meaning of the step "change page number": 1 is not lear to me.
What shall I do?

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