[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 41316] Page styles should support hierarchical parent-child relationships (like paragraph or character styles)

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41316

Stéphane Guillou (stragu)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Version|unspecified |Inherited From OOo
   Hardware|Other   |All

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Regina Henschel  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||garrett.brouss...@gmail.com

--- Comment #41 from Regina Henschel  ---
*** Bug 156203 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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--- Comment #40 from ge.hu...@gmx.net ---
Same as Thomas Jakway

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jonathon  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||toki.kant...@gmail.com

--- Comment #39 from jonathon  ---
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #14)

> Currently inheritance is not supported by the file format. The needed 
> attribute > style:parent-style-name is missing, because the 
>  element is > not child of a  element. Such 
> new feature will only be possible in > extended mode anytime soon.

(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #21)
> (In reply to Dieter from comment #20) 
> > Regina, is it now possible with ODF 1.3?
> 
> No, it is not possible in ODF 1.3.
> 
> ODF 1.3 gives the possibility to use  in
> Writer and Calc too. That allows e.g. gradient fill (not implemented for
> Calc yet). But an attribute for reference to a parent does still not exist.

>From a file format perspective, are these two items the only stumbling blocks.
( Hand-waving aside implementation related issues.)

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Eyal Rozenberg  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||153534


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153534
[Bug 153534] Most bundled page styles are nonsensical and/or redundant
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Eyal Rozenberg  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15
   ||3534

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--- Comment #38 from Thomas Jakway  ---
I've added myself to the CC list awaiting the day we go boldly forth into an
era where office programs support page style inheritance and committees are
notified after the fact.

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--- Comment #37 from Murdo Maclachlan  ---
Dropping in to note my support for this one. It would save a huge amount of
time for me.

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--- Comment #28 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #27)
> It means that "unlike OOo bugzilla, where such a feature is enabled,
> LibreOffice bugzilla does not support voting; and for that reason, the wiki
> page was deleted", not some "we delete this, because there is such a thing
> in OOo".

I understand the meaning of the sentence, I just don't understand the logic
behind it. :)

How can I vote for a bug to put it into the focus?

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--- Comment #36 from Regina Henschel  ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #32)
> (In reply to Wolfgang Jäger from comment #29)
> 
> Note that having this feature implemented does not require formal ODF
> support *first*. To the contrary, I suppose that having this implemented as
> a LO-specific extension to the standard would help the standardization, as
> "working implementation exists" (this helps at least in some standardization
> bodies like C++ committee, so possibly also in OASIS - Regina could tell if
> I'm mistaken).
> 
> However, a good *proposal* to OASIS (if not yet filed) would be good, and
> possibly would serve as initial implementation guide.

Mike, you are right in principle. Only that the ODF TC recommends that the
developer contacts the ODF TC very early and is willing to work together with
the TC. For details see
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/ProposalTemplate%20ODF%201.4

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--- Comment #35 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to csongor from comment #33)
> It is especially sad to see that the list of bugs cannot show the number of
> Ccs, and I cannot even search for the ones that have many of them. Based on
> this, I believe nobody cares which bugs are needed by more people.

At least you can the comments as a column to the bug list. And the advanced
search has also some nice features. 
We have 362 bugs with high/highest importance and picking the one to vote for
is likely not so easy. Ultimately, QA tags bugs/enhancements by some attributes
and sets the importance respectively. 

critical = 1
major = 189 
normal = 85
minor = 15
trivial = 
enhancement = 63

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/report.cgi?x_axis_field=bug_severity_axis_field=component_axis_field=_redirect=1_format=report-table_desc_type=allwordssubstr_desc==---_type=allwordssubstr=_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr_file_loc=_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr_whiteboard=_type=allwords=_id=_id_type=anyexact=highest=high_to1=1=substring=_to2=1=1=1=substring==1=substringNow_top=AND=noop=noop==table=wrap

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--- Comment #34 from Wolfgang Jäger  ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #32)
> (In reply to Wolfgang Jäger from comment #29)
> 
> Note that having this feature implemented does not require formal ODF
> support *first*. To the contrary, I suppose that having this implemented as
> a LO-specific extension to the standard would help the standardization, as
> "working implementation exists" ...
> 
> However, a good *proposal* to OASIS (if not yet filed) would be good, and
> possibly would serve as initial implementation guide.
Due to age, slowness, and the missing mound I can't pitch that ball. Sorry.

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--- Comment #33 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
(In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #30)
> (In reply to csongor from comment #28)
> > How can I vote for a bug to put it into the focus?
> 
> You can't. Voting means basically nothing, because the project doesn't
> mandate any developer what to work on. E.g., TDF can't tell me: "Mike, there
> is this bug 41316, it has N votes, so go and implement it". So any such
> enhancement only gets developer attention when the developer is interested
> themselves (e.g., they are among the voters; or the developer is hired to
> implement this; or the developer is curious / knows some free time and feels
> it entertaining, etc.). Thus, voting is mostly useless.
> 
> Having yourself in CC list affects bug "importance" a bit - so there is some
> potential that most watched bugs would at some point be picked by TDF for a
> tender (but there is a separate wiki page for those, IIRC).

Sad news, thanks. 

It is especially sad to see that the list of bugs cannot show the number of
Ccs, and I cannot even search for the ones that have many of them. Based on
this, I believe nobody cares which bugs are needed by more people.

(Strange that I filter by the number of votes and I can even turn on the column
of the number of votes but obviously all values are 0. Letting displaying votes
when they are turned off seems to be only a bugzilla bug.)

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--- Comment #32 from Mike Kaganski  ---
(In reply to Wolfgang Jäger from comment #29)

Note that having this feature implemented does not require formal ODF support
*first*. To the contrary, I suppose that having this implemented as a
LO-specific extension to the standard would help the standardization, as
"working implementation exists" (this helps at least in some standardization
bodies like C++ committee, so possibly also in OASIS - Regina could tell if I'm
mistaken).

However, a good *proposal* to OASIS (if not yet filed) would be good, and
possibly would serve as initial implementation guide.

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--- Comment #31 from Mike Kaganski  ---
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Budget2022

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--- Comment #30 from Mike Kaganski  ---
(In reply to csongor from comment #28)
> How can I vote for a bug to put it into the focus?

You can't. Voting means basically nothing, because the project doesn't mandate
any developer what to work on. E.g., TDF can't tell me: "Mike, there is this
bug 41316, it has N votes, so go and implement it". So any such enhancement
only gets developer attention when the developer is interested themselves
(e.g., they are among the voters; or the developer is hired to implement this;
or the developer is curious / knows some free time and feels it entertaining,
etc.). Thus, voting is mostly useless.

Having yourself in CC list affects bug "importance" a bit - so there is some
potential that most watched bugs would at some point be picked by TDF for a
tender (but there is a separate wiki page for those, IIRC).

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--- Comment #29 from Wolfgang Jäger  ---
The documentfoundation isn't OASIS.

Suppose comment #21 by Regina Henschel is still relevant.

Will there be an ODF 1.4 or 2.0 in the "near" future?

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--- Comment #27 from Mike Kaganski  ---
(In reply to csongor from comment #26)
> > The LibreOffice Bugzilla bug tracking system does not support ''Votes'' for 
> > requests as it is available for OpenOffice.org
> 
> I don't understand this. AFAIK, OOo and LO are independent and OOo is
> more-or-less abandoned. How could I vote for this bug in order to put it
> into the focus of the LO developers?

It means that "unlike OOo bugzilla, where such a feature is enabled,
LibreOffice bugzilla does not support voting; and for that reason, the wiki
page was deleted", not some "we delete this, because there is such a thing in
OOo".

Bear in mind that most contributors are not native English speakers.

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--- Comment #26 from cson...@halmai.hu ---
(In reply to R. Becke from comment #9)
> Hi together,
> FYI (& FYA) I've added this bug to the list of enhancemts in LibreOffice:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement
> If you like I would suggest to vote for this enhancement.
> Thx & Regards

I wanted to vote for this but I can see this on the screen:

> This page has been deleted. 
> ...
> The LibreOffice Bugzilla bug tracking system does not support ''Votes'' for 
> requests as it is available for OpenOffice.org

I don't understand this. AFAIK, OOo and LO are independent and OOo is
more-or-less abandoned. How could I vote for this bug in order to put it into
the focus of the LO developers?

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--- Comment #25 from Daniel T.  ---
+1 
Would love to see this implemented!

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--- Comment #24 from jp.k...@xs4all.nl ---
Please, PLEASE!
This request has been in for 11 years now, and it has been urgent for me all
this time.
Please make it possible to make a page style that is just slightly different
from an existing page style. Copying (on paper!) the parameters of a style and
re-entering them into the new style is time consuming. Moreover it is error
prone, because if I make a change to the original style, the change will not be
inherited, so I have to modify both separately.

Please do something about this promptly!

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Evil Overlord  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||bma.qu...@gmail.com

--- Comment #23 from Evil Overlord  ---
I'd love to see this. For example, I publish many books in different sizes. I
have 5 basic page styles in each book. Changing the trim size of the book
requires changing each page style, one by one. It would save me time, effort,
and - most important - chance of error if I could simply change the page size
one time, and have that flow to all subsidiary page styles.

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Telesto  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||michael.me...@collabora.com

--- Comment #22 from Telesto  ---
@Michael,
I think this qualifies to be on the radar (old, huge CC list, useful) and
currently "simply" bureaucratic question of getting they (odt) specification
process done

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Telesto  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||6961

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V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||5802

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--- Comment #21 from Regina Henschel  ---
(In reply to Dieter from comment #20) 
> Regina, is it now possible with ODF 1.3?

No, it is not possible in ODF 1.3.

ODF 1.3 gives the possibility to use  in Writer
and Calc too. That allows e.g. gradient fill (not implemented for Calc yet).
But an attribute for reference to a parent does still not exist.

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--- Comment #20 from Dieter  ---
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #14)
> Currently inheritance is not supported by the file format. The needed
> attribute style:parent-style-name is missing, because the
>  element is not child of a  element.

Regina, is it now possible with ODF 1.3?

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Dieter  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13
   ||3806

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Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||xiscofa...@libreoffice.org
   Priority|medium  |high

--- Comment #19 from Xisco Faulí  ---
Changing bug priority back to high since the number of people in CC is higher
than 20

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Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|high|medium

--- Comment #18 from Xisco Faulí  ---
Changing priority back to 'medium' since the number of duplicates is lower than
5

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Wolfgang Jäger  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||j...@psilosoph.de

--- Comment #17 from Wolfgang Jäger  ---
+1 for implementing page style inheritance if not there are hidden technical
reasons making it (next to) impossible.

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--- Comment #16 from Md Ayquassar  ---
Comment: I would welcome the enhancement tremendously.  In fact, I strongly
need an opportunity to copy a page style (in my case, creating a copy of an
already changed "Default" page style).

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Regina Henschel  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||martinrineh...@gmail.com

--- Comment #15 from Regina Henschel  ---
*** Bug 119291 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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--- Comment #14 from Regina Henschel  ---
Currently inheritance is not supported by the file format. The needed attribute
style:parent-style-name is missing, because the  element is
not child of a  element. Such new feature will only be possible in
extended mode anytime soon.

Elmar: Please go to forum or mailing list for such discussions.

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--- Comment #13 from Elmar  ---
Is there a definitive simple user guide to the creation and use of style in LO?

I have been sold on the concept of styles since I first used Wordstar and have
always been frustrated by poor implementation in Word.

Every now and then (at least once a year) I take down my templates and try to
fix them up, but get stymied by the priority and the complexities. Especially
when it comes to headings and number lists.

I am prepared to attempt such a help document if it does not exist (and I ahve
nto found one in my googling), but could you point me to any material (other
than the standard help) - especially which can be used to create a precedence
map, and rules?

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--- Comment #12 from ajlittoz  ---
I fully support this enhancement request and hope for it implemented soon.

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Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks|48741   |107936


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48741
[Bug 48741] [META] Page header and footer issues
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107936
[Bug 107936] [META] Page-level bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 41316] Page styles should support hierarchical parent-child relationships ( like paragraph or character styles)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41316

Thomas Lendo  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||102946


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102946
[Bug 102946] [META] Styles bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 41316] Page styles should support hierarchical parent-child relationships (like paragraph or character styles)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41316

Regina Henschel  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||jean-francois.nifenecker@la
   ||poste.net

--- Comment #10 from Regina Henschel  ---
*** Bug 94647 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 41316] Page styles should support hierarchical parent-child relationships (like paragraph or character styles)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41316

--- Comment #11 from Jean-Francois Nifenecker 
 ---
Count my vote!

I'd appreciate this enhancement to be awaken and considered again.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 41316] Page styles should support hierarchical parent-child relationships (like paragraph or character styles)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41316

Cor Nouws c...@nouenoff.nl changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90
   ||646

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 41316] Page styles should support hierarchical parent-child relationships (like paragraph or character styles)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41316

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.freedesktop.or
   ||g/show_bug.cgi?id=87711

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 41316] Page styles should support hierarchical parent-child relationships (like paragraph or character styles)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41316

R. Becke subscribe.be...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||subscribe.be...@gmail.com

--- Comment #9 from R. Becke subscribe.be...@gmail.com ---
Hi together,
FYI ( FYA) I've added this bug to the list of enhancemts in LibreOffice:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement
If you like I would suggest to vote for this enhancement.
Thx  Regards

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 41316] Page styles should support hierarchical parent-child relationships (like paragraph or character styles)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41316

--- Comment #8 from R. Becke subscribe.be...@gmail.com ---
Is there a plan by when this enhancement will be realized in LibreOffice (or
OpenOffice). If possible I would as well like to vote for this enhancement.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 41316] Page styles should support hierarchical parent-child relationships (like paragraph or character styles)

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41316

stfhell stfh...@googlemail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||stfh...@googlemail.com
Summary|Page styles should all be   |Page styles should support
   |children of one base style, |hierarchical parent-child
   |just like paragraph styles  |relationships (like
   ||paragraph or character
   ||styles)

--- Comment #7 from stfhell stfh...@googlemail.com ---
Hierarchical page styles would be a great help in many situations. But I
modified the summary line a bit: Hierarchical linkage is only optional with
paragraph or character styles, you can select [none] as parent. So not all
styles are children of Default, not everyone has a parent...

Hierarchical relationships are supported for paragraphs, characters and frames.
Page and number styles don't support parent-linkage, for no apparent reason.

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