[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #77 from Tor Lillqvist  ---
This is a Mac-specific bug report. It even says so in the title. Please don't
confuse it by reporting findings on Windows here.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #76 from LibreTraining  ---
(In reply to Thomas Linard from comment #72)
> According to
> https://www.collaboraoffice.com/community-news/recent-mac-specific-fixes-in-
> libreoffice/ the bug is gone. So, I did my tests again: in reality, nothing
> has changed.
> 
> 
> Test report with LibreOffice 6.1 Beta 2, macOS 10.13.5
> 
> Open-source fonts installed (in OTF version each):
> 
...
> Overpass version 3.0.2 (16 styles)
> http://overpassfont.org/
> 
...
> Overpass: 2 styles are missing
> Overpass Heavy
> Overpass Heavy Italic

I tested Overpass on Windows 7 today and found different issues.
Perhaps on the different OSs different font meta data is used resulting in
different issues.
I am guessing that if the fonts had all the meta data filled-in

My findings today:

Overpass

Thin and ExtraLight - wrong screen display and print output. 
Export to PDF is correct.

There is an error in the SemiBold regular font file – it has the font family
set to Overpass Light.
After fixing this file the Overpass SemiBold regular displays correctly.

Overpass Mono
-
There is an error in the OverpassMono SemiBold font file – it has the font
family set to Overpass Mono Light.
After fixing this file the OverpassMono SemiBold displays correctly.



Since you did not have these errors, but different errors,
I am wondering what font info is read by default, 
and then by fallback if missing, in each OS.
And if this may be one source of issues.


p.s. doing Fira Sans tomorrow ...

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #75 from Thomas Linard  ---
(In reply to Tor Lillqvist from comment #74)
> The webpage you linked to says "The fix for this was to simply handle these
> special cases separately. If resources allow and more similar problematic
> fonts are identified, some more generic fix would be needed."

Well… "If (…) more similar problematic fonts are identified": this kind of
statement implies that the problems are yet to be discovered. I think my tests
show a general problem, both on macOS and on Linux. That the same behavior
occurs on two systems managing fonts in very different ways shows in my opinion
(and for any observer, I think) that the problem is systematic.

It would be more accurate to say: "we know there is a general problem, that it
is still not solved, and we've only solved some very specific cases".

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #74 from Tor Lillqvist  ---
The webpage you linked to says "The fix for this was to simply handle these
special cases separately. If resources allow and more similar problematic fonts
are identified, some more generic fix would be needed."

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #73 from Tor Lillqvist  ---
Nobody has said that everything is perfect now. Some details for some specific
fonts have been fixed. As can be seen from the actual commits.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #72 from Thomas Linard  ---
According to
https://www.collaboraoffice.com/community-news/recent-mac-specific-fixes-in-libreoffice/
the bug is gone. So, I did my tests again: in reality, nothing has changed.


Test report with LibreOffice 6.1 Beta 2, macOS 10.13.5

Open-source fonts installed (in OTF version each):

EB Garamond version 1.0 (10 styles)
https://github.com/octaviopardo/EBGaramond12

Fira Sans version 4.3.1 (92 styles)
https://github.com/bBoxType/FiraSans

Overpass version 3.0.2 (16 styles)
http://overpassfont.org/

All fonts are correctly viewed in Font Book, TextEdit, Apple Pages (version
7.1) and Microsoft Word 2016 for Mac (version 16.14.1). Fira Sans is presented
as 3 families: Fira Sans, Fira Sans Compressed, Fira Sans Condensed).

In LibreOffice 6.1.0 Beta 2:

EB Garamond: 4 styles are missing.
Medium
Medium Italic
SemiBold
SemiBold Italic

Fira Sans is presented as 3 families: Fira Sans, Fira Sans Compressed, Fira
Sans Condensed.

Fira Sans: 16 styles are missing.
Four
Four Italic
Hair
Hair Italic
Heavy
Heavy Italic
Medium
Medium Italic
SemiBold
SemiBold Italic
Two
Two Italic
Ultra 
Ultra Italic
Ultra Light
Ultra Light Italic

Fira Sans Compressed: 16 styles are missing.
Same as Fira Sans (except Ultra styles, unique to Fira Sans) + Fira Sans
Compressed Thin (and Italic)

Fira Sans Condensed: 14 styles are missing.
Same as Fira Sans (except Ultra styles, unique to Fira Sans)

Overpass: 2 styles are missing
Overpass Heavy
Overpass Heavy Italic

So, it seems that LibreOffice 6.1.0 Beta 2 on macOS effectively handles italics
and stretches (nothing changed), but still fails on some weights, in both
extremes of the spectrum and in the middle (nothing changed).

I think the same test on Linux will still gives very similar results. See bug
98596.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #71 from LibreTraining  ---
(In reply to Thomas Linard from comment #70)
> (In reply to LibreTraining from comment #68)
> 
> > So this "coretext" is stuffing all fonts into one of these 10 weights.
> > Correct?
> 
> Pango seems to do that. Doesn't seem very wise, but if it suits them…
> 
> > And as mentioned above, coretext is assigning different weights the same
> > weight.
> 
> Not exactly. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=766148 is a
> must-read.

It is surprising after reading through that entire thing that the bug was
marked fixed.
The tables in Comment 8 show the same issues we have here.
The same OS2 weight being mapped to multiple Pango-CoreText weights.
The results in the different tables were all over the place.

It is easy to see why Fira Sans Book, Regular, and Medium get broken.


> > This causes multiple fonts to be assigned the same weight, causes conflicts,
> > and display errors.
> 
> LibreOffice seems to do that, yes.
> 
> > It looks to me that coretext will never work.
> 
> My tests show no bug in Font Book, TextEdit, Apple Pages and MS Word (well,
> almost for Word).

I expect that any font utility will work correctly.
The three different font management utilities on my Win 7 system all list the
fonts correctly, and display them correctly.

The fonts all display correctly in InDesign and in QuarkXpress.


> > Or can someone please tell ignorant me how it possibly can work.
> > 
> > Why is coretext needed for selecting fonts when the metadata can be used
> > instead?
> 
> Keep in mind than the same behavior (almost) is observable with LibreOffice
> on Linux, so CoreText isn't the real problem.

I also read through
Bug 98596 - Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on
Linux 
before posting here.
The issues seem pretty much the same.
Multiple fonts being confused as one based on a faulty weighting system.

I tested the fonts mentioned here and in that bug on my Windows 7 + LO6.0.3.2.
Fira Sans, Overpass, EB Garamond 12, and Lato (9 weights), and others.

With one commercial Pro font I gave-up and edited the font family to be unique
for each weight and width I wanted to use.
Works fine now in LO6.


This issue appears to affect Mac, Linux, and Windows pretty much the same.

>From these two bug discussions, and the Pango bug discussion you linked to
above, it appears this will not be working properly any time soon.


So for now the workarounds are:
 - limited fonts installed from a font family to avoid conflicts
or
 - edit the fonts to make the family name unique for each weight/width

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #70 from Thomas Linard  ---
(In reply to LibreTraining from comment #68)

> So this "coretext" is stuffing all fonts into one of these 10 weights.
> Correct?

Pango seems to do that. Doesn't seem very wise, but if it suits them…

> And as mentioned above, coretext is assigning different weights the same
> weight.

Not exactly. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=766148 is a must-read.

> This causes multiple fonts to be assigned the same weight, causes conflicts,
> and display errors.

LibreOffice seems to do that, yes.

> It looks to me that coretext will never work.

My tests show no bug in Font Book, TextEdit, Apple Pages and MS Word (well,
almost for Word).

> Or can someone please tell ignorant me how it possibly can work.
> 
> Why is coretext needed for selecting fonts when the metadata can be used
> instead?

Keep in mind than the same behavior (almost) is observable with LibreOffice on
Linux, so CoreText isn't the real problem.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #69 from Tor Lillqvist  ---
"There is no reason why this should not work properly"

Congratulations, you have now discovered the simplest definition of what a bug
is.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #68 from LibreTraining  ---

>From the link above
https://github.com/GNOME/pango/blob/master/pango/pangocoretext-fontmap.c#L121

static const PangoCTWeight ct_weight_map[] = {
{ ct_weight_min, PANGO_WEIGHT_THIN },
{ -0.5, PANGO_WEIGHT_ULTRALIGHT },
{ -0.23, PANGO_WEIGHT_LIGHT },
{ -0.115, PANGO_WEIGHT_SEMILIGHT },
{  0.00, PANGO_WEIGHT_NORMAL },
{  0.2, PANGO_WEIGHT_MEDIUM },
{  0.3, PANGO_WEIGHT_SEMIBOLD },
{  0.4, PANGO_WEIGHT_BOLD },
{  0.6, PANGO_WEIGHT_ULTRABOLD },
{  ct_weight_max, PANGO_WEIGHT_HEAVY }
};

So this "coretext" is stuffing all fonts into one of these 10 weights.
Correct?

And as mentioned above, coretext is assigning different weights the same
weight.
This causes multiple fonts to be assigned the same weight, causes conflicts,
and display errors.

Fira Sans has 16 visual weights.
These are the weights designated in the font files.

Fira Sans Two (100)
Fira Sans Four(100)
Fira Sans Eight   (100)  
Fira Sans Hair(100)  
Fira Sans Thin(100)  
Fira Sans UltraLight  (200)
Fira Sans ExtraLight  (200) 
Fira Sans Light   (300) 
Fira Sans Book(350) 
Fira Sans Regular (400) 
Fira Sans Medium  (500) 
Fira Sans SemiBold(600)  
Fira Sans Bold(700) 
Fira Sans ExtraBold   (800)  
Fira Sans Heavy   (900) 
Fira Sans Ultra   (950)  

There is no way coretext can stuff all 16 of those into 10 weights.

Google fonts only shows 9 weights (which fits nicely with CSS).
Fira Sans Thin(100)  
Fira Sans ExtraLight  (200) 
Fira Sans Light   (300) 
Fira Sans Regular (400) 
Fira Sans Medium  (500) 
Fira Sans SemiBold(600)  
Fira Sans Bold(700) 
Fira Sans ExtraBold   (800)  
Fira Sans Black   (900)   (Heavy)

They simply ignore the rest.


Overpass

Overpass Thin(100) 
Overpass ExtraLight  (200)
Overpass Light   (300)
Overpass Regular (400)  
Overpass SemiBold(600) 
Overpass Bold(700)
Overpass ExtraBold   (800) 
Overpass Heavy   (900)

8 weights
There is no reason why this should not work properly.
Assigning the first three fonts the same weight (see above) makes no sense.


EB Garamond 12 (octaviopardo)

EB Garamond Regular(400)
EB Garamond Medium (500)
EB Garamond SemiBold   (600) 
EB Garamond Bold   (700)  
EB Garamond ExtraBold  (800)

5 weights.
The Medium and SemiBold should work properly (see above).


I do not see how this coretext thing can ever work properly with modern
typefaces.
It simply does not fit.

LO is already displaying the unique Full Font Name from the font file.
Why not just use that?
Other apps do. 
And the bold and italics buttons still work where appropriate.
Most modern fonts have structured the font info fields to work either way.

If the weight is needed to map to HTML for example, just read it from the font
file.

It looks to me that coretext will never work.
Or can someone please tell ignorant me how it possibly can work.

Why is coretext needed for selecting fonts when the metadata can be used
instead?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

Khaled Hosny  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks|103729  |


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103729
[Bug 103729] [META] HarfBuzz-based common text layout regressions
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

Thomas Linard  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks|102985  |113638


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102985
[Bug 102985] [META] Font bugs and enhancements
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113638
[Bug 113638] [META] Fonts listed in LibreOffice
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

Thomas Linard  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||103729


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103729
[Bug 103729] [META] HarfBuzz-based common text layout regressions
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|bibisectRequest |notBibisectable
 CC||xiscofa...@libreoffice.org

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #67 from Thomas Linard  ---
(In reply to Thomas Linard from comment #65)
> Test report with LibreOffice 6.0, macOS 10.12.6
> 
> Open-source fonts installed (in OTF version each):
> 
> EB Garamond version 1.0 (10 styles)
> https://github.com/octaviopardo/EBGaramond12
> 
> Fira Sans version 4.2.3 (92 styles)
> https://carrois.com/typefaces/FiraSans/
> 
> Overpass version 3.0.2 (16 styles)
> http://overpassfont.org/
> 
> All fonts are correctly viewed in Font Book, TextEdit and Apple Pages
> (version 6.3.1). Fira Sans is presented as 3 families: Fira Sans, Fira Sans
> Compressed, Fira Sans Condensed).
> 
> All fonts are (almost) correctly viewed in Microsoft Word 2016 for Mac
> (version 16.9.1). Fira Sans is presented as 5 families: Fira Sans, Fira Sans
> Eight, Fira Sans Four, Fira Sans Hair, Fira Sans Two. But: Fira Sans
> Condensed Book (and Italic) and Fira Sans Compressed Book (and Italic) are
> presented as Fira Sans Condensed 350 and Fira Sans Compressed 350. Fira Sans
> Book is presented as Fira Sans Book.
> 
> In LibreOffice 6.0.0:
> 
> EB Garamond: 4 styles are missing.
> Medium
> Medium Italic
> SemiBold
> SemiBold Italic
> 
> Fira Sans is presented as 3 families: Fira Sans, Fira Sans Compressed, Fira
> Sans Condensed.
> 
> Fira Sans: 16 styles are missing.
> Four
> Four Italic
> Hair
> Hair Italic
> Heavy
> Heavy Italic
> Medium
> Medium Italic
> SemiBold
> SemiBold Italic
> Two
> Two Italic
> Ultra 
> Ultra Italic
> Ultra Light
> Ultra Light Italic
> 
> Fira Sans Compressed: 16 styles are missing.
> Same as Fira Sans (except Ultra styles, unique to Fira Sans) + Fira Sans
> Compressed Thin (and Italic)
> 
> Fira Sans Condensed: 14 styles are missing.
> Same as Fira Sans (except Ultra styles, unique to Fira Sans)
> 
> Overpass: 2 styles are missing
> Overpass Heavy
> Overpass Heavy Italic
> 
> So, it seems that LibreOffice 6.0.0 on macOS effectively handles italics and
> stretches, but fails on some weights, in both extremes of the spectrum and
> in the middle.

The same test (almost: LibreOffice 6.0.2, Fira Sans 4.3
https://bboxtype.com/typefaces/FiraSans/ ) on Linux gives very similar results.
See bug 98596.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #66 from Thomas Linard  ---
(In reply to Tor Lillqvist from comment #60)
> Some discussion in
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Jan/0076.html , and
> (linked from that) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=931426

Hi,

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=766148
https://github.com/GNOME/pango/blob/master/pango/pangocoretext-fontmap.c (see
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/commits-list/2016-May/msg04616.html )

could be interesting documentation. The discussion is very informative.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

Thomas Linard  changed:

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URL||https://bugzilla.gnome.org/
   ||show_bug.cgi?id=766148

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

Thomas Linard  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||42082


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42082
[Bug 42082] [META] Make LibreOffice shine and glow on OS X
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

Thomas Linard  changed:

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   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98
   ||596

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

--- Comment #65 from Thomas Linard  ---
Test report with LibreOffice 6.0, macOS 10.12.6

Open-source fonts installed (in OTF version each):

EB Garamond version 1.0 (10 styles)
https://github.com/octaviopardo/EBGaramond12

Fira Sans version 4.2.3 (92 styles)
https://carrois.com/typefaces/FiraSans/

Overpass version 3.0.2 (16 styles)
http://overpassfont.org/

All fonts are correctly viewed in Font Book, TextEdit and Apple Pages (version
6.3.1). Fira Sans is presented as 3 families: Fira Sans, Fira Sans Compressed,
Fira Sans Condensed).

All fonts are (almost) correctly viewed in Microsoft Word 2016 for Mac (version
16.9.1). Fira Sans is presented as 5 families: Fira Sans, Fira Sans Eight, Fira
Sans Four, Fira Sans Hair, Fira Sans Two. But: Fira Sans Condensed Book (and
Italic) and Fira Sans Compressed Book (and Italic) are presented as Fira Sans
Condensed 350 and Fira Sans Compressed 350. Fira Sans Book is presented as Fira
Sans Book.

In LibreOffice 6.0.0:

EB Garamond: 4 styles are missing.
Medium
Medium Italic
SemiBold
SemiBold Italic

Fira Sans is presented as 3 families: Fira Sans, Fira Sans Compressed, Fira
Sans Condensed.

Fira Sans: 16 styles are missing.
Four
Four Italic
Hair
Hair Italic
Heavy
Heavy Italic
Medium
Medium Italic
SemiBold
SemiBold Italic
Two
Two Italic
Ultra 
Ultra Italic
Ultra Light
Ultra Light Italic

Fira Sans Compressed: 16 styles are missing.
Same as Fira Sans (except Ultra styles, unique to Fira Sans) + Fira Sans
Compressed Thin (and Italic)

Fira Sans Condensed: 14 styles are missing.
Same as Fira Sans (except Ultra styles, unique to Fira Sans)

Overpass: 2 styles are missing
Overpass Heavy
Overpass Heavy Italic

So, it seems that LibreOffice 6.0.0 on macOS effectively handles italics and
stretches, but fails on some weights, in both extremes of the spectrum and in
the middle.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 69254] Correct handling of font families (weight, style, stretches) on Mac

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69254

Thomas Linard  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|LibreOffice unable to   |Correct handling of font
   |correctly handle font   |families (weight, style,
   |styles on Mac   |stretches) on Mac

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