[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2018-02-13 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |
 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |vdragon.tai...@gmail.com
   |.freedesktop.org|
   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11
   ||3496
 Resolution|--- |FIXED

--- Comment #16 from Yousuf Philips (jay)  ---
We are defaulting to open source fonts in hebrew (bug 113538) and chinese (bug
114768) and will soon be defaulting also in arabic (bug 113532) and japanese
(bug 114751), so there isnt a need to keep this open.

(In reply to V字龍(Vdragon) from comment #15)
> Maybe implement a CJK fontpack and recommend CJK users to install it then? 

This has been suggested in bug 113496.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2018-02-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

--- Comment #15 from V字龍(Vdragon)  ---
Maybe implement a CJK fontpack and recommend CJK users to install it then? 
This will greatly improve interoperability as just yesterday my Source Han Sans
presentation looked VERY UGLY on my mom's Windows PC without the fonts
installed.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2017-12-29 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||114750


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114750
[Bug 114750] [META] Locale preferred fonts bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2017-10-21 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||43808


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43808
[Bug 43808] [META] Right-To-Left (aka Complex Text Layout) language issues
(RTL/CTL)
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2017-10-20 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||113305


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=113305
[Bug 113305] [META] Bundled fonts bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2017-10-20 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks|102985  |


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102985
[Bug 102985] [META] Font bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2016-10-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||102985


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102985
[Bug 102985] [META] Font bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2015-04-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Matthew Francis fdb...@neosheffield.co.uk changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||fdb...@neosheffield.co.uk
   Severity|minor   |enhancement

--- Comment #13 from Matthew Francis fdb...@neosheffield.co.uk ---
This is an enhancement request

- Severity: enhancement

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-09-21 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||83066

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-09-16 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on|83009   |
 Blocks||83009

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-08-24 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on||83009

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-08-09 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |NEW
 Ever confirmed|0   |1

--- Comment #12 from Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #11)
 Well they both are the same font with different names, so only one would
 have had to be included. :) 

I would advocate for Noto Sans over Source Han Sans because of the smaller and
more locale-friendly packaging of the OTF files. The Source Han Sans OTF files
are larger, presumably due to locale combining. This (like my prior comment) is
merely a pragmatic concern.

 I think that would be great for users who come libreoffice's website to
 download it. I think an even better idea would be that an infobar appears
 the first time a CJK user opens libreoffice after an upgrade/install if they
 dont have the fonts and suggests a means for them to download it

Agreed. I think at this point in the discussion (given Noto Sans / Source Hans
Sans) that this report can be confirmed. Whether and how a solution is
implemented remains for developers / l10n experts to determine. Some
interesting and worthwhile options have been presented in the discussion IMO.
Status set to NEW. For clarity, bug 80538 contains details about the infobar,
although this may not need to be added to the See Also list.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-08-06 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

--- Comment #11 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #9)
 This would increase each download by 81.5 MB (Noto Sans CJK) and ~95-100 MB
 (Source Han Sans) i.e., by nearly 100%.

Well they both are the same font with different names, so only one would have
had to be included. :) And due to the size, i would have only suggested that
the installer include the individual CJK locale version needed.

 A far better option would be to
 provide a link to a separate download on LO download pages for CJK locale
 (in a similar manner to the existing help / language packs). This would also
 make each font download smaller (~25-50 MB) as users will only be offered C
 or J or K.

I think that would be great for users who come libreoffice's website to
download it. I think an even better idea would be that an infobar appears the
first time a CJK user opens libreoffice after an upgrade/install if they dont
have the fonts and suggests a means for them to download it, as many users dont
come to the libreoffice website, including users who have it downloaded within
libreoffice.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-08-01 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

--- Comment #7 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Kevin has mentioned that now that adode/google have released the Source Han
Sans / Noto Sans cjk fonts under the Apache License 2 on July 15, these could
be used as default fonts, if they are bundled with libreoffice and the pdf
export didnt crash when using the fonts [bug 81516].

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-08-01 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

--- Comment #8 from Kevin Suo suokunl...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #7)
 Kevin has mentioned that now that adode/google have released the Source Han
 Sans / Noto Sans cjk fonts under the Apache License 2 on July 15, these
 could be used as default fonts, if they are bundled with libreoffice and the
 pdf export didnt crash when using the fonts [bug 81516].

Yes, I was going to file an enhancement request on this.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-08-01 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

--- Comment #9 from Owen Genat owen.ge...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #7)
 Kevin has mentioned that now that adode/google have released the Source Han
 Sans / Noto Sans cjk fonts under the Apache License 2 on July 15, these
 could be used as default fonts, if they are bundled with libreoffice 

This would increase each download by 81.5 MB (Noto Sans CJK) and ~95-100 MB
(Source Han Sans) i.e., by nearly 100%. A far better option would be to provide
a link to a separate download on LO download pages for CJK locale (in a similar
manner to the existing help / language packs). This would also make each font
download smaller (~25-50 MB) as users will only be offered C or J or K.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-08-01 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

--- Comment #10 from Kevin Suo suokunl...@gmail.com ---
(In reply to comment #9)
 This would increase each download by 81.5 MB (Noto Sans CJK) and ~95-100 MB
 (Source Han Sans) i.e., by nearly 100%. A far better option would be to
 provide a link to a separate download on LO download pages for CJK locale
 (in a similar manner to the existing help / language packs). This would also
 make each font download smaller (~25-50 MB) as users will only be offered C
 or J or K.

Good point...I will add a Source Han Sans CJK font download link on our
Simplified Chinese LibreOffice download website.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-06-26 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

--- Comment #5 from Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org ---
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. Well, it would depend on the exact script
you’re talking about; again, the input of native readers of the language in
question is extremely valuable for a decision to be made.

But one must also take into account:
 1) Will the new fonts render well* under Windows (where LO is most used)?
 2) Will the users be happy about a potentially problematic change (e.g., doc.
reflow because of different font metrics) every time they create a new
document? Will they expect the change?
 3) Do the new fonts fix any bug (e.g., misdrawn glyphs or broken metrics)?
and so on...

When requesting a font change, a better rationale than “it’s a libre font” is
needed. But that’s just my opinion anyway, the ESC should be better prepared to
decide on changes like this than me.

--
* For example, the Liberation fonts were professionally produced and hinted by
Monotype (supplies fonts for Microsoft). Although FLOSS has pretty much catched
up and there’s a tool called ttfautohint that makes fonts look awesome under
Windows.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-06-26 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED
 Resolution|WONTFIX |---

--- Comment #6 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Well i use arabic in CTL and my best friend is a native speaker and we both are
trying to complete the arabic UI translation before 4.3. :)

Did some investigating about arabic fonts and here are the results.
1) LibreOffice defaults to Tahoma for arabic
2) DejaVu Sans has arabic and closely resembles Tahoma in metrics.
3) DejaVu Sans already comes with LibreOffice
4) Wikipedia uses DejaVu Sans to render arabic pages -
http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/ليبر_أوفيس
5) Word 2013 defaults to Arial for arabic text

IMHO, part of document liberation is preserving the look of a document and that
look cant be preserved if a user doesnt have access to a proprietary font that
is used in the creation of the document. I'm assuming that must have been the
same reason for shifting from Times New Roman and Arial to Liberation fonts.

I'm going to do additional investigation on what arabic fonts are more used
online and which fonts are more visually please both on screen and in print.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-06-25 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #3 from Adolfo Jayme f...@libreoffice.org ---
Jay, I believe Kevin’s opinion should have more weight as he is a Chinese
reader. He knows about fonts for his language, and he can tell the strenghts
and weaknesses of each one of them.

I don’t think any of us (in UX-Advise) is in a position to evaluate whether a
move to other fonts for CJK is good or not – that should be evaluated by native
readers of the script, not by a bunch of UX enthusiasts who don’t even know
Chinese.

Also, I don’t think that libre fonts are necessarily better for the purposes of
interoperability that LibreOffice is trying to pursue. This is even more of a
complicated issue for non-Latin scripts.

And when we changed default fonts to Liberation, the request was escalated to
the ESC, IIRC. And we actually shipped those fonts. Defaulting to fonts that we
don’t ship makes no sense, as it made no sense when OOo defaulted to AGFA
fonts.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-06-25 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

--- Comment #4 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
Thanks for your input Adolfo about CJK fonts and i hope this issue is brought
up in the future when CJK fonts are better. As this bug was about both Asian
and CTL fonts, can you way in on CTL, as i'm a CTL user.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-06-23 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

suokunl...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||suokunl...@gmail.com

--- Comment #1 from suokunl...@gmail.com ---
Jay I totally disagree with you on this issue.

Libreoffice default fonts for westen is libration sans, this does not cause
problem when you send (ODF) files to others, because if they  install
libreoffice they also have libration sans/serif installed.

But, LibreO does not ship with CJK fonts by default. So in order to retain the
best appearance when others open your file, it's important to set the default
font to the fonts most users have. Most users have SimSun and Micosoft Yahei,
as most PCs in the world are Windows. For linux users, I am sure that if they
are for productivity usage they must have simsun and ms yahei installed; even
if they dont, most of them know how to embed fonts in their ODF document (while
most windows users do not know this feature.)

Simsun and MS Yahei are the most common fonts used, at least for Chinese users.
 Even if it's better to use free CJK fonts by default, there is no good fonts
to choose. (ttf-wqy? it's buggy, not good look for printing. Droidfallback?
based on my testing, in libreO some chars are shown as boxes in libreO with
droidfallback fonts, and it's for screen reading, not good for printing.)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 80346] Preferred default fonts for Asian and CTL documents should be Libre fonts

2014-06-23 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80346

Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|highest |medium
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org
  Component|Writer  |ux-advise

--- Comment #2 from Jay Philips philip...@hotmail.com ---
For most users, whether it be on windows or linux, they use the fonts that come
with their system and microsoft proprietary fonts like simsun and yahei are not
available to linux users unless they purchase them or copy them from their
windows installation. While with free fonts, if a user doesnt have it, they can
easily download it for free.

Ultimately, if free CJK fonts do a good enough job for displaying and printing,
they should be the default if present on the system and if a user wishes to use
other fonts instead, they can do so. Only by having more people use the free
fonts, will the problems with these fonts be noticed and hopefully corrected.

With more chinese using linux distributions like Ubuntu Kylin and Linux Deepin,
i believe the WenQuanYi fonts  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WenQuanYi  will
only get better with time. I hope that you will also encourage the visitors to
your chinese LibO forum to visit  http://wenq.org/wqy2/index.cgi  and help
improve the fonts. I would love your feedback on how well chinese linux distros
handle this lack of complete CJK fonts.

jmadero suggested that i set this to ux-advise to hear what they have to say
about the issue.

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