[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

Hossein  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Whiteboard||reviewed:2022

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #40 from Mike Kaganski  ---
(In reply to Timur from comment #37)

There is no need to introduce options for what is already configurable and
flexible.

We have a concept of templates, and an option to make some template the
default. So for this issue:

1. It makes sense to change the *application default* (i.e., when no templates
are used = how the program behaves on a clean install) to something that
matches *most* user expectations, without any new options introduced (and
appreciating that some users might indeed like the old behavior better);
2. Everyone who prefers to have headers/footers in newly created documents
should do that exactly like any other customization of newly created documents
is performed: using custom default template.

(That said, I do not know what is the predominant user expectation here, and I
don't care about this - just commented on the "Some general principles".)

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #39 from Samuel Mehrbrodt (allotropia) 
 ---
(In reply to Timur from comment #37)
> - solution is to make an option for default behavior of new sheets, and that
> user may save specific sheet setting (default and specific setting);
> - I'm not in favor of changing default behavior (of having header) but it
> doesn't matter much as long as there's an option;

Yes, the whole point of this request is to change the default, so only new
documents will be affected anyway.
Header/Footer settings are saved to the document, so headers/footers won't be
removed from existing documents.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

Roman Kuznetsov <79045_79...@mail.ru> changed:

   What|Removed |Added

Summary|Calc: Add an option to  |Calc: disable
   |disable headers/footers by  |headers/footers by default
   |default, while saving   |
   |status in document  |

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

Timur  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12 |
   |1637|

--- Comment #37 from Timur  ---
Some general principles:
- it's wrong to change behavior based on some opinions when others will have
different needs, so any discussion in that direction is not useful;
- solution is to make an option for default behavior of new sheets, and that
user may save specific sheet setting (default and specific setting);
- I'm not in favor of changing default behavior (of having header) but it
doesn't matter much as long as there's an option;
- there'a bug 144056 to be also able to turn off headers once when using
commandline. 

Due to users and duplicates, I think this is of High importance (relative to
other enhancement requests, of which some are highest and some lower).

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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--- Comment #36 from Roeland  ---
(In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #35)
> (In reply to Timur from comment #34)
> > This is one of changes that will never be correct because of different
> > needs. 
> > I'm not in favor of changing any such defaults.
> > So please, do *not* change default behavior, but introduce an *option* in
> > Calc -View? that user may set header and (separately) footer off.
> 
> Timur, today we have enabled Header/Footer by default! User doesn't expect
> it. User can enable Header/Footer when HE/SHE want to print the spreadsheet.

Yes, it's always a surprise for the user when "page one" suddenly gets printed
on their documents.

This header/footer is per default set as on. There's no way to know this until
you print/export your fist spreadsheet, whereafter the search begins why these
words are included.

This is not wysiwyg behaviour. It’s always a search for new people how to
remove these (possibly unwanted) words.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #35 from Roman Kuznetsov <79045_79...@mail.ru> ---
(In reply to Timur from comment #34)
> This is one of changes that will never be correct because of different
> needs. 
> I'm not in favor of changing any such defaults.
> So please, do *not* change default behavior, but introduce an *option* in
> Calc -View? that user may set header and (separately) footer off.

Timur, today we have enabled Header/Footer by default! User doesn't expect it.
User can enable Header/Footer when HE/SHE want to print the spreadsheet.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #34 from Timur  ---
This is one of changes that will never be correct because of different needs. 
I'm not in favor of changing any such defaults.
So please, do *not* change default behavior, but introduce an *option* in Calc
-View? that user may set header and (separately) footer off.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||difficultyInteresting,
   ||easyHack, skillCpp, topicUI

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|heiko.tietze@documentfounda |libreoffice-b...@lists.free
   |tion.org|desktop.org
 Status|ASSIGNED|NEW

--- Comment #33 from Heiko Tietze  ---
It's pretty simple to add exclude testing of ( !m_bHeaderOn && !m_bFooterOn )
in ScDocShell::GetStatePageStyle() sc/source/ui/docshell/docsh4.cxx and to add
checkboxes to the dialog which are assigned at ScHFEditPage::ScHFEditPage()
sc/source/ui/pagedlg/scuitphfedit.cxx with

const bool bOn = rCoreAttrs.Get( bHeader ? ATTR_PAGE_HEADERSET :
ATTR_PAGE_FOOTERSET ).GetItemSet().Get( ATTR_PAGE_ON ).GetValue();
m_xEnableHF->set_active( bOn );
m_xEnableHF->set_label(m_xEnableHF->get_label() + " " +
m_xFtDefinedHF->get_label());

but then the trouble begins. The dialog is heavily overloaded and tabs are show
or not depending on many conditions. So unassigning myself to save time for
other tasks.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |ASSIGNED
   Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |heiko.tietze@documentfounda
   |desktop.org |tion.org

--- Comment #29 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Here is the patch for open #1: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/77445/

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #28 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #26)
> * Create two new menu entries...

(In reply to Cor Nouws from comment #27)
> (In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #22)
> 
> > 2. Insert->Headers and Footers should be split to two menu items
> Good idea.

Why don't you consider Roman's option #1, to remove Insert > Header and
Footer...? 

Some arguments: 
* In Calc you insert or edit spreadsheets not the printout where h/f would be
added. 
* Adding more and more items to the menu bloats it further. 
* Insert is not the right place for editing, which is the actual operation.
Moving it to Edit means you have to go to Format > Page to enable - or you
insert via Edit.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #27 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #22)

> 2. Insert->Headers and Footers should be split to two menu items
> Insert->Header and Insert->Footer that will be open Format->Page dialog on
> Header and Footer tabs and will activate options "Header on" / "Footer on"
> respectively.
Good idea.

(In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #25)
> (In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #24)
> > How are users then supposed to edit header and footer content?
> 
> User will press the Edit button on Header/Footer tab in the Page dialog and
> he will see the same Header (Footer) dialog as from Instert->Headers and
> Footers now.
And I wouldn't be surprised if the same menu opens the dialog always, allowing
the user to click Edit for existing header/footers.

(though it feels a bit inconsistent compared to other functions that have both
insert and edit in the menu..)

> btw, if I disable header and footer in the Page dialog then Instert->Headers
> and Footers disabled also and I can't use it directly.
That doesn't seem logic to me..

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #26 from Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB)  ---
Ok, sounds reasonable then.

But the UX improvements should be done *before* disabling header/footer by
default.

* Create two new menu entries Insert->Header / Insert->Footer which open the
Page dialog in the respective tab
* Also the "Edit" button in the Header/Footer tab in the page style dialog is a
bit hidden (I never noticed it). It should have a clearer label (e.g. "Edit
header/footer content") and probably be placed directly under the "Enable
Header" checkbox. Maybe the content below could be separated by a heading "More
options" or something.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #25 from Roman Kuznetsov <79045_79...@mail.ru> ---
(In reply to Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB) from comment #24)
> (In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #22)
> > 1. Just delete menu item Insert->Headers and Footers at all and update
> > guides and Help.
> > 2. Insert->Headers and Footers should be split to two menu items
> > Insert->Header and Insert->Footer that will be open Format->Page dialog on
> > Header and Footer tabs and will activate options "Header on" / "Footer on"
> > respectively.
> > 
> 
> How are users then supposed to edit header and footer content?

User will press the Edit button on Header/Footer tab in the Page dialog and he
will see the same Header (Footer) dialog as from Instert->Headers and Footers
now.

btw, if I disable header and footer in the Page dialog then Instert->Headers
and Footers disabled also and I can't use it directly.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #24 from Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB)  ---
(In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #22)
> 1. Just delete menu item Insert->Headers and Footers at all and update
> guides and Help.
> 2. Insert->Headers and Footers should be split to two menu items
> Insert->Header and Insert->Footer that will be open Format->Page dialog on
> Header and Footer tabs and will activate options "Header on" / "Footer on"
> respectively.
> 

How are users then supposed to edit header and footer content?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #23 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Roman Kuznetsov from comment #22)
> Heiko, I suggest merge back your patch disabling header/footer by default.
> 
> For solution of the problem with "Insert->Headers and Footers" menu item I
> suggest follow variants for discuss:
> 
> 1. Just delete menu item Insert->Headers and Footers at all and update
> guides and Help.
> 2. Insert->Headers and Footers should be split to two menu items
> Insert->Header and Insert->Footer that will be open Format->Page dialog on
> Header and Footer tabs and will activate options "Header on" / "Footer on"
> respectively.
> 
> I think disabling of Headers/Footers by default is more important and useful
> thing than disabled "Insert->Headers and Footers" menu item that btw. has
> workaround.

Samuel, would that reassess your concerns?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

--- Comment #22 from Roman Kuznetsov <79045_79...@mail.ru> ---
Heiko, I suggest merge back your patch disabling header/footer by default.

For solution of the problem with "Insert->Headers and Footers" menu item I
suggest follow variants for discuss:

1. Just delete menu item Insert->Headers and Footers at all and update guides
and Help.
2. Insert->Headers and Footers should be split to two menu items Insert->Header
and Insert->Footer that will be open Format->Page dialog on Header and Footer
tabs and will activate options "Header on" / "Footer on" respectively.

I think disabling of Headers/Footers by default is more important and useful 
thing than disabled "Insert->Headers and Footers" menu item that btw. has
workaround.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

Xisco Faulí  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||dani3l.grigo...@gmail.com

--- Comment #21 from Xisco Faulí  ---
*** Bug 122492 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|tietze.he...@gmail.com  |libreoffice-b...@lists.free
   ||desktop.org

--- Comment #20 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Since it was requested again in bug 121637 here is where we are:
Patch https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/59696/ disables the header/footer by
default but then we run into trouble with the menu item Insert > Header and
Footer... for editing. Patch https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/64712/ disables
this menu item until Header/Footer are checked at Format > Page > Header/Footer
(and moves the menu entry to Edit for clarification). But this solution was not
accepted as an improvement since users do not know how to enable it. See
http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/Re-Minutes-from-the-UX-design-meeting-2018-Dec-06-tc4254107.html#a4254112
for the discussion. So eventually both patches got reverted.

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |ASSIGNED
   Assignee|libreoffice-b...@lists.free |tietze.he...@gmail.com
   |desktop.org |

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296

kompilainenn <79045_79...@mail.ru> changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||79045_79...@mail.ru

--- Comment #9 from kompilainenn <79045_79...@mail.ru> ---
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8)
> Design team decided to disable header/footer by default.

+100500

is it hard to make?

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[Libreoffice-bugs] [Bug 99296] Calc: Disable headers/footers by default

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Samuel Mehrbrodt (CIB)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Assignee|s.mehrbr...@gmail.com   |libreoffice-b...@lists.free
   ||desktop.org

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