Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes - QA related - TSC call 2012-01-26

[Pedro]

Michael Meeks-2 wrote
> 
>   Well - we employ YiFan full time for this
> 
> 
> 
> ... so your work is much appreciated.
> 

Thank you for that info! Now I know who to bug (pun intended) :)

What me work? :)

Best regards,
Pedro

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[Libreoffice-qa] guidelines for filing bugs

[Terrence Enger]

Comments 6, 7, and 8 on bug 45254
"EDITING postgreSQL-SDBC Can not edit data"
 show a
pattern which is unhappily familiar:

Q:  Please tell me X.
A:  But X is obvious.


I wonder if it would be a good idea to say, somewhere in the
wiki pages about filing bugs, something like ...

Please be patient with requests for information which
should be obvious: if everything actually was as it
should be, then there would be no bug to report.
Similarly, a bug may consist of the program basing an
output on an input which *should* have nothing to do
with the calculation of that output.


If this is a good idea, I would welcome suggestions about
wording and a good place to put it.


Thank you, all, for your attention.
Terry.


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes - QA related - TSC call 2012-01-26

[Michael Meeks]

Hi Pedro,

On Mon, 2012-01-30 at 04:08 -0800, Pedro wrote:
> That is because there are fewer developers using the Windows platform and
> there are absurdly very few people in QA (and only a fraction on Windows).

Sure, we need to do things to try to grow interest there, clearly the
efforts to have bug-events can be helpful. IMHO praise, and statistics
around the top  bug reporters / closers etc. helps motivate people
too.

> Initially I found it shocking that in a project (allegedly) used by "25
> million users worldwide" only half a dozen cared to join QA.

Right.

> But then I realize that QA is extremely intensive (and frustrating at this
> rate of release). The other problem is: Developers (e.g. Michael) is paid by
> his company to develop for LO. Which company pays for LO's QA?

Well - we employ YiFan full time for this, and Petr ends up doing some
of this work, and of course we try hard to invest in writing more and
more automated in-tree unit tests that (we hope) over time become more
and more capable, and do the more tedious core QA work of stopping
regressions for us all.

But of course, we couldn't do very much without volunteer support
either in QA, or coding, or admin, or website, or ... so your work is
much appreciated.

All the best,

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes - QA related - TSC call 2012-01-26

[Pedro]

Rainer Bielefeld-2 wrote
> 
> It's really annoying that we have so many WIN build problems what 
> hinders to find regressions early.
> 

That is because there are fewer developers using the Windows platform and
there are absurdly very few people in QA (and only a fraction on Windows).

Initially I found it shocking that in a project (allegedly) used by "25
million users worldwide" only half a dozen cared to join QA.

But then I realize that QA is extremely intensive (and frustrating at this
rate of release). The other problem is: Developers (e.g. Michael) is paid by
his company to develop for LO. Which company pays for LO's QA?

I'm not pinching for a job. Just stating my frustrations with the
community's lack of vision about QA (which is still by far more important,
efficient and user friendly than OOo's QA ever was:) )

Hi can only praise Rainer's and Cor's work in this department! Kudos to you
guys!

Regards,
Pedro

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes - QA related - TSC call 2012-01-26

[Rainer Bielefeld]

Michael Meeks schrieb:

getting the regressions query in front of

more people would be good: [ a nice, short, easy to paste, minute and
re-find stored query for that would be great ;-) ].



Hi,

Petr added Regression query links to
,
and I will prepare some more handy links from my 
 
document what will ease keeping overview and some kind of statement 
proving our success. IMHO we should try something like "reduce number of 
unfixed regressions with every micro release" or similar. If the 
tendency shows that we might not reach rhe goal, we can try to interest 
volunteer developers to think about patches or try to countersteer in an 
other way.


It's really annoying that we have so many WIN build problems what 
hinders to find regressions early.


ATB

Rainer
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes - QA related - TSC call 2012-01-26

[Michael Meeks]

On Sat, 2012-01-28 at 19:00 +0100, Rainer Bielefeld wrote:
> But the positive fact is that acceptance to see regression bugs as "Most 
> Annoying Ones" by definition is growing.

Absolutely; so - one of our issues is bad visibility & communication
between QA and developers; getting the regressions query in front of
more people would be good: [ a nice, short, easy to paste, minute and
re-find stored query for that would be great ;-) ]. Another thing that
developers respond well to is metrics - and frequent reminders :-)

ie. if we have a list of regression bugs that are live in 3.5 and that
we can easily put in front of devs weekly (or so) at the TSC meeting,
that is great. If we have a beautiful breakdown by component - as it
were to increase internal competition / focus to be the most-bug-free -
that can also help :-)

Of course, it is work to generate such statistics; but it also helps us
devs to allocate and prioritise our resources right.

HTH,

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Blocker in 3.5.0Beta3?

[Michael Meeks]

On Sun, 2012-01-29 at 08:20 -0200, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> However, in a customized installation (where I removed tons of useless
> dictionaries), the user interface of the first invokation is in English
> and not in pt-BR.

IIRC, we only install a small subset of the bundled dictionaries on a
per-language basis (or we used to when I last checked) for a default
install.

> This is a serious issue and source of a tsunami of complains.

So - to confirm, it works fine, until you do a custom install ?

Thanks,

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Blocker in 3.5.0Beta3?

[Pedro]

Hi Andras, all


Andras Timar-3 wrote
> 
> Well, yes, it is very unlikely that it can be "fixed" today, providing
> that it requires 3 review, and I still don't understand what the
> problem is. I need a good bugreport first with steps how to reproduce
> the issue.
> 

This is a .0 release anyway, so no one expects it to be perfect :)

I realized that the parallel install should indeed work this way so I can't
help you with this.

Thank you,
Pedro

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Blocker in 3.5.0Beta3?

[Andras Timar]

Hi Pedro,

2012/1/29 Pedro :
> Hi Andras, all
>
>
> Andras Timar-3 wrote
>>
>>     Why don't you remove en-US language files from the install set, if you
>>     don't need them? IS1033=0?
>>
>
> This might be a good workaround but it is not a solution... Do you mean it's
> too late to fix this for 3.5.0?
>
>

Well, yes, it is very unlikely that it can be "fixed" today, providing
that it requires 3 review, and I still don't understand what the
problem is. I need a good bugreport first with steps how to reproduce
the issue.

Thanks,
Andras
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