Re: [Libreoffice-qa] FDO bugzilla setting for following all bug reports of certain module ?
On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 08:13:46AM +0100, Alex Thurgood wrote: I have been rummaging around FDO bugzilla trying to find a way to make myself automatically get CC on bugs filed fot the database module. As yet, I've not found any easier way to do this than by querying for all bugs where the database module is specified, then opening each one and adding myself manually, which naturally is not very efficient, and will take me about 3 years... Anyway, so just wondering if any of you had any ideas how to solve this in an elegant way... Thanks for any pointers. Open: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?component=Databaselist_id=48531product=LibreOfficequery_format=advancedorder=bug_idtweak=1 - click the check all button - write your email in the 'cc-list' field - click commit Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Make use of your karma - feel free to retag/edit posts (Fwd: QA forum feedback)
Christian Lohmaier-3 wrote following feedback was sent regarding the askbot platform. I can only agree - so feel free to make use of your karma to moderate questions (retag, edit, ...) and make use of your votes (so that other people get their karma, and to make it easier to distinguish good/interesting and waste-of-time questions :-) Unfortunately the karma points in askbot are unrealistic (not to say useless). Not even you have enough karma points to do what you are asking others to help with. http://ask.libreoffice.org/faq/ This means that only admins can do that. So it doesn't make sense to ask for help and referring to karma points. BTW I sent another email through the Give Feedback form on Feb 23rd precisely about karma points. I never received a copy of my sent email (I assume you rejected my previous suggestion of enabling the form to send a copy to the author) and I haven't received an answer yet. Regards, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-Make-use-of-your-karma-feel-free-to-retag-edit-posts-Fwd-Q-A-forum-feedback-tp3790179p3793043.html Sent from the QA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Bugzilla queries and NEEDINFO state
Hi, I have just fixed the queries at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Release_Criteria#Blocker_Bug_Nomination to accept the new NEEDINFO status. They show a bit more bugs now. Best Regards, Petr ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Make use of your karma - feel free to retag/edit posts (Fwd: QA forum feedback)
Hi Pedro, *, On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Pedro pedl...@gmail.com wrote: Christian Lohmaier-3 wrote [...] and make use of your votes (so that other people get their karma, and to make it easier to distinguish good/interesting and waste-of-time questions :-) Unfortunately the karma points in askbot are unrealistic (not to say useless). No, they are not. It would be pointless if you could gain moderator powers within two days of spamming askbot. Karma is not a one-shot thing. And yes, LibreOffice askbot-instance did not start in bootstrap mode with reduced karma, but started off with using the default/producition limits. (So I understand that people think that the limits are high) Not even you have enough karma points to do what you are asking others to help with. Of course I have - and you have so too. Since the main way to get karma is to use your votes. People don't have karma, because people don't make use of their votes and don't make use of flagging an answer as correct. So it it a learning process into getting to know how the platform works. Changing it the other way round will not be done. Then the karma-stuff would be useless and we would have a lot more administrational effort. Similar with spam - just flag it as inappropriate and it will be hidden from other users after a couple of different people did so. Becoming a moderator starts with understanding how the platform works, and that is mainly by using your votes freely, giving answeres that are upvoted, flagged as correct. People with enough karma are automatically qualified by the process of earning their karmapoints. And if you're a TDF-member and want to have moderator-level karma, feel free to ping the website list (or me personally) then I'll pull some karma out-of-the-sky for your account. http://ask.libreoffice.org/faq/ This means that only admins can do that. So it doesn't make sense to ask for help and referring to karma points. Maybe my post was misleading - The reason why I posted to the list is to make people use their votes, ask for comments, etc. So yes - so far there are no moderators-by-earnt-karma, only moderators-because-admin. But that only was a part of the post. BTW I sent another email through the Give Feedback form on Feb 23rd precisely about karma points. F*k - I wrote a reply, but forgot to include you... Sorry for that, will resend and make sure to double-check next time. (email of person who asked is not included in reply-to, but only in the message text - I'm so used to only reply-to that I missed that you're not included in the list of addressees. I never received a copy of my sent email (I assume you rejected my previous suggestion of enabling the form to send a copy to the author) Yes, I regard it as pointless. If you want a copy for your own records, send mail to the website list directly. After all it will reach the same group of people (+ a couple more) You receiving a copy will not prevent me from making mistakes when answering, so... When not receiving a reply, you need to resend/ping people anyway, no matter whether you did receive a copy or not. and I haven't received an answer yet. Did forward you the reply now. Sorry again. ciao Christian ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hi Sophie, all, On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 11:29:32AM +0100, Sophie Gautier wrote: So, I'm ready to work on this, but as underlined by Yifan, it would be interesting for us to keep also our Litmus system up to date and synchronized because it's used under several OS and languages so it has a real interest here. The ability of syncing the 2 test bases would be really great as it would avoid duplicating the work for the maintainers. Anyway, I'm here to help, so don't hesitate to tell me what to do :-) Syncing the testbases will be nifty, but for now we should concentrate on getting the existing testcases into checkbox. Beta2 is on 2012-03-29(*) and we should make sure that we have as much tests in there as possible by then as there will be widely distibuted calls for testing like this one: http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/03/opportunity-manual-application-testing.html then and we really should not miss that opportunity. We can discuss syncronizing testcase bases etc. later. The time window is between 2012-03-29 and 2012-04-26 should get what ever testing we can out of that. A we can discuss creating a nifty sync solution after that as we will have some time to the Libreoffice 3.6 and Ubuntu p+1 releases. So: just getting the tests over to checkbox now (manually or by whatever means) should have priority. Do we agree there? Best, Bjoern (*) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04-beta-2 ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hi Bjoern, all, I've added Nicholas in copy of this mail On 02/03/2012 13:50, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote: Hi Sophie, all, On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 11:29:32AM +0100, Sophie Gautier wrote: So, I'm ready to work on this, but as underlined by Yifan, it would be interesting for us to keep also our Litmus system up to date and synchronized because it's used under several OS and languages so it has a real interest here. The ability of syncing the 2 test bases would be really great as it would avoid duplicating the work for the maintainers. Anyway, I'm here to help, so don't hesitate to tell me what to do :-) Syncing the testbases will be nifty, but for now we should concentrate on getting the existing testcases into checkbox. Beta2 is on 2012-03-29(*) and we should make sure that we have as much tests in there as possible by then as there will be widely distibuted calls for testing like this one: http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2012/03/opportunity-manual-application-testing.html then and we really should not miss that opportunity. We can discuss syncronizing testcase bases etc. later. The time window is between 2012-03-29 and 2012-04-26 should get what ever testing we can out of that. A we can discuss creating a nifty sync solution after that as we will have some time to the Libreoffice 3.6 and Ubuntu p+1 releases. So: just getting the tests over to checkbox now (manually or by whatever means) should have priority. Do we agree there? ok, but I won't install ubuntu, setup an environment on launchpad and install bazaar (or do I have to? is it mandatory?). So a little help so that I don't spend all my week-end on this would be: - is this link the good one for test formatting? http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/CaseAndPlanGuidelines - are the tests on Litmus good enough or should I write more? - on this page, there is several tests for Ubuntu/OOo, Kubuntu/OOo, Applications/LibreOffice, etc. What is the one I choose Thanks in advance, Kind regards Sophie Best, Bjoern (*) https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-12.04-beta-2 ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/ -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] test cases quality; was: Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Sophie Gautier píše v Pá 02. 03. 2012 v 14:33 +0100: - are the tests on Litmus good enough or should I write more? Great point. We have only very few test cases in Litmus (less than 50) and the quality is debatable :-/ For example, I see test cases: + create empty Writer document + create empty Calc document I do not think that we need manual tests for this. This basic operation is part of any other complex test. In addition, exactly this is tested within few seconds using the smoketest. Another bunch of tests sounds like: + Translation check of creating a new database + Translation check when creating a table in a database + Translation check for Formula Editor Of course, we need to check that the application is translated but we can't check every dialog manually. Instead of the above particular dialogs, we should check that different elements are localized, for example: + File/New menu - because it consists of optional components that are added from xml registry files + main menu and one submenu + a dialog with tabs, check boxes, combo boxes, itemized list, and other elements + help - because it using another technology than the other dialogs + KDE/GNOME safe dialog because they are done another technology as well + extensions - because the translation is done slightly different way If one submenu is localized, the other submenus should be localized as well if the strings are in pootle. IMHO, we need to discuss what test cases make sense and create a reasonable test cases first. We are still looking for an experienced QA guy who could step in, teach people and drive this forward. Best Regards, Petr ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] test cases quality; was: Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Petr Mladek píše v Pá 02. 03. 2012 v 16:03 +0100: IMHO, we need to discuss what test cases make sense and create a reasonable test cases first. BTW: My (draft) thoughts about how a good test case looks like can be found at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Testing/Test_Case#Good_Test Feel free to update the wiki page. It is not mine. I just entered the initial content ;-) Best Regards, Petr ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] test cases quality; was: Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hi Petr, On 02/03/2012 16:03, Petr Mladek wrote: Sophie Gautier píše v Pá 02. 03. 2012 v 14:33 +0100: - are the tests on Litmus good enough or should I write more? Great point. We have only very few test cases in Litmus (less than 50) and the quality is debatable :-/ For example, I see test cases: + create empty Writer document + create empty Calc document I do not think that we need manual tests for this. This basic operation is part of any other complex test. In addition, exactly this is tested within few seconds using the smoketest. Another bunch of tests sounds like: + Translation check of creating a new database + Translation check when creating a table in a database + Translation check for Formula Editor Well, I don't think you get the purpose of what Litmus was done for. It was for community testing at large, so very easy and short tests to bring interest to the testing. It should have help also localizer to test there version. Just as we did by the past and it worked well. Some spend only 30mn others more that 3 hours because the online tests was only the very basis of larger tests with a set of documents. So it's more about the life of a team, than only a basic test. Unfortunately we don't have the good tool here and no money to develop what could suite our needs. Mozilla was developing a tool but it's not yet done either. Of course, we need to check that the application is translated but we can't check every dialog manually. We had that by the past with the VCLTestool. Instead of the above particular dialogs, we should check that different elements are localized, for example: + File/New menu - because it consists of optional components that are added from xml registry files + main menu and one submenu + a dialog with tabs, check boxes, combo boxes, itemized list, and other elements + help - because it using another technology than the other dialogs + KDE/GNOME safe dialog because they are done another technology as well + extensions - because the translation is done slightly different way If one submenu is localized, the other submenus should be localized as well if the strings are in pootle. It's not about localization only (but it's good for CTL and CJK) , but also about the design of the dialog that allow to see the whole string and then adapt the dialog or the l10n. It's not about to see if it works, it's about the quality of the l10n and the design. IMHO, we need to discuss what test cases make sense and create a reasonable test cases first. We are still looking for an experienced QA guy who could step in, teach people and drive this forward. So lets wait for that guy. Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Make use of your karma - feel free to retag/edit posts (Fwd: QA forum feedback)
Hi Christian, all You seem to be managing the askbot site too personally. Have it your way. So if I want to have a copy of a suggestion or bug report about askbot, I should email to the website mailing list??? (don't bother to answer, I'm done with this topic) Regards, Pedro -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-Make-use-of-your-karma-feel-free-to-retag-edit-posts-Fwd-Q-A-forum-feedback-tp3790179p3793961.html Sent from the QA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] test cases quality; was: Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Petr, First, I don't take anything personal in your mail. I disagree with you but it's nothing personal :) On 02/03/2012 17:26, Petr Mladek wrote: Sophie Gautier píše v Pá 02. 03. 2012 v 16:20 +0100: Another bunch of tests sounds like: + Translation check of creating a new database + Translation check when creating a table in a database + Translation check for Formula Editor Well, I don't think you get the purpose of what Litmus was done for. It was for community testing at large, so very easy and short tests to bring interest to the testing. It should have help also localizer to test there version. Just as we did by the past and it worked well. Some spend only 30mn others more that 3 hours because the online tests was only the very basis of larger tests with a set of documents. So it's more about the life of a team, than only a basic test. Unfortunately we don't have the good tool here and no money to develop what could suite our needs. Mozilla was developing a tool but it's not yet done either. I appreciate that you want to teach people using Litmus. Though, I am afraid that you did not get my point. I don't want to teach them using Litmus, I want them to get an interest, get fun and don't feel harassed by the task. Please, read the above mentioned test cases. One test describe how get into one dialog and asks to check that all strings are translated. Another test cases describes how to reach another dialog where the strings need to be checked The check for the translation is a second purpose of the test, the first purpose is to check the basics functionalities such as Save as, Open, Copy, Past... etc. IMHO, there are hunderts or thousands of dialogs. IMHO, we do not want a test case for every single dialog. We do not have enough people who could create, translate, and process all such test cases. We are testing functionalities and by the same way are checking for basic i18n conversion (numbers, accentuated characters, date, size of the string...) Also I am not sure if would be effective to use Litmus for this type of testing. It might take few seconds to check that all strings are in a given language. It might take longer time until you enter your result in Litmus and select another test case. Litmus should be an entry for approaching QA for the community at large i.e. no language barrier, no technical barrier, a team behind to guide you further in more complex testing. Unfortunately, it's not a tool adapted to our needs. IMHO, we could do much better job here. If we have strings translated in pootle and the build works correctly, all translated strings are used. By other words, if you have translation for 1000 dialogs in pootle, it is enough to QA only 1 dialog. The strings are extracted from pootle by a script and applied in sources by another tool. If one string is used, others are used as well[*]. As said, I'm not speaking about translation. The contents of the test may confuse you when it speaks about localization, but it's only a second purpose of the test, a *while you are here*, please check that the dialog has the good special characters in your language You might say that you need to check layout of the strings that they are not shrinked. Well, we need not check all strings here. It might be enough to check only strings that look risky (translation is much longer) than the original string. No, it's not enough, because most of the time, the team doing the translation is one person only, so you can't remember where and when the translation is longer than the original, and for some languages it's always true. You might say that we should check quality of the translation. I mean if the translation makes sense in the context of the given dialog. Well, this is not mentioned in the current test case. Also, I am not sure if it is worth the effort. We do not change all strings in every release. So, we do not need to check all translations. When you see the amount of strings for the number of people doing translation, having a proof reading of the dialog during QA is not a luxury ;) But I agree, as said it's not the first aim of the tests Of course, we need to check that the application is translated but we can't check every dialog manually. We had that by the past with the VCLTestool. Hmm, how VCLTesttool helped here? Did it checked that a string was localized? Did it checked if a translation was shrinked or confusing? It took a snapshot of each dialog, menu, submenu, etc. When you want to reach a certain amount of quality for you version, it was very useful because you were sure that everything was checked. I don't say that you run it on each version but I did it on each major OOo versions. Instead of the above particular dialogs, we should check that different elements are localized, for example: + File/New menu - because it consists of optional components that are
[Libreoffice-qa] Thread on QA done by l10n teams
Hi all, Just to get some information about l10n and QA and also because it's a way to reach more language community members, I've done a quick poll about the tests that are run on the builds, see the thread here : http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/msg04226.html I'll send a summary of the responses during the week-end Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hi Sophie, On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 02:33:25PM +0100, Sophie Gautier wrote: ok, but I won't install ubuntu, setup an environment on launchpad and install bazaar (or do I have to? is it mandatory?). So a little help so that I don't spend all my week-end on this would be: - is this link the good one for test formatting? http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/CaseAndPlanGuidelines - are the tests on Litmus good enough or should I write more? - on this page, there is several tests for Ubuntu/OOo, Kubuntu/OOo, Applications/LibreOffice, etc. What is the one I choose I cant reach Nicholas right now, if there is no feedback by tommorrow, I will investigate myself. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] test cases quality; was: Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hi Petr, On 02/03/2012 19:21, Petr Mladek wrote: Sophie Gautier píše v Pá 02. 03. 2012 v 18:02 +0100: Petr, First, I don't take anything personal in your mail. I disagree with you but it's nothing personal :) I hope that we could learn from each other :-) yes :) On 02/03/2012 17:26, Petr Mladek wrote: I appreciate that you want to teach people using Litmus. Though, I am afraid that you did not get my point. I don't want to teach them using Litmus, I want them to get an interest, get fun and don't feel harassed by the task. Sure. This is my target as well. The translations checks looked boring on the first look. QA has a great potential to get boring ;) We are testing functionalities and by the same way are checking for basic i18n conversion (numbers, accentuated characters, date, size of the string...) Ok, so one example of the current test: --- cut --- Name: Translation check of creating a new database Steps to Perform: *Open a new database file (New → Database) and check [Create a database] then click on Next button. * Check [Yes, I want the wizard to register the database] and [Open the database for edition] and click on Finish. * Enter a name for the database (using special characters in your language) in the dialog box and click OK. Expected Results: * the database wizard open: all strings in the dialog box and window are correctly localized to your own language. --- cut --- Ok, it checks translation and functionality. Do we really need to check the functionality in all 100 localizations? It's only checked in 5 or 6 language, even less if you look at the poll I've ran on the l10n list. IMHO, if the database opens in English, it opens in all licalizations. We do not need to force 100 people to spend time on this functional test. Do we need to check translation even when the strings were not changed between the releases? yes, because the amount of strings in the database is really big and you need more than two eyes to check for the quality. = I strongly suggest to separate translation and functional checks. It is very ineffective to test them together. you spare some resources, most of the time tests are done by people in their native language. Do you want to run them only in English? Thanks to Rimas, we could mark test cases as language dependent and independent, so we have a great support for this separation. Yes but again, this won't change a lot about the translation of the test cases, testers will need to run them in their language. Litmus should be an entry for approaching QA for the community at large i.e. no language barrier, no technical barrier, a team behind to guide you further in more complex testing. Unfortunately, it's not a tool adapted to our needs. I agree with you. I just say that many of the current test cases sounds crazy as they are and might point people in a wrong direction. yes, this is why Litmus is not adapted. As said, I'm not speaking about translation. The contents of the test may confuse you when it speaks about localization, but it's only a second purpose of the test, a *while you are here*, please check that the dialog has the good special characters in your language Yes, it is confusing because they mix the translation and functional tests. All I want to say is that it is not effective and we should not go this way. Ok lets try without checking for the translation, we can remove the specific directions about language in the test. No, it's not enough, because most of the time, the team doing the translation is one person only, so you can't remember where and when the translation is longer than the original, and for some languages it's always true. We could use some scripting here. Andras is interested into the translations stuff. I wonder if he has time and could help here. You might say that we should check quality of the translation. I mean if the translation makes sense in the context of the given dialog. Well, this is not mentioned in the current test case. Also, I am not sure if it is worth the effort. We do not change all strings in every release. So, we do not need to check all translations. When you see the amount of strings for the number of people doing translation, having a proof reading of the dialog during QA is not a luxury ;) But I agree, as said it's not the first aim of the tests Sure. On the other hand, checking 1000 dialogs because you changed only 20 of them is not luxury as well. agreed We had that by the past with the VCLTestool. Hmm, how VCLTesttool helped here? Did it checked that a string was localized? Did it checked if a translation was shrinked or confusing? It took a snapshot of each dialog, menu, submenu, etc. When you want to reach a certain amount of quality for you version, it was very useful because you were sure that everything was checked. I don't say that you run it on each version but I
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
Hello! If your not able use bazaar feel free to email the ubuntu-qa list. And yes the wiki page you linked is a great format to do them in. If you can take a look at this page, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/Checkbox/Walkthrough it shows what format the tests eventually have to be in for checkbox to use them properly. Submitting a file to the mailing list in a similar format would be best. See the gedit tests for an example: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nskaggs/checkbox/checkbox-app-testing/view/head:/jobs/gedit.txt.in. Does that help? You don't need to use lp if you don't want to, and submit tests in checkbox format if possible. You can submit by emailing the mailing list. Thanks, Nicholas Bjoern Michaelsen bjoern.michael...@canonical.com wrote: Hi Sophie, On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 02:33:25PM +0100, Sophie Gautier wrote: ok, but I won't install ubuntu, setup an environment on launchpad and install bazaar (or do I have to? is it mandatory?). So a little help so that I don't spend all my week-end on this would be: - is this link the good one for test formatting? http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/CaseAndPlanGuidelines - are the tests on Litmus good enough or should I write more? - on this page, there is several tests for Ubuntu/OOo, Kubuntu/OOo, Applications/LibreOffice, etc. What is the one I choose I cant reach Nicholas right now, if there is no feedback by tommorrow, I will investigate myself. Best, Bjoern ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Thread on QA done by l10n teams
On Friday 02 March 2012, 18:26:32 Sophie Gautier wrote in libo-l10n: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/msg04226.html Hi Sophie, all, I'm not subscribed to the l10n list, so I'm trying to answer here. Also, I don't know about others, I just can tell what I'm doing myself: - Are you doing manual tests on the builds? yes, if time allows on most of Beta and RC builds . using Litmus? No, just for lack of time. - Are you running other types of tests yes .which one? en passant silent testing :-) Means: I just install the release in parallel and try to use it as much as possible for my daily tasks. With critical documents, I work on a sandbox copy and replace the original later (only if all went smooth) That way, testing does not take much time (just installing the version and creating a testing copy each time I want to work on a critical document) but is very effective as I perform real tasks (and not artificial test cases) with real data (i.e. sometimes large old documents). BTW, nobody will notice this kind of testing (of course unless a problem or bug comes up). That's why I've suggested to implement some kind of simple logging ability into test builds but unfortunately, this seems to be too complicated for the devs. BTW, I'm doing functional testing only but as I use the localized (German) Version, I hope I will notice l10n problems, too (and have so in past). (I believe, that many many people do such personal silent testing without anybody knowing how many tests were performed on what platform and with which kind of documents) Nino ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] test cases quality; was: Ubuntu/Canonical doing more manual testing for LibreOffice?
On Fri, 2012-03-02 at 19:21 +0100, Petr Mladek wrote: Name: Translation check of creating a new database ... * the database wizard open: all strings in the dialog box and window are correctly localized to your own language. So - this looks pretty odd to me :-) This string cropping problem is a constant annoyance, and yet it seems (to me) that we can verify at compile time that there is little-to-no string cropping (assuming a UI font with a sane width). Surely, as we translate each dialog, we can (at least on Linux with freetype etc.) calculate the size of each string, and check that it doesn't overlap with any other strings in the dialog. Surely we can also check that we have 100% translation by other means - checking the .po files etc. Of course, some sanity check is good to, but if we could automate this - would it save a lot of time ? All the best, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Make use of your karma - feel free to retag/edit posts (Fwd: QA forum feedback)
2012.03.02 14:09, Christian Lohmaier rašė: On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Pedropedl...@gmail.com wrote: I never received a copy of my sent email (I assume you rejected my previous suggestion of enabling the form to send a copy to the author) Yes, I regard it as pointless. If you want a copy for your own records, send mail to the website list directly. After all it will reach the same group of people (+ a couple more) You receiving a copy will not prevent me from making mistakes when answering, so... When not receiving a reply, you need to resend/ping people anyway, no matter whether you did receive a copy or not. It is convenient to have a record of what you have suggested though. Receiving the message also means that the server really works. Plus, not everyone knows that askbot feedback is to be sent to the website list. So, I wouldn't regard it as pointless, and if enabling this feature is as easy as checking a box, I would enable it if I were you. Rimas ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
[Libreoffice-qa] Win7 - message: LibreOffice 3.5 does not work anymore - update
Hi, Related to my previous post: - I installed 3.4.5, ran as Administrator - now Libo starts, but reported JRE was missing - I installed JRE Now I re-installed 3.5 rc1 and everthing is fine now. Appears to me, the message LibreOffice 3.5 does not work anymore actually means that JRE is not installed. If that is correct, we hav to change it, regards -- Luc Castermans mailto:luc.casterm...@gmail.com ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Win7 - message: LibreOffice 3.5 does not work anymore - update
On Fri, 2012-03-02 at 22:42 +0100, Luc Castermans wrote: Related to my previous post: Ho hum. - I installed 3.4.5, ran as Administrator - now Libo starts, but reported JRE was missing - I installed JRE Now I re-installed 3.5 rc1 and everthing is fine now. Hmm. Appears to me, the message LibreOffice 3.5 does not work anymore actually means that JRE is not installed. If that is correct, we hav to change it, That is bad - 3.5.1 (but not 3.5.0) turns off a warning about missing JRE's during extension help indexing on first-ever-start. Beyond that, I'm not aware of what's going on there. Did you remove your JRE after doing an install ? [ even that should not really cause such a warning ]. Did you file a bug ? we'd want some steps to reproduce this too, and we'd want to make it a '3.5 most annoying' bug I think too. Thanks, Michael. -- michael.me...@suse.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Make use of your karma - feel free to retag/edit posts (Fwd: QA forum feedback)
Hi Pedro, *, On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Pedro pedl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Christian, all You seem to be managing the askbot site too personally. Not sure what you mean with this. If it is implying that I'm the über-admin who decides on everything, then no - I'm not the one. Have it your way. Yes, I believe in the karma system, and thus I don't want to change it. So if I want to have a copy of a suggestion or bug report about askbot, I should email to the website mailing list??? (don't bother to answer, I'm done with this topic) My point is: If the request is valid (i.e. not spam), then you will get a reply no matter what. Where's the point in having a copy of the request you sent? It neither proves that the mail reached any of the admins, nor does it prove anything else. If you need it for your records, then the feedback form might not be the most suitable way to provide the feedback. So if you don't receive any response, a copy of your request means absolutely nothing. All your (and other people's) reuqests have been answered promptly (that you didn't receive a a copy of the answer is personal failure, but has nothing to do with the question whether you need a mail of the original request). Having the original request won't help at all. If you don't get a reply, you need to resend or otherwise notice the admins anyway. As in this example where I forgot to add your address to the list of recepients or with the first request where another admin made a typo in your address) ciao Christian ___ List Name: Libreoffice-qa mailing list Mail address: Libreoffice-qa@lists.freedesktop.org Change settings: http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice-qa Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/
