[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|needsUXEval |
 CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |tietze.he...@gmail.com
   |.freedesktop.org|

--- Comment #10 from Heiko Tietze  ---
So lets first get input from the development.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

--- Comment #9 from Regina Henschel  ---
I have only tried to analyze effected areas. Besides the tip to use an
AutoText, I have no strong opinion in what direction to go. The current
handling of frames in Writer is very problematic from file format point of view
(*), so a total new design would likely be necessary.
(*) LibreOffice makes for Writer a distinction, whether a  element
is to be handled as Writer-frame or as graphic text box object, dependent on
the existence of a parent style attribute. Such distinction does not exist in
file format.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|tietze.he...@gmail.com  |

--- Comment #8 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #6)
> But LibreOffice has not implemented the use of this attribute...

Do you recommend to do that? It sounds to me like over-engineering with
disadvantage to the UX because of the complicated workflow. In comment 5 you
give an alternative suggestion how to deal with the problem...

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

--- Comment #7 from Regina Henschel  ---
(In reply to Regina Henschel from comment #6)
> So it would be possible to include a reference to a paragraph style into a
> frame style from point of file format.

not "into a frame style" but "into a frame object". So linking paragraph style
to frame style or the other way round is not possible on _style_ level.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

--- Comment #6 from Regina Henschel  ---
I have to correct me. There is an attribute draw:text-style-name, which refers
a paragraph-style. It can be used as attribute in a  element and in
most other graphic objects. But LibreOffice has not implemented the use of this
attribute with common styles (=styles in UI). It uses it only for automatic
style (=hard formatting in UI) of graphic objects.

So it would be possible to include a reference to a paragraph style into a
frame style from point of file format.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

--- Comment #5 from Regina Henschel  ---
"Styles" are stored in a  element in ODF. Such style belongs to a
"family". In this context the families "graphic"  and "paragraph" and "text"
are relevant. A  of family "paragraph" can have
"paragraph-properties" and "text-properties" but no "graphic-properties". But a
style of family "graphic" can have not only "graphic-properties" but it can
have "paragraph-properties" and "text-properties" too.

A  element has no attribute to link to a style other than its
parent in the inheritance chain. The properties are all directly contained in
the element. You know this from paragraph styles. They have a tab "Font" where
you can set text properties, but you cannot link to a character style.

So what would be possible is, to extend the frame style with tabs for paragraph
and text properties, which were used as default, if a property is not set in
the actual paragraph of the inserted frame.

=

A frame has a structure

   
  
Currently the paragraph style for the  element is "Frame Contents" as
default. We can make it user defined, but it can only be stored in user
settings, not in the file.

=

The workflow contains the steps "convert an existing text into a frame" and the
other way round "convert a frame into an ordinary text". That is independent of
styles and has no effects on file format. Such enhancement of the UI would be
possible.

=

@Zenaan: For your use case and a quick solution, I suggest you write a
paragraph and a marginalia frame with all the needed style settings and then
generate an AutoText from it. For the AutoText you need to select till the
start of the paragraph, which is after the paragraph, to which the frame is
anchored.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

Cor Nouws  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||c...@nouenoff.nl

--- Comment #4 from Cor Nouws  ---
Hi Zenaan,
What type of frame is it? Floating? Size? ..
Thanks - Cor

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

Yousuf Philips (jay)  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||108357


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108357
[Bug 108357] [META] Writer frame/image/OLE style bugs and enhancements
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

Zenaan Harkness  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48
   ||459

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

Zenaan Harkness  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Blocks||48457


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48457
[Bug 48457] FORMATTING - proposal for side headings, (margin headings)
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

--- Comment #2 from Zenaan Harkness  ---
Yes, I mean "Microsoft Office XP" - which is also called version 10.0, and
occasionally called "2002" since that is the year it was introduced. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Office#Versions

My workflow:
I am editing a >1000 page book for a human rights association in Australia, and
it requires many styles.

Since it is a law related book, every paragraph has a marginalia "paragraph
number". Please refer bug #101753 for a very small two page example of legal
marginalia paragraph numbering.

Inserting these is very easy in Microsoft Word, and currently quite awkward in
LO:

- In MS Word, I define a paragraph style to which I am able to attach a frame
style, which correctly places the marginalia "legal paragraph number" (which is
for the subsequent paragraph)
- then to insert a new legal paragraph marginalia number, I go to the beginning
of the paragraph that needs this new legal number
- then insert a new paragraph containing this number - this is very easy
- finally, I simply double-click the "legalNumMarginalia" style I created above
and voi la! I have an instant legal paragraph number, perfectly placed


In contrast, in LO, when I want to create this new legal paragraph marginalia
number, I have to do the following:
- create a paragraph style for the formatting of the legal number
- separately create a correspoding frame style for the placement of the legal
number
- go to start of required paragraph
[- do not insert a new paragraph]
- instead insert a new frame
- now enter the required legal number into the frame
- double click the required paragraph style for formatting of the legal number
in the new frame
- next carefully click the edge of the frame so it is selected
- finally double-click the required frame style to apply the needed frame
properties

This is the quickest sequence I have been able to determine so far in LO. I
really wish there were an easier way to do this.

Sometimes, in some legal documents, I can and do use numbered lists in LO, but
sometimes I have to do things the manual way and in LO this is very time
consuming and not enjoyable.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||tietze.he...@gmail.com

--- Comment #1 from Heiko Tietze  ---
Sorry, I cannot follow you. WordXP means Microsoft Word for Windows XP?
LibreOffice has a lot of style features. Where do you think is room to improve
your workflow?

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101773] link frame style to paragraph style so applying paragraph style also applies frame style to current (or selected) paragraph

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101773

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|difficultyInteresting,  |
   |skillUI, topicUI|
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org,
   ||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
Summary|[UI + UX] - link a frame|link frame style to
   |style to a paragraph style, |paragraph style so applying
   |double click para-style |paragraph style also
   |also applies frame style to |applies frame style to
   |current para|current (or selected)
   ||paragraph

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