[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also|https://bugs.documentfounda |
   |tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33 |
   |173 |

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

--- Comment #10 from Cor Nouws  ---
(In reply to Zenaan Harkness from comment #8)

> Can we get concensus that the navigation aids in this feature suggestion (as
> simply another navigation aid option) DO make sense in customized
> "workspaces" (perhaps for "advanced users", and therefore that this bug
> ought be say "low priority + new feature + depends on workspaces"??

Apparently no consensus, maybe consent .. However, when we arrive at the stage
that we can implement customized workspaces, there will be abundant room and
time for discussion. I might even join myself ;) So keep an eye on it!

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Depends on|33173, 33232|


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173
[Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus
WordPro)
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33232
[Bug 33232] Implement Workspaces (UI arrangements) to better accommodate
different hardware and user preferences
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

--- Comment #9 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Zenaan Harkness from comment #8)
> > Developers can do everything (I'm not a dev). The question
> > is effort and usability. And here we do not agree.
> 
> Can we get concensus that the navigation aids in this feature suggestion (as
> simply another navigation aid option) DO make sense in customized
> "workspaces" (perhaps for "advanced users", and therefore that this bug
> ought be say "low priority + new feature + depends on workspaces"??

Not from my side. You may reopen the ticket and see if someone agrees with you.
LibreOffice is F/LOSS meaning my opinion from the UX POV is just two cent worth
(unless I argue well enough and convince people).

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

--- Comment #8 from Zenaan Harkness  ---
> Developers can do everything (I'm not a dev). The question
> is effort and usability. And here we do not agree.

Can we get concensus that the navigation aids in this feature suggestion (as
simply another navigation aid option) DO make sense in customized "workspaces"
(perhaps for "advanced users", and therefore that this bug ought be say "low
priority + new feature + depends on workspaces"??

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

Zenaan Harkness  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37
   ||134

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

Zenaan Harkness  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79
   ||167

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

Zenaan Harkness  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33
   ||232,
   ||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33
   ||173
 Depends on||33232, 33173

--- Comment #7 from Zenaan Harkness  ---
> Calc is very special in that not only one document is
> open at time but many spreadsheets.

This is a very good point.

Why are we forgetting users (like me) who are trying to cope with a 1200 page
book? If I had some calc-like tabs at the bottom, each tab could be quick way
to jump to a particular page - it's like "new window" but embedded behind the
tabs - very clean and elegant way to provide one form of "dynamic bookmars"
(dynamic, since each tab is another view - and each view can be "watching" any
part of the document. For me this would be a wonderful feature :D


> You will find a similar solution to what you expect
> in Draw where the layers are realized per tabs.

I have not used Draw. Ultimately, I say we should not cram "one size fits all
UI" into "the only available UI" - but this is of course limitation of
developer time at the moment - for example see bug #33232 (workspaces).

When workspaces are available, why we would say NO/WONTFIX to navigation aid
widgets like this bug proposes?

Surely this would fit perfectly into the advanced UI customizability implied by
workspaces in bug #33232 ?


> Actually it is an abuse,

That is a matter of opinion. Of course, genuine improvements notwithstanding,
and new approach may well be better in that example, than "tabs == layers" -
but why limit tabs to have to "== layers" ? see bug #33232


> and the proposal
> in the blog post I added in comment 1 deals with this fact.

That sounds like genuine improvement.

I consider also calc-like navigation aids to be an "advanced user" or "power
user" UI feature, and now that we have found bug #33232 I hope my argument is a
little more compelling now.


Referenced Bugs:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33173
[Bug 33173] Tabbed UI (Writer): Division/section-per-tab (similar to Lotus
WordPro)
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33232
[Bug 33232] Implement Workspaces (UI arrangements) to better accommodate
different hardware and user preferences
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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

--- Comment #6 from Heiko Tietze  ---
(In reply to Zenaan Harkness from comment #3)
> Is it possible to have two different sized toolbars in the one running LO
> instance? We already have toolbars at top and side bar at side.

Developers can do everything (I'm not a dev). The question is effort and
usability. And here we do not agree. Normal toolbars as used in LibO are part
of the system advanced programming interface (API) and themed by the desktop
environment. Hard to recode all functionality from the shell with perfect
system integration.
Keep also in mind that we support all major OS that have many different ways of
look and feel.

(In reply to Zenaan Harkness from comment #4)
> Re "additional "Display Mode" split buttons per module seem reasonable" -
> should this be suggested by changing the bug summary, or filing new bug(s)?

Yes, we can do that. -> bug 101788

(In reply to Zenaan Harkness from comment #5)
> LO Calc, at least in 5.3.0alpha, already has this "navigation bar and tabs
> for sheets" type of toolbar/statusbar, below the normal view for sheets.

Calc is very special in that not only one document is open at time but many
spreadsheets. You will find a similar solution to what you expect in Draw where
the layers are realized per tabs. Actually it is an abuse, and the proposal in
the blog post I added in comment 1 deals with this fact.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   See Also||https://bugs.documentfounda
   ||tion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10
   ||1788

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

--- Comment #5 from Zenaan Harkness  ---
LO Calc, at least in 5.3.0alpha, already has this "navigation bar and tabs for
sheets" type of toolbar/statusbar, below the normal view for sheets.

I think when bug #101774 (named content) with its potential view(s), better
html editing view, bug #86846 and presumably other possible views become
available, this Calc like "navigation bar" may well be quite desirable.

Please add feedback on these comments.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

--- Comment #4 from Zenaan Harkness  ---
Re "additional "Display Mode" split buttons per module seem reasonable" -
should this be suggested by changing the bug summary, or filing new bug(s)?

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

--- Comment #3 from Zenaan Harkness  ---
> do you have any problem switching the view using our [existing] method?

In MSWord I got used to the convenience of editing a page in Normal/Print View,
and switching quickly to another view and back again, by simply clicking the
view button below the page.

(MSWord has more views available than LO.)

This would just be another or a custom toolbar, that could be placed at bottom
rather than at top - the main difference I see from a regular toolbar, is that
it would be thinner than a normal toolbar, that's all. Perhaps this is just a
theme thing?

Is it possible to have two different sized toolbars in the one running LO
instance? We already have toolbars at top and side bar at side.

I would not push/advocate for changing the default/easy/less-busy workspace
layout for new users, but I would like a bit more customizability.

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

--- Comment #2 from V Stuart Foote  ---
Not to "pile on" but concur with the WONTFIX.

In Impress we've now removed the long present top positioned default "Tab Bar"
GUI mode chooser which is what this is suggesting be adopted for all modules.

And in Impress we've replaced the Tab'd mode chooser with a split-button--the
"Display Mode"--button now handling both edit modes and master modes.

If needed for changing modes (e.g. the Writer Web's Normal-Web-HTML source)
additional "Display Mode" split buttons per module seem reasonable.

Stuart

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

Heiko Tietze  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED
 CC||tietze.he...@gmail.com
 Resolution|--- |WONTFIX

--- Comment #1 from Heiko Tietze  ---
This idea will not work in LibreOffice Writer. First of all we have a classic
user interface that is familiar to the users, and they want to keep it. Using
tabs below the content in order to switch the view is also not really
up-to-date (actually very outdated and rejected because the controls are out of
the visual focus). Writer provides view modes per main menu. What I miss a good
reason to put much effort in this task. I mean do you have any problem
switching the view using our method?

Talking about "navigational aids" the LibreOffice way is to present them in the
Navigator. Admittedly there is room for improvements
(https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/07/31/how-the-navigator-may-support-object-handling-in-libreoffice-draw/)
but it doesn't mean to change the interaction concept. So I close this ticket
as WONTFIX.

By the way, you may be interested in our new toolbar (aka notebookbar) that
will add a lot of freedom. Learn more at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar

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[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 101776] place widget navigation aids between status bar and 'document ' view/ sheets/ presentation

[bugzilla-daemon]

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101776

V Stuart Foote  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|easyHack|needsUXEval
   Priority|medium  |low
 CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists
   ||.freedesktop.org,
   ||vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu
Summary|[UI] navigation aids|place widget navigation
   |between status bar and  |aids between status bar and
   |'document' view/ sheets/|'document' view/ sheets/
   |presentation etc, "ala  |presentation
   |PageMaker"  |
   Severity|normal  |enhancement

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