[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 141456] Separate outline browsing and heading browsing in Navigator
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141456 Mike Kaganski changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |WONTFIX --- Comment #12 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #10) > What's really bothering me is seeing non-headings in the tree for headings. > > ... > > I have a document with heading styles applied, but also with paragraph style > which have an outline level. They're not section headings. I don't want to > see them in Headings view in navigator. They have an outline level because I > want them to participate in numbering. The participation of outline levels in numbering means what exactly? I *guess* you mean things like table captions or formula numbering (created using respective numbering fields); and the intended use of that feature is exactly per-chapter numbering - thus the outline level being a synonym of chapter is clear, again. But indeed, one is not forced to use features only as intended - any creative (mis)use is OK. But when one would use outline levels for that, one could limit the outline levels in Navigator to only those levels that are used for chapters. Again: using features outside of their intended use (outline level of paragraphs = (sub)chapter heading) is OK, but not a reason to introduce some changes that make everyone's life (except yours) much harder. Most (MOST) users would be confused (to put it politely) if your proposal is implemented. > I understand that you're stating, or claiming, that Outline level = Heading > level. But as long as different names are used, then they're not. These > words are not synonyms. They are. The "words" in any program are not "words of human language". They are terms, and they mean specific things in the program, and that meaning should not (and cannot) match all the breadth of meaning the human language word bears. The LibreOffice Writer's Outline level is the same as LibreOffice Writer's Heading level. Period. > Outlines = Headings = Chapters > > any of those two false equivalencies is annoying, but how can you seriously > defend both of them, while keeping the triple-inconsistent names? So - your problem in this discussion is just that you believe that you know how we should use words, and if we are allowed or not to use some of them as synonyms. And you know what, you may discuss that (renaming the three to a single term), and it might even make sense - but it is not what this issue is about. Closing WONTFIX again (in fact, it should be INVALID, because WONTFIX means "there's a problem, but resolving it is undesirable", while this is "I do not want to believe that the term means what it really means"). Nothing to discuss here. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 141456] Separate outline browsing and heading browsing in Navigator
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141456 --- Comment #11 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #10) > (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #7) > > and for now, LibreOffice only > > uses outline level of paragraphs to e.g. create ToC. > > Also for numbering. But I'll grant you it's not that much. What's really > bothering me is seeing non-headings in the tree for headings. No one claimed that outline level is only used for ToC, and for nothing else. If you tried to read what I wrote, you could see that "e.g.", which implies "for this, but not only for this", in addition to the contraposition (implied in the whole description, but also explicit in the next sentence discussing that LO does not use heading styles specially). Again: the sentence you incorrectly quotes meant not "outline level is used exclusively for ToC, and for nothing else", but "to build ToC, only outline level is used by default by LO, and nothing else is used to build ToC by default". Sorry for having to clarify this. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 141456] Separate outline browsing and heading browsing in Navigator
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141456 Eyal Rozenberg changed: What|Removed |Added Resolution|WONTFIX |--- Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED --- Comment #10 from Eyal Rozenberg --- Heiko, we're in the middle of a conversation, so please don't just close this as WONTFIX. Anyway... (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #7) > and for now, LibreOffice only > uses outline level of paragraphs to e.g. create ToC. Also for numbering. But I'll grant you it's not that much. What's really bothering me is seeing non-headings in the tree for headings. > what is > the intended *use case* for what you propose; what *real-life problem* > should if solve. I have a document with heading styles applied, but also with paragraph style which have an outline level. They're not section headings. I don't want to see them in Headings view in navigator. They have an outline level because I want them to participate in numbering. I understand that you're stating, or claiming, that Outline level = Heading level. But as long as different names are used, then they're not. These words are not synonyms. You mentioned an official LO definition - can you link to it? I must say this reminds me of another inconsistent annoyance, which is that in LO, Outlines = Chapters, but the project refuses to name things consistently (bug 141452). Oh yes, I see you mentioned this too. So, with this additional artificial synonym, we now have: Outlines = Headings = Chapters any of those two false equivalencies is annoying, but how can you seriously defend both of them, while keeping the triple-inconsistent names? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 141456] Separate outline browsing and heading browsing in Navigator
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141456 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |WONTFIX --- Comment #9 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #7) > what is the intended *use case* for what you propose; what *real-life problem* > should if solve. For now, what you suggest only tries to solve some > (possible) terminological confusion, and tries to do that in such a way to > introduce much greater confusion. +1 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 141456] Separate outline browsing and heading browsing in Navigator
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141456 Buovjaga changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||needsUXEval CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists ||.freedesktop.org -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
