[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 145384] Writer table cells have address scheme that differs from Calc, "A-Z,a-z,AB-AZ,..." vs "A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ,..."; lowercase cell refs are more error prone for cell form
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145384 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|needsUXEval | CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists | |.freedesktop.org| --- Comment #33 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #30) > We may annoy a few users, but there needs to be clear UX agreement of the > approach to correcting this. To me a clean break is better than muddled > attempt to accommodate legacy Writer table cell addressing. ODF conformity is prime likewise compatibility. It should be possible to open documents with old/wrong and new/correct references in upcoming and old versions. OTOH, whether a1 is the first or the 27th column would be unclear to users. I agree that most tables are shorter. So perhaps a clear cut is better than fiddling around with compatibility. But that's rather a decision for the ESC. And we gave enough input. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 145384] Writer table cells have address scheme that differs from Calc, "A-Z,a-z,AB-AZ,..." vs "A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ,..."; lowercase cell refs are more error prone for cell form
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145384 --- Comment #32 from Eike Rathke --- (In reply to Dave McKellar from comment #31) > Changing Writer cell addressing to be the same as Calc means the code could > be shared too. Wishful thinking, but no, it does not. They are completely different implementations and suit different needs. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 145384] Writer table cells have address scheme that differs from Calc, "A-Z,a-z,AB-AZ,..." vs "A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ,..."; lowercase cell refs are more error prone for cell form
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145384 --- Comment #31 from Dave McKellar --- Changing Writer cell addressing to be the same as Calc means the code could be shared too. Besides slightly reducing the codebase this has a UX benefit: the two applications will be in sync for future improvements or bug fixes. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 145384] Writer table cells have address scheme that differs from Calc, "A-Z,a-z,AB-AZ,..." vs "A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ,..."; lowercase cell refs are more error prone for cell form
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145384 V Stuart Foote changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||needsUXEval --- Comment #30 from V Stuart Foote --- (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #29) > Issue seems to be clear (with a lot of facets). If we keep lowercase and > accept =sum() it might break backward compatibility. > > Removing needsUXEval. Sigh, "fixing" this would require major refactoring of Writer tables. Where using =sum() is perfectly acceptable cell reference to 1st, 2nd and 3rd row of the *27th* column of a Writer table! If they don't exist in the table, it alerts. In a Calc sheet those cells would be referenced by . And, entering that same range in lower case is corrected by Calc edit shell to . ODF standard does not permit addressing cells with lower case--they are converted in Calc. Calc complies with ODF, Writer does not. But this is an UX issue requiring assessment of what extent do we need to accommodate the prior usage? And how quickly this needs to be corrected? UX Considerations: 1) how common are tables in our Writer .ODT wider than 26 columns? 2) how disruptive would it be changing Writer formula input to ODF standard? 3) can we let the current addressing remain unchanged? 4) are we obliged to maintain backward compatibility of Writer table addressing for use on prior builds? 5) is it better to fully convert a Writer document to new "corrected" ODF compliance, and when (on opening, or on save)? Or should we attempt more complex handling of supporting both addressing schemes? To me it is pretty simple. "Zero" complaints from OOo/AOO/LO means few if any users of Writer have bumped into the issue of mixed-case addressing in Writer tables wider than 26 columns. They are not common! Not much disruption by fixing it correctly to comply with the ODF document model. Frankly we must correct it (or the world questions our standards compliance--we have enough issues with SVG already). The last two are a bit tougher, and interlinked. I'd argue strongly that the best action is to aggressively refactor handling of formula addressing of Writer tables to be ODF table cell address compliant--eliminate lowercase 52*2 addressing. Then match the Calc shell validation to convert lowercase -> upper case cell ref input. For simplicity .ODT filter import should convert incoming Table cell formulas from the A-Z,a-z,AA-AZ cell addressing to ODF compliant A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ. And we should write back any formulas in ODF compliant form. The document save will complete the conversion--only closing without save should abandon conversion. Any new Writer table formulas will be correct, any old documents would be irrevocably converted. Yes someone on an old build of LO opening a new document would have formula issues--but then the old version is not an ODF compliant renderer. We may annoy a few users, but there needs to be clear UX agreement of the approach to correcting this. To me a clean break is better than muddled attempt to accommodate legacy Writer table cell addressing. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 145384] Writer table cells have address scheme that differs from Calc, "A-Z,a-z,AB-AZ,..." vs "A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ,..."; lowercase cell refs are more error prone for cell form
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145384 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|needsUXEval | CC||heiko.tietze@documentfounda ||tion.org, ||vmik...@collabora.com Severity|enhancement |normal Blocks|120200 |122755 --- Comment #29 from Heiko Tietze --- Issue seems to be clear (with a lot of facets). If we keep lowercase and accept =sum() it might break backward compatibility. Removing needsUXEval. Referenced Bugs: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=120200 [Bug 120200] [META] Update or correct help for features https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122755 [Bug 122755] [META] Formulae in Writer tables bugs and enhancements -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 145384] Writer table cells have address scheme that differs from Calc, "A-Z,a-z,AB-AZ,..." vs "A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ,..."; lowercase cell refs are more error prone for cell form
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145384 --- Comment #28 from Mike Kaganski --- (In reply to Eike Rathke from comment #27) > It's still a bug because ODF 9.2.1 Referencing Table Cells > https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/os/part3-schema/ > OpenDocument-v1.3-os-part3-schema.html#__RefHeading__1415614_253892949 > says that after Z the next column 27 is AA. Yay! :-D > Good luck ;-) I second this. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 145384] Writer table cells have address scheme that differs from Calc, "A-Z,a-z,AB-AZ,..." vs "A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ,..."; lowercase cell refs are more error prone for cell form
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145384 --- Comment #27 from Eike Rathke --- (In reply to Mike Kaganski from comment #17) > Heh, so it is NOTABUG. > Try to insert a table with e.g. 60 columns, and check its columns :-) It's still a bug because ODF 9.2.1 Referencing Table Cells https://docs.oasis-open.org/office/OpenDocument/v1.3/os/part3-schema/OpenDocument-v1.3-os-part3-schema.html#__RefHeading__1415614_253892949 says that after Z the next column 27 is AA. However, if this is corrected then a) import must take care of converting everything above A-Z to the proper notation b) writing the proper values of AA... to file will let older versions address wrong columns c) when reading file and encountering AA... it needs to decide whether that could be the old broken notation for value 53... or the new 27..., likely by inspecting whether it fits into the actual table width d) though not recommended and frowned upon, it may be necessary to act on the value if that is neither LibreOffice nor OpenOffice then assume the proper ODF conform values were written; if it is LibreOffice then its version number could help to determine how to handle c) So, to remedy b) somewhat, when fixing this in master apply changes for current release branches that when encountering AA... do c) but do *not* the conversion of a) and b) to not propagate the fixed values to even older release versions that don't know anything about this. Good luck ;-) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 145384] Writer table cells have address scheme that differs from Calc, "A-Z,a-z,AB-AZ,..." vs "A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ,..."; lowercase cell refs are more error prone for cell form
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145384 V Stuart Foote changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||needsUXEval Summary|Lowercase cell references |Writer table cells have |not tolerated in formulas |address scheme that differs |for Writer table cells |from Calc, ||"A-Z,a-z,AB-AZ,..." vs ||"A-Z,AA-AZ,BA-BZ,..."; ||lowercase cell refs are ||more error prone for cell ||formulas CC||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists ||.freedesktop.org -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
