[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 153600] Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added CC|libreoffice-ux-advise@lists |fit...@ubuntu.com, |.freedesktop.org|vsfo...@libreoffice.org --- Comment #7 from Heiko Tietze --- (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #4) > "Inherit from [SomeParent]" is an imperative-form... while "Next Style > [SomeStyle]" is a merely a noun-phrase, whose completion into an imperative > sentence, or perhaps an adjective-phrase, regarding the style being edited > requires a complex transformation. Sometimes using the ideal form of a phrase makes understanding even harder, and this is such a case to me. I cannot follow your argument (and none at the meeting could) that "Next Style" requires a complex transformation. So up to the native or more experienced English speakers to decide. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 153600] Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600 Eyal Rozenberg changed: What|Removed |Added Resolution|NOTABUG |--- Status|RESOLVED|UNCONFIRMED --- Comment #6 from Eyal Rozenberg --- (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #3) > We discussed the topic in the design meeting. In an inappropriate manner, without giving reasonable prior notice of the discussion despite my having explicitly asked for this not to happen. > Labeling it "Next paragraph style", for example, adds no information. Ah, I see what you mean! The user can't tell whether "next" is the next style or the next-paragraph. Yes, indeed. Well, the label could be, say, "Style for next paragraph", or "Style for succeeding paragraph". A bit longer, but perhaps with just a line extension of the area for a label, it could be a two-liner, e.g. Style for /\ Next paragraph \/ Note that maintaining non-ambiguity would require a bit of delicacy in translation. Based on this and my two earlier comments - changing back to UNCONFIRMED. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 153600] Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600 --- Comment #5 from Eyal Rozenberg --- (In reply to jonathon from comment #2) > This is a documentation/User Guide issue, *not* a UI issue. No, this is a UI issue. I didn't claim there's anything wrong with the documentation. If you mean to say that, in order to understand this part of the UI, the user should read the documentation - that is an inacceptable claim, as I've argued above. The UI must be self-explanatory. Exception to this should be extremely rare, well-justified, and typically involve telling the user explicitly they need to go read some document. This is really not one of those cases. So, please don't quote the documentation to me. If I thought the documentation was lacking or misphrased I would have opened a bug against the documentation component (although TBH it's not obvious whether a bug against Writer documentation should use the Writer component or the Documentation component). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 153600] Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600 --- Comment #4 from Eyal Rozenberg --- (In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #1) > Same argument could be taken for the "Inherit from" attribute and anything > else that is advanced. No, it could not, because "Inherit from [SomeParent]" is an imperative-form sentence describing a feature of the style being edited, while "Next Style [SomeStyle]" is a merely a noun-phrase, whose completion into an imperative sentence, or perhaps an adjective-phrase, regarding the style being edited requires a complex transformation. > I don't think these are beginner options. So another > "solution" might be to trust in the (online) help. > > ... documentation quote ... > > Pretty clear to me. => NAB 1. Help/documentation, in general, should never be considered a solution for a usability problem. It is always a fallback if the actual solution is faulty or imperfect; never something to send the user to consult by default. 2. Indeed, these are not beginner option. So, let me rephrase: These options are not clear to the user who is beginning to explore this part of the dialog. That is not the absolute-beginner user, it's the user who wants to get into more complex management of styles. That is the key user for the UI to target. > And we also have the opportunity to clarify a label per tooltip / extended > tooltip. If we do this it should be done for all items on the tab. Why? Do you believe some of the other labels are unclear? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 153600] Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600 Heiko Tietze changed: What|Removed |Added Resolution|--- |NOTABUG CC||heiko.tietze@documentfounda ||tion.org Status|UNCONFIRMED |RESOLVED Keywords|needsUXEval | --- Comment #3 from Heiko Tietze --- We discussed the topic in the design meeting. Labeling it "Next paragraph style", for example, adds no information. It is reasonably clear what the dialog/label is talking about. Short labels also have the advantage to make the UI feel less cluttered. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 153600] Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600 --- Comment #2 from jonathon --- (In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #0) > In the Style dialogs, under the Organizer page, one of the rows is a > drop-down list with the label "Next Style". > > The function of this (pair of) control(s) is not clear, especially to the > newbie user: This is a documentation/User Guide issue, *not* a UI issue. _Creating and Using Styles: Component_ (Write, Calc, Presentation, Drawing, Formula, Base, 7thComponent ) Each type (Paragraph, Character,Frame, Page, List, Table, Cell, Format, etc.) of style used by that component has one chapter that describes: * what each item within the style composition does; * what the acceptable parameters for that item are; * how the item affects the style overall; * how to utilize that item within the style; Note: The document describes the style type. EG _Page Style_. It does not go into the differences between the styles that are shipped with Libo. IOW, it does not explain why Endnote pages exist, or how to correctly use Footnote pages. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 153600] Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600 Cor Nouws changed: What|Removed |Added CC||c...@nouenoff.nl Version|unspecified |Inherited From OOo -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 153600] Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600 --- Comment #1 from Heiko Tietze --- Same argument could be taken for the "Inherit from" attribute and anything else that is advanced. I don't think these are beginner options. So another "solution" might be to trust in the (online) help. | Next Style | Select an existing style that you want to follow the current style in your document. | For paragraph styles, the next style is applied to an empty paragraph that is created | when you press Enter at the end of an existing paragraph. For page styles, the next | style is applied when a new page is created. Pretty clear to me. => NAB And we also have the opportunity to clarify a label per tooltip / extended tooltip. If we do this it should be done for all items on the tab. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
[Libreoffice-ux-advise] [Bug 153600] Style organizer's "Next style"'s function not clear to user
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153600 Eyal Rozenberg changed: What|Removed |Added Blocks||108456 Keywords||needsUXEval CC||eyalr...@gmx.com, ||libreoffice-ux-advise@lists ||.freedesktop.org Referenced Bugs: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108456 [Bug 108456] [META] Style modify dialog bugs and enhancements -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.
