Re: Deprecation (was Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice)

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi Jim,

I'm not convinced that anyone is actually using the ActiveX
functionality to embed other applications into LibreOffice, AFAICT no
one has mentioned it actually currently working.  Nor has anyone said
they want to work on it.

Having said that I will go ahead with marking it deprecated but *not*
specifying a time to remove it.  This way we give people possibly more
notice but also enable some future developer to remove the support.
In a way, we table the decision on timing until we have more data.

I'm also going to see about modifying the Windows installer to warn in
some way about ActiveX support.

Kind regards,
Bryan

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 1:36 AM, James E Lang <jim+...@lang.hm> wrote:
> But Bryan, Rick is pointing out that ActiveX usage is not limited to
> browsers only. If its usage is deprecated then I assume there is a
> functionally equivalent alternative but the *effective* life cycle of
> applications that use ActiveX is almost certain to stretch past the start of
> LO 6.
>
> I would define effective life cycle of an application as being AT LEAST two
> half lives of the application beyond the first release of the application
> that replaces the final LEGITIMATE release with an 18 month minimum (36
> months if there is no subsequent application update release).
>
> All support for Windows XP has been discontinued by Microsoft yet many
> computers still use it. Requiring a Windows XP upgrade to support EXISTING
> functionality in LO is quite possibly premature even now.
>
> Depreciation means to me that products should cease requiring use of
> something in ongoing development cycles but that for its effective life
> cycle its use WRT previously developed programs will not be abridged.
>
> I'm told that ActiveX has been a security nightmare since it was first
> released. That's probably a better reason to not support it than citing its
> depreciation status.
>
> I realize that on volunteer projects such as LO such standards are a bit of
> a burden but they warrant at least a nodding recognition.
>
> --
> Jim
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com>
> To: "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hod...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Chris Sherlock <chris.sherloc...@gmail.com>, Ashod Nakashian
> <ashnak...@gmail.com>, libreoffice <libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org>
> Sent: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:27
> Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> ActiveX is deprecated by Microsoft and will be less useful (or not at
> all) on newer MS browsers.  I'm unsure if it ever worked (or was
> supposed to) let you embed ActiveX controls into LibreOffice itself.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bryan
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Rick C. Hodgin
> <rick.c.hod...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why are you removing ActiveX from LibreOffice? Excel supports it, and it
>> is
>> desirable for integration with Windows apps like C#, Visual Basic, Visual
>> FoxPro. It allows those other apps to integrate the app directly into
>> their
>> app.
>>
>> I have tried to use it previously, but could not find documentation for
>> it.
>> If it's an unused feature, I'd suggest that's why than for other reasons.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Rick C. Hodgin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: Chris Sherlock
>> Sent: Mon, 11/01/2016 08:21 PM
>> To: Ashod Nakashian
>> CC: libreoffice ; Bryan Quigley
>> Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice
>>
>> That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
>>
>> Out of interest, just how “integrated” is this with the code? If someone
>> wanted to create an external project on GitHub or some place like this,
>> would it be feasible?
>>
>> I guess I’m trying to understand how much of core it touches… to
>> reimplement
>> an ActiveX control outside of the main tree, would a developer need to
>> fork
>> LibreOffice entirely, or could they maintain their codebranch entirely
>> seperately and update the control if necessary after we do our changes to
>> the main codebase?
>>
>> I’m definitely for removing all vestiges of ActiveX from LO, but the more
>> I
>> think about it the more I can see that some corporation somewhere might be
>> affected, far more so than the remove of NPAPI… giving them the option of
>> a
>> control that can be maintained outside of the main project would be nice
>> :-)
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 12 Jan 2016, at 9:37 AM, Ashod Nakashian <ashnak...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Re: Deprecation (was Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice)

[Rick C. Hodgin]

In addition, everything thru Windows 10 currently supports ActiveX, and of
all the various versions of Windows still seen in the wild, Windows 8, 8.1,
and 10 account for only 23% of all OSes, and 26% of Windows OSes.  Windows
7 accounts for 56%, and Windows XP comes in at #2 accounting for 11%.

http://netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10=0

Windows OSes that support these features are not going away anytime soon.
Microsoft may even remove them from future releases, but there will be
users who will not so easily let go of their former feature sets.  There
are too many powerful features in 32-bit Windows and 64-bit Windows to let
them all go.  Microsoft and the rest of the business world may want to move
us all to browser-based operating systems, but there is no real computing
power there.  It changes the user base from owners to renters, and there
are many who will not stand for that, and it will be those people who
continue to use LibreOffice, for example, as they are looking for real
ownership of their machine, and not just being a renter.

Allodial Title -- it makes all the difference. :-)

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin


On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 1:36 AM, James E Lang <jim+...@lang.hm> wrote:

> But Bryan, Rick is pointing out that ActiveX usage is not limited to
> browsers only. If its usage is deprecated then I assume there is a
> functionally equivalent alternative but the *effective* life cycle of
> applications that use ActiveX is almost certain to stretch past the start
> of LO 6.
>
> I would define effective life cycle of an application as being AT LEAST
> two half lives of the application beyond the first release of the
> application that replaces the final LEGITIMATE release with an 18 month
> minimum (36 months if there is no subsequent application update release).
>
> All support for Windows XP has been discontinued by Microsoft yet many
> computers still use it. Requiring a Windows XP upgrade to support EXISTING
> functionality in LO is quite possibly premature even now.
>
> Depreciation means to me that products should cease requiring use of
> something in ongoing development cycles but that for its effective life
> cycle its use WRT previously developed programs will not be abridged.
>
> I'm told that ActiveX has been a security nightmare since it was first
> released. That's probably a better reason to not support it than citing its
> depreciation status.
>
> I realize that on volunteer projects such as LO such standards are a bit
> of a burden but they warrant at least a nodding recognition.
>
> --
> Jim
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com>
> To: "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hod...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Chris Sherlock <chris.sherloc...@gmail.com>, Ashod Nakashian <
> ashnak...@gmail.com>, libreoffice <libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org>
> Sent: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:27
> Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> ActiveX is deprecated by Microsoft and will be less useful (or not at
> all) on newer MS browsers.  I'm unsure if it ever worked (or was
> supposed to) let you embed ActiveX controls into LibreOffice itself.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bryan
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Rick C. Hodgin
> <rick.c.hod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why are you removing ActiveX from LibreOffice? Excel supports it, and it
> is
> > desirable for integration with Windows apps like C#, Visual Basic, Visual
> > FoxPro. It allows those other apps to integrate the app directly into
> their
> > app.
> >
> > I have tried to use it previously, but could not find documentation for
> it.
> > If it's an unused feature, I'd suggest that's why than for other reasons.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Rick C. Hodgin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: Chris Sherlock
> > Sent: Mon, 11/01/2016 08:21 PM
> > To: Ashod Nakashian
> > CC: libreoffice ; Bryan Quigley
> > Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice
> >
> > That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
> >
> > Out of interest, just how “integrated” is this with the code? If someone
> > wanted to create an external project on GitHub or some place like this,
> > would it be feasible?
> >
> > I guess I’m trying to understand how much of core it touches… to
> reimplement
> > an ActiveX control outside of the main tree, would a developer need to
> fork
> > LibreOffice entirely, or could they maintain their codebranch entirely
> > seperately and update the control if necessary after we do our changes to
> > the main codebase?
> >
> > I’m definitely for removing all vestiges of Acti

Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[SOS]

Bryan,

OK but someone must confirm that removing activeX has no influence on 
this API functions and the LO codebase can use the ATL stuff without 
activeX and the "CreateObject" will still been functioning.

greetez
Fernand

On 13/01/2016 5:19, Bryan Quigley wrote:

My understanding is that ATL can do the same thing with or without ActiveX.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Template_Library

Although as I mentioned previously I'm not much of a Windows developer.

Thanks,
bryan

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 3:25 AM, SOS  wrote:

On 11/01/2016 20:32, Bryan Quigley wrote:

I propose we add it to the 5.1 release notes (and 5.2 notes too) as:
Intent to Remove ActiveX support in the 5.2 release.   If this change
negatively affects your Windows application please email the
LibreOffice development list with your use case and plan for moving
off of ActiveX.  We specifically only want feedback if use ActiveX to
embed LibreOffice components into your application.

I aam wondering if  the ActiveX stuff is used to build COM objects from
external DLL's ?
I uses (as example) a Windows videoplayer using basic and our API

Basic code:
if oSimpleFileAcces.Exists(filelocation) then
 MPlayer = CreateObject("WMPlayer.OCX.7")
 MPlayer.OpenPlayer(Filelocation)
endif

Greetz

Fernand



If no response, one week after 5.1.2 (Apr 10) is released let's make
the call to remove it (and update the release notes).  If we do get
responses we can obviously decide to change the plan as needed.

Anywhere else we should post this?

Thoughts?
Bryan

[1]
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.1#Feature_removal_.2F_deprecation
[2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.2

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Chris Sherlock
 wrote:

On 11 Jan 2016, at 10:41 AM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:

To look at this issue from another POV.. If someone showed up today
with an issue with a LO ActiveX control embedded in their application
that didn't work - what would our response be?  It's an outdated
technology that we're not investing in.


It probably shows a lack of adoption, but it doesn’t look like anyone
actually has reported issues with it...


My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in
the
wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit
the
feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using
it,
help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when
ActiveX
will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason
and
support by its consumers.

I'm happy with this.  I'd say a quicker timeframe is fine though.
  From the announce, if no one has found an application that uses
LO-embedded ActiveX remove it in a month or something.  I expect that
if there are some users they might not hear until the install the
version without it regardless of what we do.

Perhaps it should be announced in the release notes, with an actual
version where it will be removed.

Chris

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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Bryan Quigley]

Hi Rick,

ActiveX is deprecated by Microsoft and will be less useful (or not at
all) on newer MS browsers.  I'm unsure if it ever worked (or was
supposed to) let you embed ActiveX controls into LibreOffice itself.

Kind regards,
Bryan

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Rick C. Hodgin
<rick.c.hod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why are you removing ActiveX from LibreOffice? Excel supports it, and it is
> desirable for integration with Windows apps like C#, Visual Basic, Visual
> FoxPro. It allows those other apps to integrate the app directly into their
> app.
>
> I have tried to use it previously, but could not find documentation for it.
> If it's an unused feature, I'd suggest that's why than for other reasons.
>
> Best regards,
> Rick C. Hodgin
>
>
>
>
>  Original Message 
> From: Chris Sherlock
> Sent: Mon, 11/01/2016 08:21 PM
> To: Ashod Nakashian
> CC: libreoffice ; Bryan Quigley
> Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice
>
> That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
>
> Out of interest, just how “integrated” is this with the code? If someone
> wanted to create an external project on GitHub or some place like this,
> would it be feasible?
>
> I guess I’m trying to understand how much of core it touches… to reimplement
> an ActiveX control outside of the main tree, would a developer need to fork
> LibreOffice entirely, or could they maintain their codebranch entirely
> seperately and update the control if necessary after we do our changes to
> the main codebase?
>
> I’m definitely for removing all vestiges of ActiveX from LO, but the more I
> think about it the more I can see that some corporation somewhere might be
> affected, far more so than the remove of NPAPI… giving them the option of a
> control that can be maintained outside of the main project would be nice :-)
>
> Chris
>
> On 12 Jan 2016, at 9:37 AM, Ashod Nakashian <ashnak...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Anywhere else we should post this?
>>
>
> Ideally the note would show up unintrusively upon loading/using the ActiveX
> itself. Unfortunately we can't show a message box or some such UI, in case
> the ActiveX is used non-interactively (in which case it'd block forever,
> becoming unusable).
>
> So the next best thing to do is include the note in the installation, which
> should be hard to miss if made prominent (unless automated in silent mode).
>
> This would get the attention of possibly the users, if not the developers
> (who might not even test out new versions as they come out, and expect
> things to work as before). Users can contact developers, I expect, or at
> least plan accordingly. Regardless, all we want is to give advance warning
> before the day someone installs a newer version and be met with the surprise
> of missing ActiveX altogether.
>
> The installation and release notes seem to be the most reasonable places, if
> not upon using the ActiveX itself. Unless others have better ideas.
>
>
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Deprecation (was Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice)

[James E Lang]

But Bryan, Rick is pointing out that ActiveX usage is not limited to browsers 
only. If its usage is deprecated then I assume there is a functionally 
equivalent alternative but the *effective* life cycle of applications that use 
ActiveX is almost certain to stretch past the start of LO 6.

I would define effective life cycle of an application as being AT LEAST two 
half lives of the application beyond the first release of the application that 
replaces the final LEGITIMATE release with an 18 month minimum (36 months if 
there is no subsequent application update release). 

All support for Windows XP has been discontinued by Microsoft yet many 
computers still use it. Requiring a Windows XP upgrade to support EXISTING 
functionality in LO is quite possibly premature even now.

Depreciation means to me that products should cease requiring use of something 
in ongoing development cycles but that for its effective life cycle its use WRT 
previously developed programs will not be abridged. 

I'm told that ActiveX has been a security nightmare since it was first 
released. That's probably a better reason to not support it than citing its 
depreciation status.

I realize that on volunteer projects such as LO such standards are a bit of a 
burden but they warrant at least a nodding recognition. 

-- 
Jim 

-Original Message-
From: Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com>
To: "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hod...@gmail.com>
Cc: Chris Sherlock <chris.sherloc...@gmail.com>, Ashod Nakashian 
<ashnak...@gmail.com>, libreoffice <libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org>
Sent: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 20:27
Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

Hi Rick,

ActiveX is deprecated by Microsoft and will be less useful (or not at
all) on newer MS browsers.  I'm unsure if it ever worked (or was
supposed to) let you embed ActiveX controls into LibreOffice itself.

Kind regards,
Bryan

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Rick C. Hodgin
<rick.c.hod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why are you removing ActiveX from LibreOffice? Excel supports it, and it is
> desirable for integration with Windows apps like C#, Visual Basic, Visual
> FoxPro. It allows those other apps to integrate the app directly into their
> app.
>
> I have tried to use it previously, but could not find documentation for it.
> If it's an unused feature, I'd suggest that's why than for other reasons.
>
> Best regards,
> Rick C. Hodgin
>
>
>
>
>  Original Message 
> From: Chris Sherlock
> Sent: Mon, 11/01/2016 08:21 PM
> To: Ashod Nakashian
> CC: libreoffice ; Bryan Quigley
> Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice
>
> That sounds pretty reasonable to me.
>
> Out of interest, just how “integrated” is this with the code? If someone
> wanted to create an external project on GitHub or some place like this,
> would it be feasible?
>
> I guess I’m trying to understand how much of core it touches… to reimplement
> an ActiveX control outside of the main tree, would a developer need to fork
> LibreOffice entirely, or could they maintain their codebranch entirely
> seperately and update the control if necessary after we do our changes to
> the main codebase?
>
> I’m definitely for removing all vestiges of ActiveX from LO, but the more I
> think about it the more I can see that some corporation somewhere might be
> affected, far more so than the remove of NPAPI… giving them the option of a
> control that can be maintained outside of the main project would be nice :-)
>
> Chris
>
> On 12 Jan 2016, at 9:37 AM, Ashod Nakashian <ashnak...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Anywhere else we should post this?
>>
>
> Ideally the note would show up unintrusively upon loading/using the ActiveX
> itself. Unfortunately we can't show a message box or some such UI, in case
> the ActiveX is used non-interactively (in which case it'd block forever,
> becoming unusable).
>
> So the next best thing to do is include the note in the installation, which
> should be hard to miss if made prominent (unless automated in silent mode).
>
> This would get the attention of possibly the users, if not the developers
> (who might not even test out new versions as they come out, and expect
> things to work as before). Users can contact developers, I expect, or at
> least plan accordingly. Regardless, all we want is to give advance warning
> before the day someone installs a newer version and be met with the surprise
> of missing ActiveX altogether.
>
> The installation and release notes seem to be the most reasonable places, if
> not upon using the ActiveX itself. Unless others have better ideas.
>
>
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[SOS]

On 13/01/2016 5:27, Bryan Quigley wrote:

Hi Rick,

ActiveX is deprecated by Microsoft and will be less useful (or not at
all) on newer MS browsers.  I'm unsure if it ever worked (or was
supposed to) let you embed ActiveX controls into LibreOffice itself.


Basic code running a Windows Mediaplayer:

 if oSimpleFileAcces.Exists(filelocation) then
MPlayer = CreateObject("WMPlayer.OCX.7")
MPlayer.OpenPlayer(Filelocation)
endif

works still fine under 5.1.0



Kind regards,
Bryan

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Rick C. Hodgin
<rick.c.hod...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why are you removing ActiveX from LibreOffice? Excel supports it, and it is
desirable for integration with Windows apps like C#, Visual Basic, Visual
FoxPro. It allows those other apps to integrate the app directly into their
app.

I have tried to use it previously, but could not find documentation for it.
If it's an unused feature, I'd suggest that's why than for other reasons.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin




 Original Message 
From: Chris Sherlock
Sent: Mon, 11/01/2016 08:21 PM
To: Ashod Nakashian
CC: libreoffice ; Bryan Quigley
Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Out of interest, just how “integrated” is this with the code? If someone
wanted to create an external project on GitHub or some place like this,
would it be feasible?

I guess I’m trying to understand how much of core it touches… to reimplement
an ActiveX control outside of the main tree, would a developer need to fork
LibreOffice entirely, or could they maintain their codebranch entirely
seperately and update the control if necessary after we do our changes to
the main codebase?

I’m definitely for removing all vestiges of ActiveX from LO, but the more I
think about it the more I can see that some corporation somewhere might be
affected, far more so than the remove of NPAPI… giving them the option of a
control that can be maintained outside of the main project would be nice :-)

Chris

On 12 Jan 2016, at 9:37 AM, Ashod Nakashian <ashnak...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com> wrote:


Anywhere else we should post this?


Ideally the note would show up unintrusively upon loading/using the ActiveX
itself. Unfortunately we can't show a message box or some such UI, in case
the ActiveX is used non-interactively (in which case it'd block forever,
becoming unusable).

So the next best thing to do is include the note in the installation, which
should be hard to miss if made prominent (unless automated in silent mode).

This would get the attention of possibly the users, if not the developers
(who might not even test out new versions as they come out, and expect
things to work as before). Users can contact developers, I expect, or at
least plan accordingly. Regardless, all we want is to give advance warning
before the day someone installs a newer version and be met with the surprise
of missing ActiveX altogether.

The installation and release notes seem to be the most reasonable places, if
not upon using the ActiveX itself. Unless others have better ideas.



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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[SOS]

On 11/01/2016 20:32, Bryan Quigley wrote:

I propose we add it to the 5.1 release notes (and 5.2 notes too) as:
Intent to Remove ActiveX support in the 5.2 release.   If this change
negatively affects your Windows application please email the
LibreOffice development list with your use case and plan for moving
off of ActiveX.  We specifically only want feedback if use ActiveX to
embed LibreOffice components into your application.
I aam wondering if  the ActiveX stuff is used to build COM objects from 
external DLL's ?

I uses (as example) a Windows videoplayer using basic and our API

Basic code:
if oSimpleFileAcces.Exists(filelocation) then
MPlayer = CreateObject("WMPlayer.OCX.7")
MPlayer.OpenPlayer(Filelocation)
endif

Greetz

Fernand




If no response, one week after 5.1.2 (Apr 10) is released let's make
the call to remove it (and update the release notes).  If we do get
responses we can obviously decide to change the plan as needed.

Anywhere else we should post this?

Thoughts?
Bryan

[1] 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.1#Feature_removal_.2F_deprecation
[2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.2

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Chris Sherlock
 wrote:

On 11 Jan 2016, at 10:41 AM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:

To look at this issue from another POV.. If someone showed up today
with an issue with a LO ActiveX control embedded in their application
that didn't work - what would our response be?  It's an outdated
technology that we're not investing in.


It probably shows a lack of adoption, but it doesn’t look like anyone actually 
has reported issues with it...


My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in the
wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit the
feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using it,
help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when ActiveX
will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason and
support by its consumers.

I'm happy with this.  I'd say a quicker timeframe is fine though.
 From the announce, if no one has found an application that uses
LO-embedded ActiveX remove it in a month or something.  I expect that
if there are some users they might not hear until the install the
version without it regardless of what we do.

Perhaps it should be announced in the release notes, with an actual version 
where it will be removed.

Chris

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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[James E Lang]

-Original Message-
From: Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com>
To: libreoffice <libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org>
Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 15:41
Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

-->8=

>My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in the 
>wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit the 
>feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using it, 
>help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when ActiveX 
>will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason and 
>support by its consumers.

[Just to toss in a comment from a NOT NECESSARILY typical USER, I would 
probably fail to see any depreciation notice unless it were thrown in my face 
each time I used the feature until I say (in effect), "all right, Enough 
Already, SHUT UP!" aka, "Don't show this notice again." The same should apply 
to revising any existing menu accelerators. --jl]

-->8=

-- 
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Rick C. Hodgin]

If you search for "Microsoft Excel Automation" you'll find many references
online of how ActiveX is used in other applications to allow the Excel
engine to compute things in a spreadsheet form.  Were the same ability
well-documented in LibreOffice, many people would switch as LibreOffice is
free, and Excel costs hundreds of dollars.

I urge you not to remove it, but to improve it for simpler integration.  It
should work like this:

lo = CreateObject("libreoffice.application")
lo.open("c:\path\to\my\document\file.ext")
lo.visible = .t.

And in that way, an application can directly integrate operations into
their app which loads LibreOffice.  Note that these examples are in Visual
Basic, but the same general form works from any application, including C++
(see below):

Here are some automation examples for Excel, Word, Outlook, and PowerPoint:
Excel:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/219151
Word:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/316383
Outlook:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/220595

A more example-by-example based tutorial:
PowerPoint:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb871574%28v=vs.80%29.aspx

Here's a code snippet on how to access ActiveX from another application
using C++ from MSDN:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/196776

ActiveX allows applications to integrate each other, and to have windowed
portions within an application which are actually a "portal" through to the
other application, though it appears to be fully integrated.  It is a
powerful tool.  And as I say, I have not used LibreOffice for integration
because I could not find good documentation on how to do it, whereas there
are many online resources on how to use Microsoft Office integration.  If
the documentation were better, Windows people would use it as it is highly
desirable.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin


On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:52 AM, James E Lang <jim+...@lang.hm> wrote:

>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com>
> To: libreoffice <libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org>
> Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 15:41
> Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice
>
> -->8=
>
> >My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in the
> wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit the
> feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using it,
> help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when ActiveX
> will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason and
> support by its consumers.
>
> [Just to toss in a comment from a NOT NECESSARILY typical USER, I would
> probably fail to see any depreciation notice unless it were thrown in my
> face each time I used the feature until I say (in effect), "all right,
> Enough Already, SHUT UP!" aka, "Don't show this notice again." The same
> should apply to revising any existing menu accelerators. --jl]
>
> -->8=
>
> --
> Jim
> ___
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> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Rick C. Hodgin]

PM, Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hod...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> If you search for "Microsoft Excel Automation" you'll find many references
>> online of how ActiveX is used in other applications to allow the Excel
>> engine to compute things in a spreadsheet form.  Were the same ability
>> well-documented in LibreOffice, many people would switch as LibreOffice is
>> free, and Excel costs hundreds of dollars.
>>
>> I urge you not to remove it, but to improve it for simpler integration.
>> It
>> should work like this:
>>
>> lo = CreateObject("libreoffice.application")
>> lo.open("c:\path\to\my\document\file.ext")
>> lo.visible = .t.
>>
>> And in that way, an application can directly integrate operations into
>> their app which loads LibreOffice.  Note that these examples are in Visual
>> Basic, but the same general form works from any application, including C++
>> (see below):
>>
>> Here are some automation examples for Excel, Word, Outlook, and
>> PowerPoint:
>> Excel:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/219151
>> Word:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/316383
>> Outlook:  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/220595
>>
>> A more example-by-example based tutorial:
>> PowerPoint:
>> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb871574%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
>>
>> Here's a code snippet on how to access ActiveX from another application
>> using C++ from MSDN:
>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/196776
>>
>> ActiveX allows applications to integrate each other, and to have windowed
>> portions within an application which are actually a "portal" through to
>> the
>> other application, though it appears to be fully integrated.  It is a
>> powerful tool.  And as I say, I have not used LibreOffice for integration
>> because I could not find good documentation on how to do it, whereas there
>> are many online resources on how to use Microsoft Office integration.  If
>> the documentation were better, Windows people would use it as it is highly
>> desirable.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Rick C. Hodgin
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:52 AM, James E Lang <jim+...@lang.hm> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com>
>> > To: libreoffice <libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org>
>> > Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 15:41
>> > Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice
>> >
>> > -->8=
>> >
>> > >My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in
>> the
>> > wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit
>> the
>> > feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using
>> it,
>> > help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when
>> ActiveX
>> > will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason
>> and
>> > support by its consumers.
>> >
>> > [Just to toss in a comment from a NOT NECESSARILY typical USER, I would
>> > probably fail to see any depreciation notice unless it were thrown in my
>> > face each time I used the feature until I say (in effect), "all right,
>> > Enough Already, SHUT UP!" aka, "Don't show this notice again." The same
>> > should apply to revising any existing menu accelerators. --jl]
>> >
>> > -->8=
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jim
>> > ___
>> > LibreOffice mailing list
>> > LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
>> > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
>> Problems?
>> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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>> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
>> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
>> deleted
>>
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[timofonic timofonic]

sdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb871574%28v=vs.80%29.aspx
>
> Here's a code snippet on how to access ActiveX from another application
> using C++ from MSDN:
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/196776
>
> ActiveX allows applications to integrate each other, and to have windowed
> portions within an application which are actually a "portal" through to the
> other application, though it appears to be fully integrated.  It is a
> powerful tool.  And as I say, I have not used LibreOffice for integration
> because I could not find good documentation on how to do it, whereas there
> are many online resources on how to use Microsoft Office integration.  If
> the documentation were better, Windows people would use it as it is highly
> desirable.
>
> Best regards,
> Rick C. Hodgin
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:52 AM, James E Lang <jim+...@lang.hm> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Bryan Quigley <gqu...@gmail.com>
> > To: libreoffice <libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org>
> > Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2016 15:41
> > Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice
> >
> > -->8=
> >
> > >My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in the
> > wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit
> the
> > feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using
> it,
> > help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when
> ActiveX
> > will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason
> and
> > support by its consumers.
> >
> > [Just to toss in a comment from a NOT NECESSARILY typical USER, I would
> > probably fail to see any depreciation notice unless it were thrown in my
> > face each time I used the feature until I say (in effect), "all right,
> > Enough Already, SHUT UP!" aka, "Don't show this notice again." The same
> > should apply to revising any existing menu accelerators. --jl]
> >
> > -->8=
> >
> > --
> > Jim
> > ___
> > LibreOffice mailing list
> > LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
> > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
> >
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org
> Problems?
> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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> List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/
> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Anthonys Lists]

On 12/01/2016 15:36, timofonic timofonic wrote:

I would love:

- Writer: The best of a "text processor". Become a powerful ide. Able 
to edit using markup languages. Able to use DVCS like Git.


You've got me on my hobbyhorse :-) Both emacs and (el)vi(m)(s), iirc, 
allow multiple edit windows on the same document. Okay, Michael has said 
with Writer's then current - I don't know how much it's been cleaned up 
since then - internals that is pretty much impossible. But if we can get 
multiple windows on the one document, then implementing WordPerfect's 
"reveal codes" mode should be incredibly simple - just have one window 
in wysiwyg mode, and the other in markup mode.


Pull that off, and you'll have all the old greybeard WP power users 
crying in delight ...


Cheers,
Wol
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Tor Lillqvist]

OK, now that "reveal codes" was brought up, this thread definitely has
jumped the shark.

--tml
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Ashod Nakashian]

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:
>
>
> Anywhere else we should post this?
>
>
Ideally the note would show up unintrusively upon loading/using the ActiveX
itself. Unfortunately we can't show a message box or some such UI, in case
the ActiveX is used non-interactively (in which case it'd block forever,
becoming unusable).

So the next best thing to do is *include the note in the installation*,
which should be hard to miss if made prominent (unless automated in silent
mode).

This would get the attention of possibly the users, if not the developers
(who might not even test out new versions as they come out, and expect
things to work as before). Users can contact developers, I expect, or at
least plan accordingly. Regardless, all we want is to give advance warning
before the day someone installs a newer version and be met with the
surprise of missing ActiveX altogether.

The installation and release notes seem to be the most reasonable places,
if not upon using the ActiveX itself. Unless others have better ideas.
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Rick C. Hodgin]

Why are you removing ActiveX from LibreOffice?  Excel supports it, and it is desirable for integration with Windows apps like C#, Visual Basic, Visual FoxPro.  It allows those other apps to integrate the app directly into their app.I have tried to use it previously, but could not find documentation for it.  If it's an unused feature, I'd suggest that's why than for other reasons.Best regards,Rick C. Hodgin Original Message  From: Chris Sherlock  Sent: Mon, 11/01/2016 08:21 PM To: Ashod Nakashian  CC: libreoffice ; Bryan Quigley  Subject: Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOfficeThat sounds pretty reasonable to me. Out of interest, just how “integrated” is this with the code? If someone wanted to create an external project on GitHub or some place like this, would it be feasible?I guess I’m trying to understand how much of core it touches… to reimplement an ActiveX control outside of the main tree, would a developer need to fork LibreOffice entirely, or could they maintain their codebranch entirely seperately and update the control if necessary after we do our changes to the main codebase?I’m definitely for removing all vestiges of ActiveX from LO, but the more I think about it the more I can see that some corporation somewhere might be affected, far more so than the remove of NPAPI… giving them the option of a control that can be maintained outside of the main project would be nice :-)ChrisOn 12 Jan 2016, at 9:37 AM, Ashod Nakashian  wrote:On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:

Anywhere else we should post this?Ideally the note would show up unintrusively upon loading/using the ActiveX itself. Unfortunately we can't show a message box or some such UI, in case the ActiveX is used non-interactively (in which case it'd block forever, becoming unusable).So the next best thing to do is include the note in the installation, which should be hard to miss if made prominent (unless automated in silent mode).This would get the attention of possibly the users, if not the developers (who might not even test out new versions as they come out, and expect things to work as before). Users can contact developers, I expect, or at least plan accordingly. Regardless, all we want is to give advance warning before the day someone installs a newer version and be met with the surprise of missing ActiveX altogether.The installation and release notes seem to be the most reasonable places, if not upon using the ActiveX itself. Unless others have better ideas.
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Chris Sherlock]

That sounds pretty reasonable to me. 

Out of interest, just how “integrated” is this with the code? If someone wanted 
to create an external project on GitHub or some place like this, would it be 
feasible?

I guess I’m trying to understand how much of core it touches… to reimplement an 
ActiveX control outside of the main tree, would a developer need to fork 
LibreOffice entirely, or could they maintain their codebranch entirely 
seperately and update the control if necessary after we do our changes to the 
main codebase?

I’m definitely for removing all vestiges of ActiveX from LO, but the more I 
think about it the more I can see that some corporation somewhere might be 
affected, far more so than the remove of NPAPI… giving them the option of a 
control that can be maintained outside of the main project would be nice :-)

Chris

> On 12 Jan 2016, at 9:37 AM, Ashod Nakashian  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Bryan Quigley  > wrote:
> 
> Anywhere else we should post this?
> 
> 
> Ideally the note would show up unintrusively upon loading/using the ActiveX 
> itself. Unfortunately we can't show a message box or some such UI, in case 
> the ActiveX is used non-interactively (in which case it'd block forever, 
> becoming unusable).
> 
> So the next best thing to do is include the note in the installation, which 
> should be hard to miss if made prominent (unless automated in silent mode).
> 
> This would get the attention of possibly the users, if not the developers 
> (who might not even test out new versions as they come out, and expect things 
> to work as before). Users can contact developers, I expect, or at least plan 
> accordingly. Regardless, all we want is to give advance warning before the 
> day someone installs a newer version and be met with the surprise of missing 
> ActiveX altogether.
> 
> The installation and release notes seem to be the most reasonable places, if 
> not upon using the ActiveX itself. Unless others have better ideas.
> 

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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Bryan Quigley]

I propose we add it to the 5.1 release notes (and 5.2 notes too) as:
Intent to Remove ActiveX support in the 5.2 release.   If this change
negatively affects your Windows application please email the
LibreOffice development list with your use case and plan for moving
off of ActiveX.  We specifically only want feedback if use ActiveX to
embed LibreOffice components into your application.

If no response, one week after 5.1.2 (Apr 10) is released let's make
the call to remove it (and update the release notes).  If we do get
responses we can obviously decide to change the plan as needed.

Anywhere else we should post this?

Thoughts?
Bryan

[1] 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.1#Feature_removal_.2F_deprecation
[2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.2

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Chris Sherlock
 wrote:
>
>> On 11 Jan 2016, at 10:41 AM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:
>>
>> To look at this issue from another POV.. If someone showed up today
>> with an issue with a LO ActiveX control embedded in their application
>> that didn't work - what would our response be?  It's an outdated
>> technology that we're not investing in.
>>
>
> It probably shows a lack of adoption, but it doesn’t look like anyone 
> actually has reported issues with it...
>
>>> My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in the
>>> wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit the
>>> feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using it,
>>> help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when ActiveX
>>> will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason and
>>> support by its consumers.
>>
>> I'm happy with this.  I'd say a quicker timeframe is fine though.
>> From the announce, if no one has found an application that uses
>> LO-embedded ActiveX remove it in a month or something.  I expect that
>> if there are some users they might not hear until the install the
>> version without it regardless of what we do.
>
> Perhaps it should be announced in the release notes, with an actual version 
> where it will be removed.
>
> Chris
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Chris Sherlock]

> On 11 Jan 2016, at 10:41 AM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:
> 
> To look at this issue from another POV.. If someone showed up today
> with an issue with a LO ActiveX control embedded in their application
> that didn't work - what would our response be?  It's an outdated
> technology that we're not investing in.
> 

It probably shows a lack of adoption, but it doesn’t look like anyone actually 
has reported issues with it...

>> My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in the
>> wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit the
>> feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using it,
>> help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when ActiveX
>> will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason and
>> support by its consumers.
> 
> I'm happy with this.  I'd say a quicker timeframe is fine though.
> From the announce, if no one has found an application that uses
> LO-embedded ActiveX remove it in a month or something.  I expect that
> if there are some users they might not hear until the install the
> version without it regardless of what we do.

Perhaps it should be announced in the release notes, with an actual version 
where it will be removed. 

Chris
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Chris Sherlock]

So I believe that we haven’t come to any firm conclusion on this issue. 

There is a patch in gerrit currently, I’m a bit concerned it might be pushed 
before this is concretely decided. 

What is our position on ActiveX? 

Michael raises a pretty good point, and there are others who have said they 
don’t want this removed. I had thought that this wasn’t going to happen now… 

Chris

> On 5 Jan 2016, at 7:00 AM, Michael Stahl  wrote:
> 
> On 30.12.2015 21:02, Bryan Quigley wrote:
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> Recently it was decided to remove the rest of NPAPI support [1] which
>> got me thinking about the other Windows specific plugin tech -
>> ActiveX.
>> 
>> It seems ActiveX is very much no longer recommended by Microsoft and
>> it seems to not work by default for IE10/11 on Windows 7 and up.  Any
>> objections to removing?
> 
> i don't think that a LO browser plugin is a terribly good idea, so no
> objection to removing that.
> 
>> AFAICT this would just be removing embedding LO into IE.
> 
> however, isn't it the case that ActiveX components may not be used just
> from IE, but from any Win32 application?
> 
> that sounds like a potentially more useful embedding use-case, similar
> to "officebean" and "LibreOfficeKit", but for developers that are
> familiar with Win32 APIs.
> 
> (or would that be something else that also happens to be called
> "ActiveX" but is not actually implemented by LO's so_activex library?)
> 
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Ashod Nakashian]

On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 8:44 AM, Chris Sherlock 
wrote:

> What is our position on ActiveX?
>

As Michael accurately noted, ActiveX is for more than browser embedding.
It's a generic framework for cross-language modules, which IE simply
capitalized on. It is used quite heavily even in .Net applications in
certain areas, but far better hidden and isolated that it seems like the
forgotten technology that it is from the 90s. However, it's mostly used by
and for legacy applications and is likely to diminish in adoption.

So even though it's likely that we do have consumers of LO ActiveX (outside
of IE,) I think the far more interesting and comment-worthy point is that
we don't seem to be actively supporting our ActiveX layer (could it be
broken or crippled?).

My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in the
wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit the
feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using it,
help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when ActiveX
will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason and
support by its consumers.

We could tentatively mark 6.0 as the first major release to remove ActiveX.
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Bryan Quigley]

I missed a couple of posts being off list, and some from Gerrit comments.

>(1)And the cost of maintaining it is currently near zero, no?
I don't think so, it's likely more of a maintenance cost than NPAPI
was. I'm not an expert but it makes our Windows builds more complex.

>(2)As Michael accurately noted, ActiveX is for more than browser embedding.
>It's a generic framework for cross-language modules, which IE simply
>capitalized on.

From my admittedly limited understanding (I'm much more a Linux dev)
users can still use the more modern Active Template Library [3] to
accomplish the same goal.  I purposely didn't try to remove any of
this support.

To look at this issue from another POV.. If someone showed up today
with an issue with a LO ActiveX control embedded in their application
that didn't work - what would our response be?  It's an outdated
technology that we're not investing in.

>My position on ActiveX is to leave it (lest we break applications in the
> wild,) and to *announce its deprecation* with two goals: first, solicit the
> feedback of LO ActiveX consumers and, if so inclined to continue using it,
> help in its support. And second, to flag a date in the future when ActiveX
> will be completely removed from LO codebase, pending sufficient reason and
> support by its consumers.

I'm happy with this.  I'd say a quicker timeframe is fine though.
From the announce, if no one has found an application that uses
LO-embedded ActiveX remove it in a month or something.  I expect that
if there are some users they might not hear until the install the
version without it regardless of what we do.

Kind regards,
Bryan

[1] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/21024/
[2] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2016-January/071789.html
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Template_Library

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Recently it was decided to remove the rest of NPAPI support [1] which
> got me thinking about the other Windows specific plugin tech -
> ActiveX.
>
> It seems ActiveX is very much no longer recommended by Microsoft and
> it seems to not work by default for IE10/11 on Windows 7 and up.  Any
> objections to removing?
>
> AFAICT this would just be removing embedding LO into IE.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bryan
>
> [1] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20658/  and ESC discussion
> here: 
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2015-December/071504.html
> [2] 
> https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/05/06/a-break-from-the-past-part-2-saying-goodbye-to-activex-vbscript-attachevent/
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Michael Stahl]

On 30.12.2015 21:02, Bryan Quigley wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> Recently it was decided to remove the rest of NPAPI support [1] which
> got me thinking about the other Windows specific plugin tech -
> ActiveX.
> 
> It seems ActiveX is very much no longer recommended by Microsoft and
> it seems to not work by default for IE10/11 on Windows 7 and up.  Any
> objections to removing?

i don't think that a LO browser plugin is a terribly good idea, so no
objection to removing that.

> AFAICT this would just be removing embedding LO into IE.

however, isn't it the case that ActiveX components may not be used just
from IE, but from any Win32 application?

that sounds like a potentially more useful embedding use-case, similar
to "officebean" and "LibreOfficeKit", but for developers that are
familiar with Win32 APIs.

(or would that be something else that also happens to be called
"ActiveX" but is not actually implemented by LO's so_activex library?)

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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Chris Sherlock]

Does this mean it’s no longer crashing?

Chris

> On 1 Jan 2016, at 3:31 PM, Chris Sherlock  wrote:
> 
> P.S. given that LO is crashing due to the ActiveX control borking, that bug 
> still needs troubleshooting. 
> 
> Mark, can you provide us with a backtrace when soffice dies, then add it to 
> the TDF bug report?
> 
> Chris
> 
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Chris Sherlock  > wrote:
> Unless I'm much mistaken, the ActiveX control does almost exactly the same 
> thing that the browser plugin did for Netscape. 
> 
> Given that in Edge Microsoft will not be supporting ActiveX plugins any more, 
> isn't the justification for removing the ActiveX control the same as for 
> remove the NSAPI plugin?
> 
> Incidentally, in the bug references, if I had to hazard a guess, the ocx 
> needs to be registered manually. 
> 
> Chris
> 
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Thorsten Behrens  > wrote:
> Mark Hung wrote:
> > A valid use case is to read the uploaded documents on SharePoint server in
> > intranet.
> > Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
> > directly related event.
> >  ( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or security
> > issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .
> >
> Yeah. Unless this is not working anywhere anymore, let's keep it for
> the while - seems it's useful at least in some cases. And the cost of
> maintaining it is currently near zero, no?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- Thorsten
> 
> ___
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> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Tor Lillqvist]

> In a word: mantainence.
>
> ActiveX is a failed idea by Microsoft, and in fact there is always a
> burden in maintaining things that aren't seen as at all useful or even
> desirable.
>
> We removed plugins for a similar reason.
>

I'm all for removing it. The less weird features, the better.

--tml
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Thorsten Behrens]

Mark Hung wrote:
> A valid use case is to read the uploaded documents on SharePoint server in
> intranet.
> Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
> directly related event.
>  ( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or security
> issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .
> 
Yeah. Unless this is not working anywhere anymore, let's keep it for
the while - seems it's useful at least in some cases. And the cost of
maintaining it is currently near zero, no?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Chris Sherlock]

P.S. given that LO is crashing due to the ActiveX control borking, that bug
still needs troubleshooting.

Mark, can you provide us with a backtrace when soffice dies, then add it to
the TDF bug report?

Chris

On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Chris Sherlock 
wrote:

> Unless I'm much mistaken, the ActiveX control does almost exactly the same
> thing that the browser plugin did for Netscape.
>
> Given that in Edge Microsoft will not be supporting ActiveX plugins any
> more, isn't the justification for removing the ActiveX control the same as
> for remove the NSAPI plugin?
>
> Incidentally, in the bug references, if I had to hazard a guess, the ocx
> needs to be registered manually.
>
> Chris
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Thorsten Behrens <
> t...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Mark Hung wrote:
>> > A valid use case is to read the uploaded documents on SharePoint server
>> in
>> > intranet.
>> > Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
>> > directly related event.
>> >  ( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or
>> security
>> > issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .
>> >
>> Yeah. Unless this is not working anywhere anymore, let's keep it for
>> the while - seems it's useful at least in some cases. And the cost of
>> maintaining it is currently near zero, no?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> -- Thorsten
>>
>> ___
>> LibreOffice mailing list
>> LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>>
>>
>
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Mark Hung]

Hi all,

I lost my memory and messed tdf#90386 with another thing.
It didn't seem to work properly since IE8 / LO4.2.2, though I did try to
fix it.



2016-01-01 12:17 GMT+08:00 Chris Sherlock :

> Unless I'm much mistaken, the ActiveX control does almost exactly the same
> thing that the browser plugin did for Netscape.
>
> Given that in Edge Microsoft will not be supporting ActiveX plugins any
> more, isn't the justification for removing the ActiveX control the same as
> for remove the NSAPI plugin?
>
> Incidentally, in the bug references, if I had to hazard a guess, the ocx
> needs to be registered manually.
>
> Chris
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Thorsten Behrens <
> t...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>> Mark Hung wrote:
>> > A valid use case is to read the uploaded documents on SharePoint server
>> in
>> > intranet.
>> > Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
>> > directly related event.
>> >  ( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or
>> security
>> > issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .
>> >
>> Yeah. Unless this is not working anywhere anymore, let's keep it for
>> the while - seems it's useful at least in some cases. And the cost of
>> maintaining it is currently near zero, no?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> -- Thorsten
>>
>> ___
>> LibreOffice mailing list
>> LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>>
>>
>


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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Chris Sherlock]

Unless I'm much mistaken, the ActiveX control does almost exactly the same
thing that the browser plugin did for Netscape.

Given that in Edge Microsoft will not be supporting ActiveX plugins any
more, isn't the justification for removing the ActiveX control the same as
for remove the NSAPI plugin?

Incidentally, in the bug references, if I had to hazard a guess, the ocx
needs to be registered manually.

Chris

On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Thorsten Behrens  wrote:

> Mark Hung wrote:
> > A valid use case is to read the uploaded documents on SharePoint server
> in
> > intranet.
> > Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
> > directly related event.
> >  ( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or
> security
> > issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .
> >
> Yeah. Unless this is not working anywhere anymore, let's keep it for
> the while - seems it's useful at least in some cases. And the cost of
> maintaining it is currently near zero, no?
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Thorsten
>
> ___
> LibreOffice mailing list
> LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Mark Hung]

;-( .. Oh, I provide the wrong information again.

I mean the file didn't open if LibreOffice is installed with both Explorer
Extension and Active X disabled.


2016-01-01 14:53 GMT+08:00 Mark Hung :

> Hi all,
>
> I lost my memory and messed tdf#90386 with another thing.
> It didn't seem to work properly since IE8 / LO4.2.2, though I did try to
> fix it.
>
>
>
> 2016-01-01 12:17 GMT+08:00 Chris Sherlock :
>
>> Unless I'm much mistaken, the ActiveX control does almost exactly the
>> same thing that the browser plugin did for Netscape.
>>
>> Given that in Edge Microsoft will not be supporting ActiveX plugins any
>> more, isn't the justification for removing the ActiveX control the same as
>> for remove the NSAPI plugin?
>>
>> Incidentally, in the bug references, if I had to hazard a guess, the ocx
>> needs to be registered manually.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Thorsten Behrens <
>> t...@documentfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Mark Hung wrote:
>>> > A valid use case is to read the uploaded documents on SharePoint
>>> server in
>>> > intranet.
>>> > Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
>>> > directly related event.
>>> >  ( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or
>>> security
>>> > issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .
>>> >
>>> Yeah. Unless this is not working anywhere anymore, let's keep it for
>>> the while - seems it's useful at least in some cases. And the cost of
>>> maintaining it is currently near zero, no?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> -- Thorsten
>>>
>>> ___
>>> LibreOffice mailing list
>>> LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
>>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mark Hung
>



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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Bryan Quigley]

>I've reported tdf#90386 last year, which was about IE8 didn't render
>embedded LibreOffice properly.
From that bug, does that mean it doesn't really work properly anyway
since LO 4.4/IE8?

>Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
>directly related event.
 >( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or security
issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .

Microsoft recently changed their policy (going into effect Jan 2016),
to obsolete all but the latest IE on said platform.  Which means for
the great majority of (supported) users IE11 is the only supported
version.

[1] https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/microsoft-internet-explorer/en-us

>> On 31 Dec 2015, at 7:02 AM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Recently it was decided to remove the rest of NPAPI support [1] which
>> got me thinking about the other Windows specific plugin tech -
>> ActiveX.
>>
>> It seems ActiveX is very much no longer recommended by Microsoft and
>> it seems to not work by default for IE10/11 on Windows 7 and up.  Any
>> objections to removing?
>>
>> AFAICT this would just be removing embedding LO into IE.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Bryan
>>
>> [1] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20658/  and ESC discussion
>> here: 
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2015-December/071504.html
>> [2] 
>> https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/05/06/a-break-from-the-past-part-2-saying-goodbye-to-activex-vbscript-attachevent/
>> ___
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>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Mark Hung]

tdf#90386 is about IE8 only, IE9 and above do not have the issue. In the
case I reported, IE8 is still used in order to compatible with legacy
systems. It is my point that, why bother to remove it if not harmful or
infeasible?

2015-12-31 10:19 GMT+08:00 Bryan Quigley :

> >I've reported tdf#90386 last year, which was about IE8 didn't render
> >embedded LibreOffice properly.
> From that bug, does that mean it doesn't really work properly anyway
> since LO 4.4/IE8?
>
> >Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
> >directly related event.
>  >( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or security
> issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .
>
> Microsoft recently changed their policy (going into effect Jan 2016),
> to obsolete all but the latest IE on said platform.  Which means for
> the great majority of (supported) users IE11 is the only supported
> version.
>
> [1]
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/microsoft-internet-explorer/en-us
>
> >> On 31 Dec 2015, at 7:02 AM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi there,
> >>
> >> Recently it was decided to remove the rest of NPAPI support [1] which
> >> got me thinking about the other Windows specific plugin tech -
> >> ActiveX.
> >>
> >> It seems ActiveX is very much no longer recommended by Microsoft and
> >> it seems to not work by default for IE10/11 on Windows 7 and up.  Any
> >> objections to removing?
> >>
> >> AFAICT this would just be removing embedding LO into IE.
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Bryan
> >>
> >> [1] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20658/  and ESC discussion
> >> here:
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2015-December/071504.html
> >> [2]
> https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/05/06/a-break-from-the-past-part-2-saying-goodbye-to-activex-vbscript-attachevent/
> >> ___
> >> LibreOffice mailing list
> >> LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
> >> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
> >
> ___
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Mark Hung]

Hi,

I've reported tdf#90386 last year, which was about IE8 didn't render
embedded LibreOffice properly.
A valid use case is to read the uploaded documents on SharePoint server in
intranet.
Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
directly related event.
 ( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or security
issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .


2015-12-31 4:02 GMT+08:00 Bryan Quigley :

> Hi there,
>
> Recently it was decided to remove the rest of NPAPI support [1] which
> got me thinking about the other Windows specific plugin tech -
> ActiveX.
>
> It seems ActiveX is very much no longer recommended by Microsoft and
> it seems to not work by default for IE10/11 on Windows 7 and up.  Any
> objections to removing?
>
> AFAICT this would just be removing embedding LO into IE.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bryan
>
> [1] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20658/  and ESC discussion
> here:
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2015-December/071504.html
> [2]
> https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/05/06/a-break-from-the-past-part-2-saying-goodbye-to-activex-vbscript-attachevent/
> ___
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Chris Sherlock]

I’m all for this. 

Chris

> On 31 Dec 2015, at 7:02 AM, Bryan Quigley  wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> Recently it was decided to remove the rest of NPAPI support [1] which
> got me thinking about the other Windows specific plugin tech -
> ActiveX.
> 
> It seems ActiveX is very much no longer recommended by Microsoft and
> it seems to not work by default for IE10/11 on Windows 7 and up.  Any
> objections to removing?
> 
> AFAICT this would just be removing embedding LO into IE.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Bryan
> 
> [1] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20658/  and ESC discussion
> here: 
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2015-December/071504.html
> [2] 
> https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/05/06/a-break-from-the-past-part-2-saying-goodbye-to-activex-vbscript-attachevent/
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Re: Remove ActiveX from LibreOffice

[Chris Sherlock]

In a word: mantainence.

ActiveX is a failed idea by Microsoft, and in fact there is always a burden
in maintaining things that aren't seen as at all useful or even desirable.

We removed plugins for a similar reason.

Chris

On Thursday, December 31, 2015, Mark Hung  wrote:

> tdf#90386 is about IE8 only, IE9 and above do not have the issue. In the
> case I reported, IE8 is still used in order to compatible with legacy
> systems. It is my point that, why bother to remove it if not harmful or
> infeasible?
>
> 2015-12-31 10:19 GMT+08:00 Bryan Quigley  >:
>
>> >I've reported tdf#90386 last year, which was about IE8 didn't render
>> >embedded LibreOffice properly.
>> From that bug, does that mean it doesn't really work properly anyway
>> since LO 4.4/IE8?
>>
>> >Eventually it obsoletes, but I prefer to consider this when facing some
>> >directly related event.
>>  >( i.e EOL of Windows7, new toolchain ceasing ActiveX support, or
>> security
>> issue which lacks of engineer resource ) .
>>
>> Microsoft recently changed their policy (going into effect Jan 2016),
>> to obsolete all but the latest IE on said platform.  Which means for
>> the great majority of (supported) users IE11 is the only supported
>> version.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/microsoft-internet-explorer/en-us
>>
>> >> On 31 Dec 2015, at 7:02 AM, Bryan Quigley > > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi there,
>> >>
>> >> Recently it was decided to remove the rest of NPAPI support [1] which
>> >> got me thinking about the other Windows specific plugin tech -
>> >> ActiveX.
>> >>
>> >> It seems ActiveX is very much no longer recommended by Microsoft and
>> >> it seems to not work by default for IE10/11 on Windows 7 and up.  Any
>> >> objections to removing?
>> >>
>> >> AFAICT this would just be removing embedding LO into IE.
>> >>
>> >> Kind regards,
>> >> Bryan
>> >>
>> >> [1] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20658/  and ESC discussion
>> >> here:
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2015-December/071504.html
>> >> [2]
>> https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/05/06/a-break-from-the-past-part-2-saying-goodbye-to-activex-vbscript-attachevent/
>> >> ___
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>> 
>> >> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>> >
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>>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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