Re: [Lift] getting started feedback

2010-01-22 Thread jlist9
I second this. In general I find the getting started guide very helpful.
It explains a lot of key concepts step by step. I'd just like to mention a
few things to be considered for future improvements:

1. it's nice to have the default menus in the sample to do project
but it looks like a little magic to me when I read the guide. If would
be great to explain a little bit how the menu works and what are
the options if you don't want the menu there, or ways to customize
an application in the context of how Lift works. This is usually not
a problem for page central frameworks such as Stripes, or page/component
central frameworks such as Wicket.

2. it'd be also very helpful to maybe briefly describe recommended ways
to do lift development with tools such as sbt, JRebel and eclipse, or other
IDEs. The tools and setups could be rather dynamic. I think the web page
is a better place for these things than the book. If not in the getting started
guide,  a separate FAQ or a link to a separate page from the getting started
guide would also do.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 10:37 PM, The Trav the.t...@gmail.com wrote:
 Ok, so I'm trying out the lift framework, went through the guide
 without too much trouble.  Had a few points that threw me a bit.

 The biggest one is probably having a snippet named TD and a model
 named ToDo.
 It seems to me like it's trying to work around namespace collisions
 and/or potential confusion over namespaces, I think it would probably
 be a better idea to address that explicitly.

 What do people generally do for naming snippets?  Is naming them after
 the Model the exception rather than the rule?

 Another thing that got me was that it didn't address adding new pages
 past index.html which strikes me as somewhat incomplete...  After
 reading the getting started guide, I feel I'm going to have to find
 another document or two (or three) before I can do any meaningful work
 with the framework.


 Other than those two suggestions I found it a pretty good
 introduction, the framework is definitely pretty neat, and I like the
 mvn integration for getting started, very handy

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Re: [Lift] An experience report using Scala Lift

2010-01-19 Thread jlist9
I'm new to maven so I just followed the Lift Getting Started
guide, which uses mvn jetty:run to start jetty and ctrl-c to stop it.

I used sbt before for another project that uses a different framework
and like it that it auto-compiles the changed files and restarts jetty
(as far as I remember - it's been a while.) So far I haven't tried JRebel
yet so I'm not sure if it offers more than what sbt does but I'm
interested in finding out.

When doing that project, I pretty much used a simple text editor
to write scala code and I missed the features provided by eclipse
or netbeans. So I'm hoping that there is a way to use sbt and
eclipse or netbeans (I think the netbeans scala plug-in works better
than the eclipse's plugin but I'm OK with usine eclipse since that's
my default Java environment), and maybe add JRebel to the picture
if it does something that sbt doesn't offer.

I understand that the dev environment is a personal choice but I
think it would be nice to have a recommended set up that makes
use of neat tools like sbt and the free JRebel library. It would be
helpful for people who are new to Lift or Scala in general.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Naftoli Gugenheim
naftoli...@gmail.com wrote:
 How do you launch jetty? If it's an eclipse maven launch, specify JRebel in 
 the JVM arguments. For command-line maven, specify it in the MAVEN_OPTS 
 environment variable.
 If you launch via sbt (assuming there's such a thing) then you have to check 
 the sbt docs.
 Ultimately the command line that launches java.exe (or equivalent) to run 
 jetty should have -noverify -javaagent:path/to/jrebel.jar in it.
 If the question was about sbt with eclipse, there's a plugin that provides 
 sbt dependencies as classpath container.
 It is indeed very convenient to use JRebel. Most changes are viewable 
 immediately (though at times reloading classes is slow). Exceptions are 
 significant changes to a class like implementing a new interface (and due to 
 scala's abundance of syntactic sugar these are more often than you'd thin), 
 and changes to things set in Boot, since it's only run once. That doesn't 
 include functions etc. defined in Boot--if you pass a PartialFunction to a 
 LiftRules configuration, changes to its body will be reflected immediately.

 -
 jlist9jli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks.

 The Eclipse incremental compiler, Jetty  the JRebel plugin makes for
 fairly rapid turnaround times.

 This is interesting. I wonder if there are instructions somewhere online
 about how to use Eclipse + sbt + JRebel for Lift development. The Lift
 Get Started Guide mentions a lot of start and stop Jetty. The impression
 I got from reading it is that's how Lift development is done. I'm sure
 there is a better way :-)

 On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Jeppe Nejsum Madsen je...@ingolfs.dk 
 wrote:
 Hi,

 A while ago, I started writing an experience report on using Scala 
 Lift. I finally finished this (it has been a little more than 6 months
 now, time is flying :-)

 http://jeppenejsum.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/scala-and-lift-status-after-six-months/

 /Jeppe

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Re: [Lift] An experience report using Scala Lift

2010-01-18 Thread jlist9
Thanks.

The Eclipse incremental compiler, Jetty  the JRebel plugin makes for
fairly rapid turnaround times.

This is interesting. I wonder if there are instructions somewhere online
about how to use Eclipse + sbt + JRebel for Lift development. The Lift
Get Started Guide mentions a lot of start and stop Jetty. The impression
I got from reading it is that's how Lift development is done. I'm sure
there is a better way :-)

On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Jeppe Nejsum Madsen je...@ingolfs.dk wrote:
 Hi,

 A while ago, I started writing an experience report on using Scala 
 Lift. I finally finished this (it has been a little more than 6 months
 now, time is flying :-)

 http://jeppenejsum.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/scala-and-lift-status-after-six-months/

 /Jeppe

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[Lift] CMS or wiki built with Lift?

2009-12-20 Thread jlist9
Hi, I haven't found anything when I searched but I'd like to double check here -
is there an open source CMS (content management system) or wiki system
built with Lift? I need to update a simple site and I'm hoping that I can learn
Lift by examples.

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Re: [Lift] Re: CMS or wiki built with Lift?

2009-12-20 Thread jlist9
Thanks! No checkins for hoisted yet. I'll check out Democritus.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:
 Well, as far as CMS Glenn is working on one here 
 http://github.com/glennSilverman/democritus
 and David is starting one here http://github.com/dpp/hoisted


 On Dec 21, 7:24 am, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi, I haven't found anything when I searched but I'd like to double check 
 here -
 is there an open source CMS (content management system) or wiki system
 built with Lift? I need to update a simple site and I'm hoping that I can 
 learn
 Lift by examples.

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Re: [Lift] Getting Started 'todo' fails - smack.jar

2009-12-04 Thread jlist9
I'm just curious why is smack required. Does Lift use XMPP? Or is it there
in case someone uses XMPP in an application?

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 7:23 AM, David Biesack david.bies...@sas.com wrote:
 While helloworld works (mvn jetty:run) from
 http://liftweb.net/docs/getting_started/mod_master.html,
 after installing the 'todo' app and try to build/run it

  cd todo
  mvn jetty:run

 I get an error trying to resolve smack.jar

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Re: [Lift] Getting Started 'todo' fails - smack.jar

2009-12-04 Thread jlist9
I see. Thanks David. It's good to know that lift has interfaces for all
those interesting libraries, although it sort of makes lift-core sound
more like lift-libs :)

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:13 AM, David Pollak
feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 10:06 AM, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm just curious why is smack required. Does Lift use XMPP? Or is it there
 in case someone uses XMPP in an application?

 The 1.0 archetype references lift-core.  lift-core is the umbrella for all
 the Lift modules including XMPP, AMQP, Facebook, PayPal as well as WebKit,
 Mapper, etc.
 It was my vision that Lift should contain all the pieces to connect your
 application to many forms of real time data, events, external services, etc.
 The vision narrowed post 1.0 release.
 If you remove the lift-core reference in the pom.xml and insert references
 to lift-webkit, lift-util, and lift-mapper you app will run fine and not try
 to download XMPP or AMQP support.


 On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 7:23 AM, David Biesack david.bies...@sas.com
 wrote:
  While helloworld works (mvn jetty:run) from
  http://liftweb.net/docs/getting_started/mod_master.html,
  after installing the 'todo' app and try to build/run it
 
   cd todo
   mvn jetty:run
 
  I get an error trying to resolve smack.jar

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Re: [Lift] derby

2009-11-27 Thread jlist9
I see. Thanks Derek.

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Derek Chen-Becker
dchenbec...@gmail.com wrote:
 Derby has inferior support for binary data types (32k limit) and has a
 couple of other issues that I can't remember off the top of my head.

 On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 1:54 PM, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi David,

 Would you care to elaborate in what way Derby is inferior?
 I understand H2 is probably faster as speed is one of its main
 design goals. Does Derby have any other issues?

 Are there any potential issues with using H2 for production?

 Thanks,
 Jack

  Derby is inferior in every way to H2 (another open source pure Java
  relational database).  If you're building something for production,
  Postgresql is your best choice.  If you need a simple database that
  needs no
  separate process and just works H2 is your best choice.

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Re: [Lift] derby

2009-11-27 Thread jlist9
That's good to know. Thanks!

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:50 AM, David Pollak
feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com wrote:

 I needed to do a lot more work arounds for Derby in Mapper/Schemifier...
 H2 was more true to the SQL spec.

 I have had a few instances of Derby databases getting corrupt during unclean
 shutdowns... that's never happened with H2.

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[Lift] Re: Impossible to use Mapper on GAE?

2009-11-27 Thread jlist9
Still seeking an answer. I notice that the lift GAE example has a database
demo. Does it use Mapper and read from/write to bigtable?
http://lift-example.appspot.com/database

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi, I read from the list that Mapper is not supported on Google App Engine
 (I see people use JPA instead.) I wonder if this is a matter of non-existent
 drivers, or there are some fundamental issues that make it impossible?

 Thanks,
 Jack

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Re: [Lift] Re: Impossible to use Mapper on GAE?

2009-11-27 Thread jlist9
Oh. I thought bigtable is the only datastore available on GAE?

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Timothy Perrett
timo...@getintheloop.eu wrote:
 I cant think of a reason why mapper would not work on GAE?

 Mapper does not work with bigtable. You could write a record
 implementation if you really wanted to use bigtable.

 Cheers, Tim

 On Nov 27, 7:52 pm, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Still seeking an answer. I notice that the lift GAE example has a database
 demo. Does it use Mapper and read from/write to 
 bigtable?http://lift-example.appspot.com/database



 On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi, I read from the list that Mapper is not supported on Google App Engine
  (I see people use JPA instead.) I wonder if this is a matter of 
  non-existent
  drivers, or there are some fundamental issues that make it impossible?

  Thanks,
  Jack

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Re: [Lift] Re: Impossible to use Mapper on GAE?

2009-11-27 Thread jlist9
Hmmm. I wonder how the database demo in the lift GAE demo was implemented...
is the source available somewhere?

http://lift-example.appspot.com/database

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Timothy Perrett
timo...@getintheloop.eu wrote:
 I'm not sure about that, but I know for sure that mapper does not work
 with big table ;-)

 Cheers, Tim

 Sent from my iPhone

 On 28 Nov 2009, at 00:43, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oh. I thought bigtable is the only datastore available on GAE?

 On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Timothy Perrett
 timo...@getintheloop.eu wrote:
 I cant think of a reason why mapper would not work on GAE?

 Mapper does not work with bigtable. You could write a record
 implementation if you really wanted to use bigtable.

 Cheers, Tim

 On Nov 27, 7:52 pm, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Still seeking an answer. I notice that the lift GAE example has a
 database
 demo. Does it use Mapper and read from/write to 
 bigtable?http://lift-example.appspot.com/database



 On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi, I read from the list that Mapper is not supported on Google
 App Engine
 (I see people use JPA instead.) I wonder if this is a matter of
 non-existent
 drivers, or there are some fundamental issues that make it
 impossible?

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Re: [Lift] Re: Impossible to use Mapper on GAE?

2009-11-27 Thread jlist9
I see. Thanks. That explains it.

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Atsuhiko Yamanaka
atsuhiko.yaman...@gmail.com

 Hmmm. I wonder how the database demo in the lift GAE demo was implemented...
 is the source available somewhere?
 http://lift-example.appspot.com/database

 It is running with H2 in-memory mode.

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[Lift] Impossible to use Mapper on GAE?

2009-11-26 Thread jlist9
Hi, I read from the list that Mapper is not supported on Google App Engine
(I see people use JPA instead.) I wonder if this is a matter of non-existent
drivers, or there are some fundamental issues that make it impossible?

Thanks,
Jack

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Re: [Lift] derby

2009-11-26 Thread jlist9
Hi David,

Would you care to elaborate in what way Derby is inferior?
I understand H2 is probably faster as speed is one of its main
design goals. Does Derby have any other issues?

Are there any potential issues with using H2 for production?

Thanks,
Jack

 Derby is inferior in every way to H2 (another open source pure Java
 relational database).  If you're building something for production,
 Postgresql is your best choice.  If you need a simple database that needs no
 separate process and just works H2 is your best choice.

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Re: [Lift] Re: Can we deploy lift webapp on Google App Engine?

2009-11-23 Thread jlist9
Hi,

Is this the easiest/simplest instructions/setup to deploy a Lift app on GAE?
It seems to involve datanucleus-enhancer, which I know nothing about.
I'm not sure what other dependency it has. Is it required?

Thanks
Jack

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:

 Try http://github.com/ymnk/lift-gae-jdo for a example, personally I
 don't care for the limited approach GEA gives you, but that's me

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[Lift] H2 Database?

2009-11-21 Thread jlist9
Hi all,

I'm planning for a simple project that involves a small web site and database.
I plan to use Lift for the web part so that I can learn it. For
database, I'm interested
in H2 database for its speed and flexibility. I've seen H2 database mentioned
a few times on the list. I wonder if those who have used it can tell
me if it's a
good idea to start a lift project with H2 database, and if there are anything
to pay attention to when used with Lift? Do you use it in a standalone mode
or embedded mode?

Thanks.

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Re: [Lift] Re: H2 Database?

2009-11-21 Thread jlist9
OK that's good to know. Thanks! I'll give that a try.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 5:45 PM, philip philip14...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi, I am using H2 database without any problems so far. Just change
 the connection, use the right maven build or jars.

    val driverName: String = Props.get(db.driver) openOr
      org.h2.Driver

    val dbUrl: String = Props.get(db.url) openOr
    jdbc:h2:tcp://localhost/~/databasename



 On 11月22日, 上午9時30分, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 I'm planning for a simple project that involves a small web site and 
 database.
 I plan to use Lift for the web part so that I can learn it. For
 database, I'm interested
 in H2 database for its speed and flexibility. I've seen H2 database mentioned
 a few times on the list. I wonder if those who have used it can tell
 me if it's a
 good idea to start a lift project with H2 database, and if there are anything
 to pay attention to when used with Lift? Do you use it in a standalone mode
 or embedded mode?

 Thanks.

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[Lift] Re: Milestone 7 released

2009-11-05 Thread jlist9

Congrats on the new release!

Just curious - what are the differences between Lift Actor and Akka Actor when
used locally?

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Charles F. Munat c...@munat.com wrote:

 The Lift Web Framework team is pleased to announce the lift-1.1-M7 release!

 Lift is an expressive and elegant framework for writing web
 applications. Lift stresses the importance of security, maintainability,
 scalability and performance while allowing for high levels of developer
 productivity. Lift is a Scala web framework.

 Changes in this version include:

 New features:
 o Enhanced the documentation for an type signatures for Actors
 o Revised Lift to use LiftActors and be compatible with Akka Actors
 o DB.runQuery isn't ConnectionIdentifier-aware  Issue: 125.
 o JSON diff and merge
 o Add parameterized ?? to S  Issue: 82.

 Fixed Bugs:
 o Textile parser outputs non-valid output. Changed some null to Null.
 Issue: 94. Thanks to vdichev.
 o S.deleteCookie broken in M6  Issue: 126.
 o Misspelling in field name in ProtoExtendedSession  Issue: 119.
 o net.liftweb.widgets.autocomplete in version 1.1-M6
         changed return type from NodeSeq to Elem  Issue: 120.
 o StatefulSnippets generate invalid markup  Issue: 122.
 o Stacked URL Rewriting correctly deals with params  Issue: 143.
 o Simplified Factory signatures in LiftRules  Issue: 141.
 o Use paranamer to find out case class constructor argument names
 o Enhance CRUDify i18n  Issue: 84.
 o Inaccurate ranges for previous and next (page) in CRUDify  Issue: 87.
 o No i18n for Sign Up in MetaMegaProtoUser.signupXhtm  Issue: 81.
 o Lost password submit button is not rendered correctly  Issue: 111.
 o Signup mail body not i18ned  Issue: 113.
 o Misspelled Key pasword.changed in ProtoUser.scala  Issue: 114.
 o Enhance Msgs snippet to optionally show all messages  Issue: 123.
 o MappedPassword contains misspelled key for unset password  Issue: 157.

 Changes:
 o Improve error message if database is not supported  Issue: 57.
 o Change net.liftweb.mapper.ByList to take a Seq[T] instead of a List[T]
  Issue: 77.
 o Boxed payment status so that IPN cancelations appear as
         Empty. Breaking API change for implementors.  Issue: 88.
 o Updated Lift to use Scala 2.7.7  Issue: 142.
 o Restructured Lift codebase (now categorized into lift-base,
 lift-persistence, lift-modules, lift-archetypes and lift-examples).
 Issue: 127.
 o Project build models are more enriched and streamlined.  Issue: 128.
 o Generalized JSON serialization


 Have fun!
 -Lift Web Framework team


 


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[Lift] Is there a built-with-lift list?

2009-10-24 Thread jlist9

Hi all,

I'd like to check out some sites/libraries built with Lift, open source
or commercial. I wonder if there is a list somewhere?

Thanks

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[Lift] Re: How can i store GBK charactor into the DB ?

2009-10-24 Thread jlist9

It sounds like you aren't converting GBK encoding to UTF-8
before you store the text?

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Neil.Lv anim...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,

   I have a silly question about the Character Encoding in lift.

   My table is charset is utf8 in database.

   ###
   CREATE TABLE `users` ( .
   ) ENGINE=InnoDB  DEFAULT CHARSET=utf8;
   ###

   And in my boot.scala file:
   ### the default code
     LiftRules.early.append(makeUtf8)
    private def makeUtf8(req: HTTPRequest) {
      req.setCharacterEncoding(UTF-8)
    }
   ###

   Now i want to store chinese character into my database, and it's
 not a chinese char,

   it's garbled and doesn't show correctly in the database and page.

   How can i store the chinese char into my database ?

   Thanks for any suggestion !

 Cheers,
  Neil

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[Lift] Re: How can i store GBK charactor into the DB ?

2009-10-24 Thread jlist9

I'm not familiar with how Lift handles strings but if the encoding conversion
is what's missing, check out the Java String class, look for work encoding
or charset in java doc. Basically you can create a String with a specified
encoding and use getBytes() to convert it to a different encoding.

You can also try setting charset in your page to UTF-8. Maybe this is
the default in Lift.

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Neil.Lv anim...@gmail.com wrote:

  I just use the User's edit method that the ProtoUser ?

  What's method that i can do for conventing GBK to UTF-8 before
 saving ?

 Cheers,
  Neil

 On Oct 25, 1:34 am, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
 It sounds like you aren't converting GBK encoding to UTF-8
 before you store the text?

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[Lift] Re: How can i store GBK charactor into the DB ?

2009-10-24 Thread jlist9

I've had problems with system/JVM default locale before.
When no encoding/charset is specified in new String(bytes[] data)
or String getBytes(), it uses the default locale. When the default
locale is not UTF-8, there will be a problem. I'm not sure where
the problem is, though.

You can capture the HTTP traffic and see what encoding it
uses to determine in what link in the request-response-storage
chain the encoding got wrong.

BTW, Just saw David's reply. Looks like he's found the problem.

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Neil.Lv anim...@gmail.com wrote:

 In my page the Charset is UTF-8, and thisi is my platform information.

 Apache Maven 2.2.1 (r801777; 2009-08-07 03:16:01+0800)
 Java version: 1.6.0_05
 Java home: C:\Java\jdk1.6.0_05\jre
 Default locale: zh_CN, platform encoding: GBK
 OS name: windows xp version: 5.1 arch: x86 Family: windows

 The lift doesn't store the character using the encoding UTF-8
 automaticly ?

 Cheers,
  Neil

 On Oct 25, 1:51 am, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm not familiar with how Lift handles strings but if the encoding conversion
 is what's missing, check out the Java String class, look for work encoding
 or charset in java doc. Basically you can create a String with a specified
 encoding and use getBytes() to convert it to a different encoding.

 You can also try setting charset in your page to UTF-8. Maybe this is
 the default in Lift.

 On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Neil.Lv anim...@gmail.com wrote:

   I just use the User's edit method that the ProtoUser ?

   What's method that i can do for conventing GBK to UTF-8 before
  saving ?

  Cheers,
   Neil

  On Oct 25, 1:34 am, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:
  It sounds like you aren't converting GBK encoding to UTF-8
  before you store the text?

 


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[Lift] Re: Proposal : Lift ticketing system

2009-10-24 Thread jlist9

CMS, wiki, blog, forum also sound more interesting than bug tracking
system to me :-)

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 11:13 AM, aw anth...@whitford.com wrote:

 I don't mean to be negative, but are other options being considered
 besides a ticketing system?  I kind of wonder if the effort is worth
 it when excellent alternatives exist (like JIRA -- their Git
 integration may interest you:  
 https://plugins.atlassian.com/plugin/details/4984
 -- I have used their Subversion integration and was very pleased).

 I would be far more interested in seeing something done for the
 benefit of the Lift Web Site.  (Is it written with Lift?)  I don't see
 a Lift CMS -- and that is something that could evolve well over time.
 I think it is important for a web framework to use their own stuff,
 and it should be indicative of the cool things that it can do,
 stability, scale, and performance...  (I am amazed that I have seen
 rather poor demonstrations of this, specifically by Adobe and JBoss --
 but again, I'm not trying to be negative...)

 I see the Lift site integrating Google Analytics...  Is that something
 that could be out of the box with Lift?  That could be a selling
 point to people making external web sites.

 Another area that would be neat to develop is instrumentation.  Sort
 of the JMX-Console equivalent for Lift.  For scalability and sizing
 analysis, this would be really useful.


 Having said that, one major feature that I feel is missing from github
 is the lack of attachments for an issue.  How do you attach test cases
 or patches for an issue?

 


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[Lift] Re: Is there a built-with-lift list?

2009-10-24 Thread jlist9

Oh I think it'll be very helpful to have one, from the perspective of someone
new to Lift. People would want to see the capability of a framework before
they adopt it. The demo is very nice but real sites are more convincing.

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:47 AM, David Pollak
feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd like to check out some sites/libraries built with Lift, open source
 or commercial. I wonder if there is a list somewhere?

 Not yet.

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[Lift] Re: Is there a built-with-lift list?

2009-10-24 Thread jlist9

Cool sites! Thanks. I hope someday the list will show up on leftweb.net :)

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 4:15 PM, David Pollak
feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com wrote:
 A quick list of public sites (there are a fair number behind the firewall at
 places like SAP and Seimens):

 http://foursquare.com
 http://nofouls.com/
 http://innovationgames.ocm
 http://udorse.com/

 On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 11:24 AM, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oh I think it'll be very helpful to have one, from the perspective of
 someone
 new to Lift. People would want to see the capability of a framework before
 they adopt it. The demo is very nice but real sites are more convincing.

 On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:47 AM, David Pollak
 feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'd like to check out some sites/libraries built with Lift, open source
  or commercial. I wonder if there is a list somewhere?
 
  Not yet.





 --
 Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
 Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
 Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
 Surf the harmonics

 


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[Lift] Re: A Critique On Lift

2009-10-23 Thread jlist9

Ross,

 Personally I think that Python is great for small simple things, but
 as soon as you start to scale the lack of statically checked
 guarantees starts to bite you.

What you said about the problems with dynamically typed
scripting language is very true. Python is so powerful but the
code is so fragile. You need to write a lot of tests. This is
exactly why I'm trying to learn Scala.

Thanks for your explanation about operators.

 Regarding () and {} BTW, you can replace a single-argument argument
 list with {}, e.g.

 def myFunction(a: String): Unit = println(a)

 myFunction(foobar)
 myFunction { foobar }

I find the following three lines of code do the same thing.
Thanks for your explanation again. I now understand
why the first and second line are equivalent. (But why
does Scala allow {} here? Isn't () good enough?)

I'm not sure what the {} does in the third line, though.

args.foreach{ arg = greeting += (arg +  ) }
args.foreach( arg = greeting += (arg +  ) )
args.foreach( arg = { greeting += (arg +  ) } )

 The two calls are equivalent. It makes more sense with the latter
 format with multiple argument lists or DSL-like things. I could write
 up an example if you're interested, but it might be somewhat involved
 if you're not familiar with Scala or Lift.

Thanks. Let me finish the tutorials first :-)

 Overall, my suggestion would be to stick with it and ask questions. I
 think it's worth it, and the people here are really helpful.

Yes. I plan to bite the bullet and continue with my learning.
And indeed, this is a very friendly and  helpful list.

jlist9

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[Lift] Re: A Critique On Lift

2009-10-23 Thread jlist9

It's often hard to describe some (I'd say most) of the Scala syntax
if you want to search for an answer online.

It would be great if the eclipse plugin can tell you what the code is
trying to do and what kind of syntax is that, for example, linking
an operator back to a method name.

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 6:27 AM, bob rbpas...@gmail.com wrote:

 i believe that one of the best ways to learn a new programming
 language is to read software written in it

 when reading Scala code, I rarely say i don't understand how that
 works and when I do, there's usually a good explanation of it
 somewhere on the web.

 usually I find myself asking where is that defined? or what part of
 the language is that?

 Scala is not like, for example, BASIC, where you can look up FOR, IF/
 THEN/ELSE. there's lots of individual and compound punctuation marks
 that are very difficult to search for online and in PDFs (try
 searching for !).

 a lot of scala also relies on syntactic sugar, such as omitted types
 (no : T after a val/var/def); the dreaded underbar; operator
 overloading; and implicit conversions. you can hate on Java's
 verbosity (i know i have), but brevity has its own difficulties.

 On Oct 22, 11:44 pm, Naftoli Gugenheim naftoli...@gmail.com wrote:
 The last use of _, as in empty_?, is not a special scala meaning. As on 
 Java, underscores can be part of an identifier. Scala takes advantage of 
 this to combine letters and symbols in one name. These names, like empty_?, 
 are a Lift convention, as well as ..._! for use-with-care methods. The scala 
 library uses isEmpty. David, is it your original convention?.

 -

 tirotim.romb...@googlemail.com wrote:
  override def validations = validPriority _ :: super.validations

 funny, I had stumbled on exactly the same line of code when beginning.
 Took me more than a day to understand what's going on. Especially
 because when you copied code from the PDF version of the Liftbook/Lift
 getting started guide, it would mess up spaces, so I would keep
 loooking for a _:: operator.
 The Scala guys have really pushed it a bit hard on the use of the
 underscore. At least four different uses:
 - it for defining anonymous functions like above
 - default value
 - matching placeholder whose value is ignored
 - use for constructing setter method names boolean functions (empty_?)
 


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[Lift] Re: A Critique On Lift

2009-10-22 Thread jlist9

Yes. Typically one will only see a couple of Java-y Scala samples in
the tutorials to show that you can write Scala the Java way
to encourage Java developers to pick up Scala. However, in any
real world applications and libraries you'll only see Scala-y Scala
and that's where the disconnect is.

I thought I could start reading some Scala code after reading a few
tutorials and chapters in a Scala book but that wasn't the case. :-)

However, I'm starting to see the power of Scala, while my head hurts
trying to fit itself to functional thinking and the rich and confusing syntax
(to a beginner at least.)

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Viktor Klang viktor.kl...@gmail.com wrote:
 But the problem there is that sample Scala code is never Java-y Scala, so
 beginners get confused from not having learned about first-class functions
 and their syntax.
 (from my 2 years of Scala, what I've seen the pitfalls being)

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[Lift] Re: A Critique On Lift

2009-10-22 Thread jlist9

Hi David,

Appreciate your reply. It's definitely helpful in clearing some of my thoughts,
as well as in my process of learning Scala down the road. I also think your
book is very well paced and organization of the content is well thought out.
Great job!

I'd like to explain a little bit where my frustration is coming from
(and I don't
want to waste people's time reading further for those who aren't interested.)

I come from Java and Python background. When learning these two languages
I didn't have a problem with the syntax. I think Java's syntax is well defined
although verbose, and Python's is clear and concise. There is a small number
of operators and data types and it's pretty clear which is for what purpose.
Zen of Python says it well:

There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.

and I think this reflects well in the language design of Python.

It's also generally discouraged to use too much black magic when coding
in Python so that the code is easier to understand and maintain, although
Python, being a powerful dynamic language, is very capable of black magics.

These two things helped a lot in my learning of Python. It's a much smaller
set of syntax to learn and it can be learned in a very short time, maybe through
one or two online tutorials. The rest of it is just libraries, which
are very rich
in functionality, but the source code is easy to understand, because of the
small set of clearly defined elements in the language - syntax and
data types, etc..

However, I don't feel the same about Scala. In Scala, I often see multiple ways
of doing the same thing, or very similar things, and this is confusing.

For example, there are multiple ways of running a program. You can have a
script, or an application. To run an application, you can write an object and
implement the main method, or you can extend Application class and write
the code right in the body of the class. It took me a while to figure out how
it works. What's wrong with having only one of them? Python only start as a
script and Java only need a main method but either way works.

Another example is that in some scenarios ( ) and { } are
interchangable in Scala
code, although I haven't figured out in what occasions they are, and
in what occasions
they are not. This puzzles me more because ( ) and { } are the basic elements
in a language and the language allows such flexible usage of them. Although I
think there should be a good reason for this but it still struck me as odd.

In contrast to Python's short list of operators, because operators are
actually functions
in Scala, it's easy for Scala to have a new operator, or have
functions that works
like operators. This is a powerful feature and it is good news for
people who want to
create DSLs. However I think a plethora of operators make code much harder to
read before people can make it a habit to convert operators as
functions in their mind.

To summarize, the more I learn Scala the more I realize how powerful
it is. Meanwhile,
I think Scala imposes this mind tweaking that people have to go
through in learning
this language, the difficulty that I didn't feel when I learned
Python, or Java, C or C++.
I like many of the features provided by Scala but I hope some of the
things can be
simplified/demystified to make it easier to pick up and use.

jlist9

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 9:04 AM, David Pollak
feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've drafted a couple of different versions of a response to this message
 and they all seem somewhat mean and/or condescending... that is not at all
 my intent... here's another draft and please read it as acknowledging the
 challenges you are articulating, but suggesting a different perspective on
 the issue.
 Lisp/Scheme/Clojure is syntactically the simplest language around.  Yet,
 when I look at Clojure code, it to a great degree seems complex to me, even
 though I know it's not.  I believe this is because the patterns are
 different than those I've rehearsed through my journey of asm, Basic, C,
 ObjC, C++, Java, Ruby, and Scala.  Rehearsing a different paradigm is part
 of making that paradigm part of you.
 When I studied French in grade school and high school, I was flummoxed and
 quite angered by gendered nouns.  As a native English speaker, a table is an
 it, not a she (or he.)  But fluent French speakers make gendered nouns a
 normal part of the language, and once skilled can use these subtleties with
 great skill.
 My 2 year learning curve for Scala can be summed up in the first 4 (or maybe
 5) chapters of Beginning Scala.  I sought to present my painful learning
 curve in  150 pages that could be reasonably consumed by a Java or Ruby or
 Python coder in a week or two.  Yeah, it still takes a fair amount of
 practice, rehearsal, to be proficient, but if someone had led me down the
 path that I led my readers down, I think my pain-curve would have been 3-4
 months, not two years.
 Put a different way, the Programming in Scala

[Lift] Re: A Critique On Lift

2009-10-22 Thread jlist9

 Perl's motto is There is more then one way to do it.

I remember reading somewhere that part of the the design goal
of Perl 6 was to make the language more sane. That says
it all. For scripting language, I'd stick to Python, whose syntax
feels natural to me, and to stay sane as much as I can. :-)

 Each brings it's own strengths and weaknesses to the table.

True. But the same could be said if you had 10 ways to start a program.
You have to balance the downside and the benefit. I personally think
The confusion of 2 or 3 ways already out-weights the benefit in this
particular case :-)

 And Java only needs a main isn't true in web development there is no
 main.  There is no main if you write an eclipse plugin, and there is no main
 if you use a Swing based framework.  (note if it's just swing, you do.)

In those cases you are not starting a program/process. You are
only loading a library - your code being the library, the framework being
the entry point of the process.

 Wish I could articulate this better.  Using the for comprehension as an
 example... it's the way it gets compiled into code.  There is no for loop in
 Scala.  A for comprehension gets boiled down to method calls.  The curly
 braces get converted into an anonymous function.
 See
 http://creativekarma.com/ee.php/weblog/comments/the_scala_for_comprehension_from_a_java_perspective/

Thanks for the explanation. I'll try to understand it.

 And too few operators leads to a whole lot of words, which leads to a whole
 lot of typing, or a whole lot of ctrl-space completions.  It's a toss up.
 The wordy way is definitely noob friendly, while the operator way is more
 expert friendly.

If you are talking about Java, that's true. Python is very concise, though.
People say if you are not able to do the same thing in 1/10 LoC in Python
as in Java, you are not coding Python right. I think it's exaggerating a little
bit but it's close. This is probably partially due to the dynamic nature of
Python..

 Or, if I may wax metaphorical (and deep into my own opinion)once more... who
 do you think is the better driver, a NASCAR driver or a Prius driver?  Which
 is more expensive to learn to do?   Which is more fun? :)

I guess it depends on the goal of driving. NASCAR  is definitely more fun
but If the goal is to go from point A to B in time, safely and in a environment
friendly way, maybe the Prius driver :-) And I think these are Java developers
that Scala is also trying to appeal to.

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[Lift] Re: A Critique On Lift

2009-10-21 Thread jlist9

override def validations = validPriority _ :: super.validations

This is a more of a comment about Scala than one about Lift - this does
look cryptic to me. And this is just one of the simpler syntax that confuses
people, who are new to the language. And I'm one of them.

I understand that you don't have to learn all the tricks/syntax to start
coding in Scala but you do have to understand it when you read
source code of libraries written by someone with much more advanced
language skills.

In David's book he says After more than two years of coding Scala, ...
My brain has finally stopped hurting. This sounds like a very high
barrier to entry.

I'm just wondering why Scala has to be so complicated. I'm sure a lot
of things in Scala have their reasons but at the mean time I also
suspect that many of the odd things are there to reduce
typing, which is advertised as one of the advantages of this language -
conciseness. (I could be very wrong due to my lack of understanding.)
If the latter is true, I feel that I'd rather type a little more to make the
code easier to read.

Just feeling a little frustrated learning Scala. I think it's much
easier learning
Java. Not much surprise. Not sure if anyone shares my experience
(and opinion, if there is one.)

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:

 http://localhost3000.de/2009/10/a-quick-glance-at-lift/

 The site above is a blog post from a Rails developer, he had some good
 and bad things to say about Lift and since I do not know enough to
 debate with him I thought I'd post it here.

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[Lift] Re: Question about the Getting Started Guide

2009-09-30 Thread jlist9

Hello Indrajit and those who replied, thanks for all your help.
Finally I got it working. It probably had something to do with
the proxy in my work environment.

BTW, do you know where maven stores those downloaded files?

Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 10:49:20 PM, you wrote:


 Jack,

 maven-jetty-plugin belongs to the group org.mortbay.jetty, not 
 org.apache.maven.plugins. This makes me suspect that your jetty plugin
 isn't configured properly.

 A minimal jetty plugin configuration would look like this:

plugin
  groupIdorg.mortbay.jetty/groupId
  artifactIdmaven-jetty-plugin/artifactId
  configuration
contextPath//contextPath
  /configuration
/plugin

 Could you please ensure this config under build - plugin section in
 your pom.xml and retry?

 Cheers, Indrajit



 On 30/09/09 10:09 AM, jlist9 wrote:

 I just tried it on another computer and got exactly the same error when
 running (below). I think something is broken. I checked the mvn output
 in the first run to create helloworld project and didn't see any mentioning
 of jetty...

 D:\Java\liftweb\workmvn jetty:run
 [INFO] Scanning for projects...
 [INFO] Searching repository for plugin with prefix: 'jetty'.
 [INFO] artifact org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-jetty-plugin: checking
 for updates from central
 [INFO]
 
 [ERROR] BUILD ERROR
 [INFO]
 
 [INFO] The plugin 'org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-jetty-plugin' does
 not exist or no valid version c
 ould be found
 [INFO]
 
 [INFO] For more information, run Maven with the -e switch
 [INFO]
 
 [INFO] Total time:  1 second
 [INFO] Finished at: Tue Sep 29 21:16:31 PDT 2009
 [INFO] Final Memory: 1M/4M
 [INFO]
 

 On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Naftoli
 Gugenheimnaftoli...@gmail.com  wrote:

 I had such an issue when it was confused about which version
 of Jetty. Is there any more detail? Try running with error details
 enabled (mvn -help should tell you how).

 -
 jlist9jli...@gmail.com  wrote:


 Yes, I have a network connection. Maven downloaded some other
 components and the end result was BUILD SUCCESSFUL...

 On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Naftoli
 Gugenheimnaftoli...@gmail.com  wrote:

 Do you have a network connection? The idea of maven is that it
 downloads whatever it's missing.

 On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:11 PM, jlist9jli...@gmail.com  wrote:

 Hi,

 I'm new to Lift. I'm trying to follow the getting started guide to
 build the first simple
 demo.helloworld project. At the end of Maven command output I see
 BUILD SUCCESSFUL.
 However, when I run mvn jetty:run, I get error:

 The plugin 'org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-jetty-plugin' does not
 exist or no valid version could be found

 I wonder if I need to manually install jetty? If so, is there any
 configuration instructions?

 Thanks
 Jack



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[Lift] Question about the Getting Started Guide

2009-09-29 Thread jlist9

Hi,

I'm new to Lift. I'm trying to follow the getting started guide to
build the first simple
demo.helloworld project. At the end of Maven command output I see
BUILD SUCCESSFUL.
However, when I run mvn jetty:run, I get error:

The plugin 'org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-jetty-plugin' does not
exist or no valid version could be found

I wonder if I need to manually install jetty? If so, is there any
configuration instructions?

Thanks
Jack

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[Lift] Re: Question about the Getting Started Guide

2009-09-29 Thread jlist9

Yes, I have a network connection. Maven downloaded some other
components and the end result was BUILD SUCCESSFUL...

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Naftoli Gugenheim naftoli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Do you have a network connection? The idea of maven is that it
 downloads whatever it's missing.

 On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:11 PM, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I'm new to Lift. I'm trying to follow the getting started guide to
 build the first simple
 demo.helloworld project. At the end of Maven command output I see
 BUILD SUCCESSFUL.
 However, when I run mvn jetty:run, I get error:

 The plugin 'org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-jetty-plugin' does not
 exist or no valid version could be found

 I wonder if I need to manually install jetty? If so, is there any
 configuration instructions?

 Thanks
 Jack

 


 


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[Lift] Re: Question about the Getting Started Guide

2009-09-29 Thread jlist9

I just tried it on another computer and got exactly the same error when
running (below). I think something is broken. I checked the mvn output
in the first run to create helloworld project and didn't see any mentioning
of jetty...

D:\Java\liftweb\workmvn jetty:run
[INFO] Scanning for projects...
[INFO] Searching repository for plugin with prefix: 'jetty'.
[INFO] artifact org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-jetty-plugin: checking
for updates from central
[INFO] 
[ERROR] BUILD ERROR
[INFO] 
[INFO] The plugin 'org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-jetty-plugin' does
not exist or no valid version c
ould be found
[INFO] 
[INFO] For more information, run Maven with the -e switch
[INFO] 
[INFO] Total time:  1 second
[INFO] Finished at: Tue Sep 29 21:16:31 PDT 2009
[INFO] Final Memory: 1M/4M
[INFO] 

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Naftoli Gugenheim naftoli...@gmail.com wrote:

 I had such an issue when it was confused about which version of Jetty. Is 
 there any more detail? Try running with error details enabled (mvn -help 
 should tell you how).

 -
 jlist9jli...@gmail.com wrote:


 Yes, I have a network connection. Maven downloaded some other
 components and the end result was BUILD SUCCESSFUL...

 On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Naftoli Gugenheim naftoli...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

 Do you have a network connection? The idea of maven is that it
 downloads whatever it's missing.

 On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:11 PM, jlist9 jli...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I'm new to Lift. I'm trying to follow the getting started guide to
 build the first simple
 demo.helloworld project. At the end of Maven command output I see
 BUILD SUCCESSFUL.
 However, when I run mvn jetty:run, I get error:

 The plugin 'org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-jetty-plugin' does not
 exist or no valid version could be found

 I wonder if I need to manually install jetty? If so, is there any
 configuration instructions?

 Thanks
 Jack

 


 




 


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