[Lift] Re: How important is AJAX to you?
On 30 Mai, 01:19, Meredith Gregory lgreg.mered...@gmail.com wrote: Frameworks like Lift can alleviate some of the problem, but you really need a good, statically typed language on the client side. A few people are beginning to take this problem on. It'd be great to see a ScalaScript for rich client-side experiences. That's the reason why I really like the GWT approach. You are able to use a statically typed language (Java) and your well know development tools like Eclipse. (Of course it would be nice to code in scala) Martin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Lift group. To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Lift] Re: How important is AJAX to you?
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Jeremy Day jeremy@gmail.com wrote: All, I have a slightly related question. I'm new to the list and a complete newbie to Lift (having only discovered it a couple of days ago), so forgive me for the potentially silly question. Can you use Lift with Flex for the front end, rather than HTML/CSS/javascript? Yes. It tooks about 2 hours of coding when we unified the DHTML and Flash versions of http://buyafeature.com to use the same APIs (it way mostly removing hard-coded HTML from the API handlers.) It was less than an hour when we moved ESME ( http://incubator.apache.org/esme/ ) from serving HTML to serving JSON objects (although at this point, the view is rendered via JavaScript as HTML, but the server doesn't know that.) Jeremy On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Joe Wass j...@folktunefinder.com wrote: This may be heresy on this list, but I'll ask it anyway. A general point for discussion which I'm raising because the Lift Book mentions AJAX early on in the PocketChange app. How important is AJAX and all the associated Web 2.0 stuff to you and to your projects? I'm quite happy without Javascript and AJAX. More often than not they're doing the kind of thing you could just as easily do with traditional technologies. Save for one web-app (Google Mail), I don't think a single site I use has been improved for it. Particular examples are Slashdot and Facebook. Give me good old HTML any day. I've got a few projects in the pipeline and I intend to use Lift for all of them, it looks excellent and from the source I've read very nicely engineered. But I will expressly avoid using anything other than old-fashioned HTML as much as I can, largely because I'm targetting browsers of unknown vintage in less economically developed countries and I'd like to be able to use my own site without cookies or javascript if I want to. Have I missed the point of Lift entirely? Am I in a small minority? Am I crazy? Joe -- Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp Git some: http://github.com/dpp --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Lift group. To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Lift] Re: How important is AJAX to you?
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Joe Wass j...@folktunefinder.com wrote: This may be heresy on this list, but I'll ask it anyway. A general point for discussion which I'm raising because the Lift Book mentions AJAX early on in the PocketChange app. How important is AJAX and all the associated Web 2.0 stuff to you and to your projects? I'm quite happy without Javascript and AJAX. More often than not they're doing the kind of thing you could just as easily do with traditional technologies. Save for one web-app (Google Mail), I don't think a single site I use has been improved for it. Particular examples are Slashdot and Facebook. Give me good old HTML any day. I've got a few projects in the pipeline and I intend to use Lift for all of them, it looks excellent and from the source I've read very nicely engineered. But I will expressly avoid using anything other than old-fashioned HTML as much as I can, largely because I'm targetting browsers of unknown vintage in less economically developed countries and I'd like to be able to use my own site without cookies or javascript if I want to. Have I missed the point of Lift entirely? I think that a key take-away from Lift is the abstraction of the HTTP request/response cycle so that higher level abstractions can happen... basically, freeing the developer to focus on the business task at hand rather than the plumbing of HTTP. This requires state which means cookies. It does not require Ajax. Am I in a small minority? Am I crazy? Joe -- Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp Git some: http://github.com/dpp --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Lift group. To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Lift] Re: How important is AJAX to you?
Appreciate you are a busy man David, but from a community perspective I think it would be awesome if you could pour some of your brain into a whitepaper on this subject your very right, its a key take away and an important part of lifts ³sales pitch² as it were. Cheers, Tim On 29/05/2009 17:00, David Pollak feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com wrote: I think that a key take-away from Lift is the abstraction of the HTTP request/response cycle so that higher level abstractions can happen... basically, freeing the developer to focus on the business task at hand rather than the plumbing of HTTP. This requires state which means cookies. It does not require Ajax. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Lift group. To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Lift] Re: How important is AJAX to you?
You can use Lift perfectly fine without Ajax, javaScript or even cookies. If you're turning off cookies from the container relative paths for links, forms etc. will be provided with JSESSIONID quantity for you so you don't have to do anything. This is otherwise known as URL rewriting. So you can still have the same context semantics but referred from URI not cookies. Br's, Marius On May 29, 7:00 pm, David Pollak feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Joe Wass j...@folktunefinder.com wrote: This may be heresy on this list, but I'll ask it anyway. A general point for discussion which I'm raising because the Lift Book mentions AJAX early on in the PocketChange app. How important is AJAX and all the associated Web 2.0 stuff to you and to your projects? I'm quite happy without Javascript and AJAX. More often than not they're doing the kind of thing you could just as easily do with traditional technologies. Save for one web-app (Google Mail), I don't think a single site I use has been improved for it. Particular examples are Slashdot and Facebook. Give me good old HTML any day. I've got a few projects in the pipeline and I intend to use Lift for all of them, it looks excellent and from the source I've read very nicely engineered. But I will expressly avoid using anything other than old-fashioned HTML as much as I can, largely because I'm targetting browsers of unknown vintage in less economically developed countries and I'd like to be able to use my own site without cookies or javascript if I want to. Have I missed the point of Lift entirely? I think that a key take-away from Lift is the abstraction of the HTTP request/response cycle so that higher level abstractions can happen... basically, freeing the developer to focus on the business task at hand rather than the plumbing of HTTP. This requires state which means cookies. It does not require Ajax. Am I in a small minority? Am I crazy? Joe -- Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890 Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp Git some:http://github.com/dpp --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Lift group. To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Lift] Re: How important is AJAX to you?
On Friday May 29 2009, Joe Wass wrote: ... Have I missed the point of Lift entirely? Am I in a small minority? Am I crazy? Perhaps. Perhaps. Probably not (but who really knows?) Seriously, my interest in Lift (and Grails before it—don't shoot me) is in providing what I call BBIs (browser-based interfaces) as a completely competitive alternative to standard GUIs. Thus AJAX (by any name) is a necessity. If your user base dictates strict page-load-per-interaction designs, that's your call. Only you know your requirements. But I think the bulk of new Web App development henceforward will make ever-increasing use of AJAX techniques. It's why Google is developing Chrome, after all. Joe Randall Schulz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Lift group. To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Lift] Re: How important is AJAX to you?
Lift makes AJAX easy, but Lift has nothing to do with AJAX. Lift makes a lot of things easy. I've built half a dozen sites in Lift so far, with several more in the works, and most of them use no AJAX at all. That said, there is a lot to be said for AJAX when used properly. I think you're way off on that. The problem is (as with pretty much everything else on the Web), it's rarely used properly. Google does it mostly right. Facebook is mostly a mess. Chas. Joe Wass wrote: This may be heresy on this list, but I'll ask it anyway. A general point for discussion which I'm raising because the Lift Book mentions AJAX early on in the PocketChange app. How important is AJAX and all the associated Web 2.0 stuff to you and to your projects? I'm quite happy without Javascript and AJAX. More often than not they're doing the kind of thing you could just as easily do with traditional technologies. Save for one web-app (Google Mail), I don't think a single site I use has been improved for it. Particular examples are Slashdot and Facebook. Give me good old HTML any day. I've got a few projects in the pipeline and I intend to use Lift for all of them, it looks excellent and from the source I've read very nicely engineered. But I will expressly avoid using anything other than old-fashioned HTML as much as I can, largely because I'm targetting browsers of unknown vintage in less economically developed countries and I'd like to be able to use my own site without cookies or javascript if I want to. Have I missed the point of Lift entirely? Am I in a small minority? Am I crazy? Joe --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Lift group. To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Lift] Re: How important is AJAX to you?
Joe, i love questions like this: 'what are the real requirements?' i have no particular interest in technology like AJAX -- except as a means to an end. i need to be able to build sites that are the web's equivalent of CSCW apps from the late 80s/early 90s. In the web apps i'm working on users have an experience of sharing a common space to design and edit complex computational models and large, rich data sets. One can imagine all sorts of technologies to do this on the existing web infrastructure. The real issue is not having to reinvent a bunch of stuff in order to remain focused on the very hard problems of providing the stuff above. AJAX took off. That fact that it got embodied in a bunch of unmaintainable crap like JavaScript -- well i'll ride that wave for a while. Frameworks like Lift can alleviate some of the problem, but you really need a good, statically typed language on the client side. A few people are beginning to take this problem on. It'd be great to see a ScalaScript for rich client-side experiences. Best wishes, --greg On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Charles F. Munat c...@munat.com wrote: Lift makes AJAX easy, but Lift has nothing to do with AJAX. Lift makes a lot of things easy. I've built half a dozen sites in Lift so far, with several more in the works, and most of them use no AJAX at all. That said, there is a lot to be said for AJAX when used properly. I think you're way off on that. The problem is (as with pretty much everything else on the Web), it's rarely used properly. Google does it mostly right. Facebook is mostly a mess. Chas. Joe Wass wrote: This may be heresy on this list, but I'll ask it anyway. A general point for discussion which I'm raising because the Lift Book mentions AJAX early on in the PocketChange app. How important is AJAX and all the associated Web 2.0 stuff to you and to your projects? I'm quite happy without Javascript and AJAX. More often than not they're doing the kind of thing you could just as easily do with traditional technologies. Save for one web-app (Google Mail), I don't think a single site I use has been improved for it. Particular examples are Slashdot and Facebook. Give me good old HTML any day. I've got a few projects in the pipeline and I intend to use Lift for all of them, it looks excellent and from the source I've read very nicely engineered. But I will expressly avoid using anything other than old-fashioned HTML as much as I can, largely because I'm targetting browsers of unknown vintage in less economically developed countries and I'd like to be able to use my own site without cookies or javascript if I want to. Have I missed the point of Lift entirely? Am I in a small minority? Am I crazy? Joe -- L.G. Meredith Managing Partner Biosimilarity LLC 1219 NW 83rd St Seattle, WA 98117 +1 206.650.3740 http://biosimilarity.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Lift group. To post to this group, send email to liftweb@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to liftweb+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/liftweb?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
