[Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-15 Thread __kaveh__
@Naftoli Gugenheim; Thankyou. GAE is not yet our chosen platform; some
others are evaluating Amazon cloud solutions (especially their cloud
MySQL got my eyes). But one thing about GAE is that one do not have to
push so much consideration into account when designing; for later
having easy up/out scaling. At least as a logic routing and web api
provider (some business logic web services), it serves well. But your
first impression is right; the more you work with GAE, the more you
get into trouble! But it is free - at least as long as one is in
developing stage.

Thanks for stax.net. I will have a look.

On Jan 15, 3:20 am, Naftoli Gugenheim naftoli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Lift has no dependency on it's various optional persistence layers. I don't 
 see any advantage in terms of data layer to not using lift.
 But I'd like to question your reason for using GAE. I started a project in 
 Lift for GAE which I soon switched away from GAE. As far as I remember there 
 is no special integration with Google Docs. There is built in integration 
 with your Google account and there is an API to send mail with Gmail, but the 
 Google Docs API is an ordinary Java library wrapping an ordinary XML API that 
 can be used with zero dependency on GAE.
 If there's another reason would you like to share it?
 Also note stax.net, which I believe has free Java hosting, and they have a 
 built in project type for lift.

 -

 __kaveh__kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:

 @David Pollak Thanks for your time and answering me!

 I am evaluating Cloud technologies for a social application - without
 heavy real-time interaction - GAE appealed to me for easy integration
 and interaction with other utilities in Google (like Google Docs which
 is another candidate for us for handling documents). We are basically
 a .NET team; and for reducing out hosting and especially database
 cost; we are evaluating other technologies. On JVM - which can be used
 on GAE (at least to some extend) - I have looked into Clojure and
 Scala.

 Clojure is an elegant language but it is a Lisp and it is dynamic -
 and that but is very real and pragmatic to me. Scala on the other
 hand, is almost simply what we need - that's the best I can tell.
 Again but not because of it's power in concurrent computing, rather
 because of it's EXPRESSIVENESS and EXTENDABILITY and providing rich
 options for tailoring data structures in a static language - traits
 are a real joy to use.

 So there can be a face of Scala without it's concurrent features that
 helps to just step in functional programming land; concurrency will
 soon enough comes onto one's pass.

 Clojure have not a mature and even 1.0 web framework; Scala has Lift -
 which I have not even enough sight to grasp it's elegance, whole - and
 it uses it's model of concurrency. So for cases like many little web
 applications that concurrency is not an issue or for technologies like
 GAE; we should simply fall back to Java?

 Thanks

 @Naftoli Gugenheim I am aware that Lifts runs on GAE ... but without a
 data layer?!!!

 On Jan 14, 7:38 am, David Pollak feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:13 PM, __kaveh__ 
  kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.comwrote:

   Agreed; things like Comet Style request processing; yet Lift model for
   separating concerns and it's powerful template system can really makes
   a complete web application ecosystem on GAE.

  The all of the standard parts of Lift work on GAE except Comet and Mapper.
   Comet doesn't work because of the ban in GAE of creating threads (Actors)
  and Mapper doesn't work because there's no JDBC source on GAE.

  With that being said, I personally think GAE is the worst of all possible
  worlds.  GAE has a severely limited run-time (the idea of not being able to
  have asynchronous messages is a huge limitation).  BigTable is good for a
  limited number of things, but even the most trivial apps (e.g., yet another
  Twitter Clone) is going to require a relational database or some other model
  beyond what BigTable offers.

  GAE nominally scales well, but if you're moving to Twitter-like traffic,
  you're not going to want to be tied to Google's infrastructure... it's just
  too scaring from a business perspective.

  For $10/mo, you can rent a slice at SliceHost or prgmr.com that will run a
  nice app and allow it to scale to hundreds or maybe thousands of users.

  So, if you have an actual need for Lift on GAE for an actual production site
  and Lift is not offering a particular something you need, please tell us
  about it and we'll see about scheduling a fix.

  Thanks,

  David

   On Jan 14, 1:51 am, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:
The problem as far as I know is the GAE sandboxing inhibits most of
what makes lift, lift.

On Jan 14, 8:56 am, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:

 Introduction: I apologize in advanced for I am naive about Scala, Lift
 and elegant design decisions in 

Re: [Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-15 Thread David Pollak
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 1:29 AM, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.comwrote:

 @Naftoli Gugenheim; Thankyou. GAE is not yet our chosen platform; some
 others are evaluating Amazon cloud solutions (especially their cloud
 MySQL got my eyes). But one thing about GAE is that one do not have to
 push so much consideration into account when designing; for later
 having easy up/out scaling.


This is at best only applicable for a certain limited class of applications
(e.g., Blogger).

For any application that has a social graph component, BigTable is going to
fail almost immediately (you'll be storing so much in each row and trying
[and failing] to coordinate multiple writes ['cause you have to update 2
different rows 'cause you have no relational queries, and you will fail
because there are no transactions]).

A nominally scalable MySQL instance will have different limitations.  There
are only so many joins you can do across a cluster.

I've written a piece about social graphs and relational databases:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-esme-dev/200911.mbox/%3ccdbebedf0911301240u31a5878t233cd0aa05a64...@mail.gmail.com%3e

I think Amazon is a great place to host in the beginning.  You should be
able to grow to 50K-100K active users (depending on your app and the depth
of the social graph) on an EC2 cluster with a XL instance running PostgreSQL
(which significantly outperforms MySQL in every way).

But at some point, if you're Twitter or Facebook, you'll outgrow the
relational model.  Designing early for the eventual migration away from the
RDBMS (rather than trying to find an infinitely scalable data store), I
think you will be a lot happier when the Twitter event happens for you.

Thanks,

David


 At least as a logic routing and web api
 provider (some business logic web services), it serves well. But your
 first impression is right; the more you work with GAE, the more you
 get into trouble! But it is free - at least as long as one is in
 developing stage.

 Thanks for stax.net. I will have a look.

 On Jan 15, 3:20 am, Naftoli Gugenheim naftoli...@gmail.com wrote:
  Lift has no dependency on it's various optional persistence layers. I
 don't see any advantage in terms of data layer to not using lift.
  But I'd like to question your reason for using GAE. I started a project
 in Lift for GAE which I soon switched away from GAE. As far as I remember
 there is no special integration with Google Docs. There is built in
 integration with your Google account and there is an API to send mail with
 Gmail, but the Google Docs API is an ordinary Java library wrapping an
 ordinary XML API that can be used with zero dependency on GAE.
  If there's another reason would you like to share it?
  Also note stax.net, which I believe has free Java hosting, and they have
 a built in project type for lift.
 
  -
 
  __kaveh__kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  @David Pollak Thanks for your time and answering me!
 
  I am evaluating Cloud technologies for a social application - without
  heavy real-time interaction - GAE appealed to me for easy integration
  and interaction with other utilities in Google (like Google Docs which
  is another candidate for us for handling documents). We are basically
  a .NET team; and for reducing out hosting and especially database
  cost; we are evaluating other technologies. On JVM - which can be used
  on GAE (at least to some extend) - I have looked into Clojure and
  Scala.
 
  Clojure is an elegant language but it is a Lisp and it is dynamic -
  and that but is very real and pragmatic to me. Scala on the other
  hand, is almost simply what we need - that's the best I can tell.
  Again but not because of it's power in concurrent computing, rather
  because of it's EXPRESSIVENESS and EXTENDABILITY and providing rich
  options for tailoring data structures in a static language - traits
  are a real joy to use.
 
  So there can be a face of Scala without it's concurrent features that
  helps to just step in functional programming land; concurrency will
  soon enough comes onto one's pass.
 
  Clojure have not a mature and even 1.0 web framework; Scala has Lift -
  which I have not even enough sight to grasp it's elegance, whole - and
  it uses it's model of concurrency. So for cases like many little web
  applications that concurrency is not an issue or for technologies like
  GAE; we should simply fall back to Java?
 
  Thanks
 
  @Naftoli Gugenheim I am aware that Lifts runs on GAE ... but without a
  data layer?!!!
 
  On Jan 14, 7:38 am, David Pollak feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:13 PM, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
Agreed; things like Comet Style request processing; yet Lift model
 for
separating concerns and it's powerful template system can really
 makes
a complete web application ecosystem on GAE.
 
   The all of the standard parts of Lift work on GAE except Comet 

[Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-14 Thread __kaveh__
@David Pollak Thanks for your time and answering me!

I am evaluating Cloud technologies for a social application - without
heavy real-time interaction - GAE appealed to me for easy integration
and interaction with other utilities in Google (like Google Docs which
is another candidate for us for handling documents). We are basically
a .NET team; and for reducing out hosting and especially database
cost; we are evaluating other technologies. On JVM - which can be used
on GAE (at least to some extend) - I have looked into Clojure and
Scala.

Clojure is an elegant language but it is a Lisp and it is dynamic -
and that but is very real and pragmatic to me. Scala on the other
hand, is almost simply what we need - that's the best I can tell.
Again but not because of it's power in concurrent computing, rather
because of it's EXPRESSIVENESS and EXTENDABILITY and providing rich
options for tailoring data structures in a static language - traits
are a real joy to use.

So there can be a face of Scala without it's concurrent features that
helps to just step in functional programming land; concurrency will
soon enough comes onto one's pass.

Clojure have not a mature and even 1.0 web framework; Scala has Lift -
which I have not even enough sight to grasp it's elegance, whole - and
it uses it's model of concurrency. So for cases like many little web
applications that concurrency is not an issue or for technologies like
GAE; we should simply fall back to Java?

Thanks

@Naftoli Gugenheim I am aware that Lifts runs on GAE ... but without a
data layer?!!!

On Jan 14, 7:38 am, David Pollak feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com
wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:13 PM, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.comwrote:

  Agreed; things like Comet Style request processing; yet Lift model for
  separating concerns and it's powerful template system can really makes
  a complete web application ecosystem on GAE.

 The all of the standard parts of Lift work on GAE except Comet and Mapper.
  Comet doesn't work because of the ban in GAE of creating threads (Actors)
 and Mapper doesn't work because there's no JDBC source on GAE.

 With that being said, I personally think GAE is the worst of all possible
 worlds.  GAE has a severely limited run-time (the idea of not being able to
 have asynchronous messages is a huge limitation).  BigTable is good for a
 limited number of things, but even the most trivial apps (e.g., yet another
 Twitter Clone) is going to require a relational database or some other model
 beyond what BigTable offers.

 GAE nominally scales well, but if you're moving to Twitter-like traffic,
 you're not going to want to be tied to Google's infrastructure... it's just
 too scaring from a business perspective.

 For $10/mo, you can rent a slice at SliceHost or prgmr.com that will run a
 nice app and allow it to scale to hundreds or maybe thousands of users.

 So, if you have an actual need for Lift on GAE for an actual production site
 and Lift is not offering a particular something you need, please tell us
 about it and we'll see about scheduling a fix.

 Thanks,

 David





  On Jan 14, 1:51 am, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:
   The problem as far as I know is the GAE sandboxing inhibits most of
   what makes lift, lift.

   On Jan 14, 8:56 am, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:

Introduction: I apologize in advanced for I am naive about Scala, Lift
and elegant design decisions in Lift. I am a C#/ASP.NET/Windows
Application developer. I played with Scala and it was the C# I was
looking for! My job is on .NET platform. But for enjoying something
(and maybe put into real use later) Scala and Lift are really nice
choices (IMHO).

Could there be an official GAE (Google App Engine) version of Lift?

It appears that - for some reason I can not figure out; one of them
for sure is elegance - Lift and Scala are attracting to those who want
to use GAE/J. This can be a winning/dominated playground for both of
them (even if we put aside concurrency features in GRE) for those who
want to use GRE/J.

Regards

  --
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 Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
 Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
 Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
 Surf the harmonics
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Re: [Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-14 Thread David Pollak
If you like Scala, you might be best served with Scala and Wicket... I
believe that Wicket is more GAE friendly than Lift.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 2:45 PM, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.comwrote:

 @David Pollak Thanks for your time and answering me!

 I am evaluating Cloud technologies for a social application - without
 heavy real-time interaction - GAE appealed to me for easy integration
 and interaction with other utilities in Google (like Google Docs which
 is another candidate for us for handling documents). We are basically
 a .NET team; and for reducing out hosting and especially database
 cost; we are evaluating other technologies. On JVM - which can be used
 on GAE (at least to some extend) - I have looked into Clojure and
 Scala.

 Clojure is an elegant language but it is a Lisp and it is dynamic -
 and that but is very real and pragmatic to me. Scala on the other
 hand, is almost simply what we need - that's the best I can tell.
 Again but not because of it's power in concurrent computing, rather
 because of it's EXPRESSIVENESS and EXTENDABILITY and providing rich
 options for tailoring data structures in a static language - traits
 are a real joy to use.

 So there can be a face of Scala without it's concurrent features that
 helps to just step in functional programming land; concurrency will
 soon enough comes onto one's pass.

 Clojure have not a mature and even 1.0 web framework; Scala has Lift -
 which I have not even enough sight to grasp it's elegance, whole - and
 it uses it's model of concurrency. So for cases like many little web
 applications that concurrency is not an issue or for technologies like
 GAE; we should simply fall back to Java?

 Thanks

 @Naftoli Gugenheim I am aware that Lifts runs on GAE ... but without a
 data layer?!!!

 On Jan 14, 7:38 am, David Pollak feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:13 PM, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   Agreed; things like Comet Style request processing; yet Lift model for
   separating concerns and it's powerful template system can really makes
   a complete web application ecosystem on GAE.
 
  The all of the standard parts of Lift work on GAE except Comet and
 Mapper.
   Comet doesn't work because of the ban in GAE of creating threads
 (Actors)
  and Mapper doesn't work because there's no JDBC source on GAE.
 
  With that being said, I personally think GAE is the worst of all possible
  worlds.  GAE has a severely limited run-time (the idea of not being able
 to
  have asynchronous messages is a huge limitation).  BigTable is good for a
  limited number of things, but even the most trivial apps (e.g., yet
 another
  Twitter Clone) is going to require a relational database or some other
 model
  beyond what BigTable offers.
 
  GAE nominally scales well, but if you're moving to Twitter-like traffic,
  you're not going to want to be tied to Google's infrastructure... it's
 just
  too scaring from a business perspective.
 
  For $10/mo, you can rent a slice at SliceHost or prgmr.com that will run
 a
  nice app and allow it to scale to hundreds or maybe thousands of users.
 
  So, if you have an actual need for Lift on GAE for an actual production
 site
  and Lift is not offering a particular something you need, please tell us
  about it and we'll see about scheduling a fix.
 
  Thanks,
 
  David
 
 
 
 
 
   On Jan 14, 1:51 am, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:
The problem as far as I know is the GAE sandboxing inhibits most of
what makes lift, lift.
 
On Jan 14, 8:56 am, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Introduction: I apologize in advanced for I am naive about Scala,
 Lift
 and elegant design decisions in Lift. I am a C#/ASP.NET/Windows
 Application developer. I played with Scala and it was the C# I was
 looking for! My job is on .NET platform. But for enjoying something
 (and maybe put into real use later) Scala and Lift are really nice
 choices (IMHO).
 
 Could there be an official GAE (Google App Engine) version of Lift?
 
 It appears that - for some reason I can not figure out; one of them
 for sure is elegance - Lift and Scala are attracting to those who
 want
 to use GAE/J. This can be a winning/dominated playground for both
 of
 them (even if we put aside concurrency features in GRE) for those
 who
 want to use GRE/J.
 
 Regards
 
   --
   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups
   Lift group.
   To post to this group, send email to lift...@googlegroups.com.
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  Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
  Beginning 

Re: [Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-14 Thread Heiko Seeberger
2010/1/14 __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com

So for cases like many little web
 applications that concurrency is not an issue or for technologies like
 GAE; we should simply fall back to Java?


NO!
Go for Scala + Lift!

Heiko

My job: weiglewilczek.com
My blog: heikoseeberger.name
Follow me: twitter.com/hseeberger
OSGi on Scala: scalamodules.org
Lift, the simply functional web framework: liftweb.net
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Re: [Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-14 Thread Naftoli Gugenheim
Lift has no dependency on it's various optional persistence layers. I don't see 
any advantage in terms of data layer to not using lift.
But I'd like to question your reason for using GAE. I started a project in Lift 
for GAE which I soon switched away from GAE. As far as I remember there is no 
special integration with Google Docs. There is built in integration with your 
Google account and there is an API to send mail with Gmail, but the Google Docs 
API is an ordinary Java library wrapping an ordinary XML API that can be used 
with zero dependency on GAE.
If there's another reason would you like to share it?
Also note stax.net, which I believe has free Java hosting, and they have a 
built in project type for lift.

-
__kaveh__kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:

@David Pollak Thanks for your time and answering me!

I am evaluating Cloud technologies for a social application - without
heavy real-time interaction - GAE appealed to me for easy integration
and interaction with other utilities in Google (like Google Docs which
is another candidate for us for handling documents). We are basically
a .NET team; and for reducing out hosting and especially database
cost; we are evaluating other technologies. On JVM - which can be used
on GAE (at least to some extend) - I have looked into Clojure and
Scala.

Clojure is an elegant language but it is a Lisp and it is dynamic -
and that but is very real and pragmatic to me. Scala on the other
hand, is almost simply what we need - that's the best I can tell.
Again but not because of it's power in concurrent computing, rather
because of it's EXPRESSIVENESS and EXTENDABILITY and providing rich
options for tailoring data structures in a static language - traits
are a real joy to use.

So there can be a face of Scala without it's concurrent features that
helps to just step in functional programming land; concurrency will
soon enough comes onto one's pass.

Clojure have not a mature and even 1.0 web framework; Scala has Lift -
which I have not even enough sight to grasp it's elegance, whole - and
it uses it's model of concurrency. So for cases like many little web
applications that concurrency is not an issue or for technologies like
GAE; we should simply fall back to Java?

Thanks

@Naftoli Gugenheim I am aware that Lifts runs on GAE ... but without a
data layer?!!!

On Jan 14, 7:38 am, David Pollak feeder.of.the.be...@gmail.com
wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:13 PM, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.comwrote:

  Agreed; things like Comet Style request processing; yet Lift model for
  separating concerns and it's powerful template system can really makes
  a complete web application ecosystem on GAE.

 The all of the standard parts of Lift work on GAE except Comet and Mapper.
  Comet doesn't work because of the ban in GAE of creating threads (Actors)
 and Mapper doesn't work because there's no JDBC source on GAE.

 With that being said, I personally think GAE is the worst of all possible
 worlds.  GAE has a severely limited run-time (the idea of not being able to
 have asynchronous messages is a huge limitation).  BigTable is good for a
 limited number of things, but even the most trivial apps (e.g., yet another
 Twitter Clone) is going to require a relational database or some other model
 beyond what BigTable offers.

 GAE nominally scales well, but if you're moving to Twitter-like traffic,
 you're not going to want to be tied to Google's infrastructure... it's just
 too scaring from a business perspective.

 For $10/mo, you can rent a slice at SliceHost or prgmr.com that will run a
 nice app and allow it to scale to hundreds or maybe thousands of users.

 So, if you have an actual need for Lift on GAE for an actual production site
 and Lift is not offering a particular something you need, please tell us
 about it and we'll see about scheduling a fix.

 Thanks,

 David





  On Jan 14, 1:51 am, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:
   The problem as far as I know is the GAE sandboxing inhibits most of
   what makes lift, lift.

   On Jan 14, 8:56 am, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:

Introduction: I apologize in advanced for I am naive about Scala, Lift
and elegant design decisions in Lift. I am a C#/ASP.NET/Windows
Application developer. I played with Scala and it was the C# I was
looking for! My job is on .NET platform. But for enjoying something
(and maybe put into real use later) Scala and Lift are really nice
choices (IMHO).

Could there be an official GAE (Google App Engine) version of Lift?

It appears that - for some reason I can not figure out; one of them
for sure is elegance - Lift and Scala are attracting to those who want
to use GAE/J. This can be a winning/dominated playground for both of
them (even if we put aside concurrency features in GRE) for those who
want to use GRE/J.

Regards

  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 

Re: [Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-14 Thread Wilson MacGyver
I just wanted to point out that clojure would be a nonstarter anyway on GAE.
Without threading, you can't use STM as well as some of the killer features of
clojure.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:45 PM, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:
 Clojure is an elegant language but it is a Lisp and it is dynamic -
 and that but is very real and pragmatic to me. Scala on the other
 hand, is almost simply what we need - that's the best I can tell.
 Again but not because of it's power in concurrent computing, rather
 because of it's EXPRESSIVENESS and EXTENDABILITY and providing rich
 options for tailoring data structures in a static language - traits
 are a real joy to use.

-- 
Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum.
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Re: [Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-13 Thread Timothy Perrett
This is correct - many part of lift don't work on GAe... So far, we've  
seen little need for it as the vast majority of users simply want more  
than GAE can offer.


Cheers, Tim

Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Jan 2010, at 22:51, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:


The problem as far as I know is the GAE sandboxing inhibits most of
what makes lift, lift.

On Jan 14, 8:56 am, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:
Introduction: I apologize in advanced for I am naive about Scala,  
Lift

and elegant design decisions in Lift. I am a C#/ASP.NET/Windows
Application developer. I played with Scala and it was the C# I was
looking for! My job is on .NET platform. But for enjoying something
(and maybe put into real use later) Scala and Lift are really nice
choices (IMHO).

Could there be an official GAE (Google App Engine) version of Lift?

It appears that - for some reason I can not figure out; one of them
for sure is elegance - Lift and Scala are attracting to those who  
want

to use GAE/J. This can be a winning/dominated playground for both of
them (even if we put aside concurrency features in GRE) for those who
want to use GRE/J.

Regards

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[Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-13 Thread __kaveh__
Agreed; things like Comet Style request processing; yet Lift model for
separating concerns and it's powerful template system can really makes
a complete web application ecosystem on GAE.

On Jan 14, 1:51 am, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:
 The problem as far as I know is the GAE sandboxing inhibits most of
 what makes lift, lift.

 On Jan 14, 8:56 am, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:

  Introduction: I apologize in advanced for I am naive about Scala, Lift
  and elegant design decisions in Lift. I am a C#/ASP.NET/Windows
  Application developer. I played with Scala and it was the C# I was
  looking for! My job is on .NET platform. But for enjoying something
  (and maybe put into real use later) Scala and Lift are really nice
  choices (IMHO).

  Could there be an official GAE (Google App Engine) version of Lift?

  It appears that - for some reason I can not figure out; one of them
  for sure is elegance - Lift and Scala are attracting to those who want
  to use GAE/J. This can be a winning/dominated playground for both of
  them (even if we put aside concurrency features in GRE) for those who
  want to use GRE/J.

  Regards
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Re: [Lift] Re: Lift - GAE Version

2010-01-13 Thread David Pollak
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 3:13 PM, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.comwrote:

 Agreed; things like Comet Style request processing; yet Lift model for
 separating concerns and it's powerful template system can really makes
 a complete web application ecosystem on GAE.


The all of the standard parts of Lift work on GAE except Comet and Mapper.
 Comet doesn't work because of the ban in GAE of creating threads (Actors)
and Mapper doesn't work because there's no JDBC source on GAE.

With that being said, I personally think GAE is the worst of all possible
worlds.  GAE has a severely limited run-time (the idea of not being able to
have asynchronous messages is a huge limitation).  BigTable is good for a
limited number of things, but even the most trivial apps (e.g., yet another
Twitter Clone) is going to require a relational database or some other model
beyond what BigTable offers.

GAE nominally scales well, but if you're moving to Twitter-like traffic,
you're not going to want to be tied to Google's infrastructure... it's just
too scaring from a business perspective.

For $10/mo, you can rent a slice at SliceHost or prgmr.com that will run a
nice app and allow it to scale to hundreds or maybe thousands of users.

So, if you have an actual need for Lift on GAE for an actual production site
and Lift is not offering a particular something you need, please tell us
about it and we'll see about scheduling a fix.

Thanks,

David



 On Jan 14, 1:51 am, Randinn rand...@gmail.com wrote:
  The problem as far as I know is the GAE sandboxing inhibits most of
  what makes lift, lift.
 
  On Jan 14, 8:56 am, __kaveh__ kaveh.shahbaz...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Introduction: I apologize in advanced for I am naive about Scala, Lift
   and elegant design decisions in Lift. I am a C#/ASP.NET/Windows
   Application developer. I played with Scala and it was the C# I was
   looking for! My job is on .NET platform. But for enjoying something
   (and maybe put into real use later) Scala and Lift are really nice
   choices (IMHO).
 
   Could there be an official GAE (Google App Engine) version of Lift?
 
   It appears that - for some reason I can not figure out; one of them
   for sure is elegance - Lift and Scala are attracting to those who want
   to use GAE/J. This can be a winning/dominated playground for both of
   them (even if we put aside concurrency features in GRE) for those who
   want to use GRE/J.
 
   Regards

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