Re: [Lightning-dev] Two-party eltoo w/ punishment

2023-01-05 Thread Anthony Towns
On Thu, Jan 05, 2023 at 06:59:42PM -0500, Antoine Riard wrote: > > A simple advantage to breaking the symmetry is that if A does a unilateral > > close, then B can immediately confirm that closure releasing all funds > > for both parties. Without breaking the symmetry, you can't distinguish > >

Re: [Lightning-dev] Two-party eltoo w/ punishment

2023-01-05 Thread Antoine Riard
Hi AJ, > Chia uses different terminology to bitcoin; "puzzle" is just what we call > "scriptPubKey" in bitcoin, more or less. Since its scripting capabilities > are pretty powerful, you can rig up a TLUV/OP_EVICT like mechanism, but > for a two-party setup, in practice I think that mostly just

Re: [Lightning-dev] Two-party eltoo w/ punishment

2022-12-12 Thread Antoine Riard
Hi Greg, > Feel free to assume that we've worked around mempool pinning for all of > these discussions, otherwise we're pretty hosed regardless. I'm implicitly > assuming V3+ephemeral anchors, which disallows batched bumps, for example. > You'll need to give some room for "slippage", but I think

Re: [Lightning-dev] Two-party eltoo w/ punishment

2022-12-08 Thread Anthony Towns
On Thu, Dec 08, 2022 at 02:14:06PM -0500, Antoine Riard wrote: > > - 2022-10-21, eltoo/chia: > https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/1583122833932099585 > On the eltoo/chia variant, from my (quick) understanding, the main > innovation aimed for is I'd say the main innovation aimed for is just

Re: [Lightning-dev] Two-party eltoo w/ punishment

2022-12-08 Thread Greg Sanders
Antoine, > While the 2*to_self_delay sounds the maximum time delay in the state publication scenario where the cheating counterparty publishes a old state then the honest counterparty publishes the latest one, there could be the case where the cheating counterparty broadcast chain of old states,

Re: [Lightning-dev] Two-party eltoo w/ punishment

2022-12-08 Thread Antoine Riard
Hi AJ, The eltoo irc channel is ##eltoo on Libera chat. > - 2022-10-21, eltoo/chia: https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/1583122833932099585 On the eltoo/chia variant, from my (quick) understanding, the main innovation aimed for is the limitation of the publication of eltoo states more than

[Lightning-dev] Two-party eltoo w/ punishment

2022-12-06 Thread Anthony Towns
Hi all, On the eltoo irc channel we discussed optimising eltoo for the 2-party scenario; figured it was probably worth repeating that here. This is similar to: - 2018-07-18, simplified eltoo: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2018-July/001363.html - 2021-09-17, IID