Re: [Lightning-dev] New form of 51% attack via lightning's revocation system possible?

2018-03-13 Thread ZmnSCPxj via Lightning-dev
Good morning Rene, The attack is possible but requires the combination of the below: 1. A large 51% miner. 2. Many channels share-owned by the miner. 3. Large capacities in each channel share-owned by the miner. Individual nodes can protect against these as below: 1. Contributing hashpower

Re: [Lightning-dev] New form of 51% attack via lightning's revocation system possible?

2018-03-13 Thread Christian Decker
Good example, even if rather hard to setup :-) What I meant with the attack being identical is that we can replay the entire attack on-chain, without needing Lightning in the first place, i.e., the attacker needed to own the funds he is going to steal at some time, whether that is as part of a

Re: [Lightning-dev] New form of 51% attack via lightning's revocation system possible?

2018-03-13 Thread Anthony Towns
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 06:07:48PM +0100, René Pickhardt via Lightning-dev wrote: > Hey Christian, > I agree with you on almost anything you said. however I disagree that in the > lightning case it produces just another double spending. I wish to to > emphasize > on my statement that the in the

Re: [Lightning-dev] New form of 51% attack via lightning's revocation system possible?

2018-03-13 Thread René Pickhardt via Lightning-dev
Hey Christian, I agree with you on almost anything you said. however I disagree that in the lightning case it produces just another double spending. I wish to to emphasize on my statement that the in the case with lightning such a 51% attack can steal way more BTC than double spending my own

Re: [Lightning-dev] New form of 51% attack via lightning's revocation system possible?

2018-03-13 Thread Christian Decker
Hi René, very good question. I think the simple answer is that this is exactly the reason why not having a participant in the network that can 51% attack over a prolonged period is one of the base assumptions in Lightning. These attacks are deadly to all blockchains, and we are certainly no